Battery Hell ! Could really use some advice ...

[Clan Graham]

Yuck ... where to even start. please allow me to apologize completely SternWake. You are NOT responsible for my success or failure AT ALL. I never meant to infer that YOU were going to be responsible for my liability in any way either. I ONLY MEANT THAT I HAVE TO CHOOSE A PERCEIVED SINGLE BEST WAY FOR MY NEEDS, AND GO WITH IT. And your kind willingness to so very freely offer up information, and type very well written and easy to understand information made me decide to pick you for obtaining this information. ( Most importantly though, is that MOST of my own research has led me to see that what you have been telling me seems to be echoed the most often in the information I am finding out for myself while researching. Suggesting to me that YOU seem to have a pretty good handle in what many others are also saying.
So please ... feel no pressure. I am responsible for my own well being and welfare bud

Oh man ... I may get in trouble for saying this now .... But, it is the recharging at certain rates, and how to make an entire bus run off of a 12v system, and how to know when and how long to charge them that I do not understand. I was not thinking very well when I posted that I know nothing at all. I thought it may be best to start with a clean slate ... but I accidentally misled you without meaning to. My fault.

I completely understand wiring, soldering, crimping, and using a multimeter. I installed car stereos at a high level for over 25 years. Go ahead and shoot me now for witholding this. LOL

But we never had to worry about discharge rates, and charging properly in car stereo. If we did not have enough electrical power to run a system, we put in a bigger alternator or I would install a fast reacting specialty battery near the amplifiers to act as a huge capacitor. But while electrical basics are the same, setting up and using an electrical system for LIVING in full time plays by it's own set of rules that I do not know anything about yet. And this is the important part right here : You talk about the Newbie learning curve, and how it can be a very expensive learning process for Newbies .... AND THIS IS SOMETHING I CAN NOT AFFORD AT ALL. This is because our future income is PERFECTLY unknown and uncertain. Once this bus is finished to the point of comfortably livable, we will have ZERO income until my wife can finally get awarded Disability for her terminal disease. If I mess something up as expensive as a bank of batteries, I may not have electricity for many months.

So now ... let's move ahead with the basics here ...

#1 - I can take ANY and all measurements needed with my multimeter ( yes, i have several LOL )

#2 - If two Group 24 Marine batteries are a better option, NO problem at all. I can easily wire them in parallel.

#3 - No problem on the GC batteries ... That simply IS what I will use for my house bank. They are the most resilient to overdischarge, and the most tolerant of improper recharge LOL.

#4 - I love the idea of the 3 way switch. I know it depends on me ALWAYS placing the switch in the proper place ... and i can easily do this without forgetting. My batteries and bus depends on me not forgetting.

#5 - You said "These won't be as difficult to replace when you almost inevitably kill them by running them too low and not recharging them properly" .... And it is THIS I need help learning. How NOT to ruin them. I need to learn how not to run them too low, and how to properly charge them up.

And lastly ... as far as removing all house loads from the starting battery. Unless I am mistaken, the ONLY house loads that are currently on the battery are the overhead lights, which I can easily remove. The rest of the electrical I DO plan on using the house batteries only.

I hope this makes it easier for you to make suggestions now, and just wish I would have taken the time to explain my skills, knowledge, and lack thereof better from the start.

So in summary ... What I really need help with is learning about when and how to recharge, how to mainain any batteries which need it, and how to set up the system to switch between the two. Also, are there any particular GC batteries which you recommend ?

Thanks SternWake, and please feel zero pressure or responsibility.

 

[SternWake]

The 25 years of installing stereo's would have been nice to know

Basically battery living newbies kill them by overestimating the actual electrical capacity stored in a battery.

They kill them by acting like the alternator is some instant magical super duper battery charger which can do any and everything

They kill them by drawing the battery much too low, and think 30 minutes of recharging via the super duper magical alternator means they can continue their battery abusing proclivities.

Basically lead acid batteries want to live their entire lifespans fully charged. AGM batteries are Disincluded from the following descriptoins

Starting batteries get all petulant and whiny when drawn below 95%
Marine batteries are Starting batteries which compromise some CCA in favor of handling the occassional deeper discharge.
Deep cycle batteries are the lumbering heavyweight. They are't designed to crank a motor, but give out their power in lesser amounts for longer.

The starting battery, if slowly drawn down to 20%, and then recharged to 100%, will give about a dozen such cycles before plate material starts shedding and collecting on the bottom of the battery. Once the shedded material grows tall enough, it shorts out that cell, and the battery is toast.

The marine battery has thicker plates and still a respectable CCA rating and can handle being brought down to 50%, but the marine battery is just a dual purpose battery, a compromise between a deep cycle battery and a starting battery, excelling at neither duty. It is quite likely that some battert resellers slap on a Marine sticker onto a starting battery and reduce the warranty and raise the price.

Beware of marketing.

The Deep cycle battery is designed to be cycled daily. It too wants to be brought back upto 100% after a discharge, but it can handle being brought down to 20%, and it will if promptly and properly recharged do this several hundred times before capacity loss becomes noticeable

Now Proper recharging is the issue.

When recharging, the last 20% can take twice as long as going from 50 to 80%. When Using a generator to recharge, well taking the batteries back upto 100%, is a waste of gas, as it can take all day.

Many who live off battery and generator do what is referred to as the 50 to 90's.

Draw the batteries down to 50%, fire up the generator and the high amp converter charger and pump them full replenishing current until they are at about 90% state of charge. Some just do 50 to 80. Some have solar and hope the solar can do the low and slow thing after a generator blast brings them into the 85%+ range.

The thing is, not returning the batteries to their maximum specific gravity, a true 100% once per week, then 90% becomes the new maximum capacity. Do 50 to 90's for another week without taking them back up to their maximum specific gravity, and again they have lost more usable capacity, and if you keep using the same amount of electricity, you start drawing the batteries lower and lower each discharge cycle, and finally the batteries are just at a fraction of their original ability to store energy, and there you are still needing them to perform as they did the first night, when the batteries were new.

Golf cart batteries are the most tolerant of this abuse, but no battery is immune from it.

So after treating the batteries like this for a month they are like a beaten dog cowering in the corner. You take pity on them and decide to try and restore them. You find an electrical outlet to plug into and let the converter do its thing for a few days, and all is hunkey dory right?

If only. If you were to take hydrometer readings on each cell of each battery, you would find them all over the place, and few of them would really be up back in the 1.275+ range. (with new batteries one should establish a baseline specific gravity for each battery, each cell for later comparison)

To bring the SG back up to the max levels, an equalization cycle is needed. This is an intentional overcharge bringing the batteries up into the mid 15 volt range. Such voltages can damage some electronics, and the batteries should not be under any load when attempting an EQ cycle. They will aggressively bubble during such voltages. Sparks should be kept well away. One should not do an EQ for longer than necessary. If the batteries exceed 120f, stop.

Now this presumes you have a charger capable of an EQ cycle, this intentional overcharge. Converters do not do this. They might have a destratification function which raises the voltage in the mid 14's every 18 hours from the mid 13's, but only when left plugged into the grid.

So how does one do an EQ cycle, and how often? well US battery recommends every 30 days when cycled daily. How to do it? with a regular car charger which claims to have such a function.
or an old school manual charger left on for log enough.

An eq function requires babysitting. it might require doing only 2 batteries at once, requiring disconnecting some battery interconnect cabling. It requires time and effort and in general is a PITA.

but if one is trying to get the maximum service life and the best performance from their batteries through out that lifespan, it is necessary.

Is it worth all the effort, compared to just replacing the battery bank more often? hard to say. It is a personal thing.

So how do you know how much you have drawn from a set of batteries? Some will say just look at their voltage, and this is correct, but only on a battery which has not seen charging or discharging current for several hours. A hydrometer can tell you. An amp hour counter can tell you. After much experience using both, then a simple voltage reading can clue you in as to when you are in the 50% range, while still under load.

Amp hour counters are great tools, but add more money.

So you see, that this living from batteries is not just a simple charge and discharge and repeat without worry. One can choose to not worry, but that person will be replacing batteries more often, but one needs to put a price on worrying, and the gas required to power a generator to return the batteries to 100% weekly.

YOu only rent batteries. how long they last is entirely dependent on their treatment, and the best cared for batteries are still going to give up the ghost at some point. The effort required to care for them the best is simply not worth the effort to many, and many more just choose to remain ignorant of the methods required for best service, and just get all PO'd when it is time to replace and blame the product rather than their own ignorance.

I applaud you for wanting to know how to best treat them, but you will need to draw some line in the sand as to how far you are willing to go to get the ultimate lifespan from them.

It can be cathartic to just shrug the shoulders and say it is what it is, and start making some calls as to who can sell you a new battery bank and for what price.

It can be super stressful always worrying about squeezing in that last 10% into the batteries to get that extra years worth of cycles out of them.

If one is anal retentive and has all the tools to measure the batteries throughout their lifespan, then one will not be caught off guard when they fail to meet one's needs. There are threads all over the net by those who freak out when their batteries no longer meet their needs. They assume there is a problem with the recharging system , or point to the quality and cost and brand name of the battery and declare it just should not be, but the blame lays squarely with the battery abuser.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_images/charging_instruction_2011_3.pdf

As far as which batteries to buy, it depends on your area.

if you are not going to every cycle the engine starting battery, then a dedicated starting battery will have the highest CCA ratings, and likely the longest warranty too, as well as being the cheapest.

For the 6v GC batteries, sometimes a golf course can add to their order and get them for you for cheaper. Sam's club and Costco just relabel EastPenn/Deka or Crown or USbattery 6v GC220 batteries. Be aware of the marketing involved and the shiny sticker might be the most cost dense portion of the battery.

Trojan t 105's are kind of the benchmark 6v battery. USBattery claims their battery has a longer cycle life.

http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=4a39005c1e7213bda8002e195&id=b3e46924cc

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_pdfs.html


Knowing how much energy you are taking from the batteries is great to know.

http://www.bogartengineering.com/products/TriMetric

http://www.amazon.com/High-Precision-Power-Meter-Analyzer/dp/B00C596UIA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

limited^^^ only counts current in one direction, and only 64 amp hours worth.

http://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/

http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html

Read read read.

 

[compassrose]

Sounds like your batteries died and then got too cold or froze.

This is just our experience with batteries....

We used to own an Eagle 05. It was a highway coach that had two monster 8D cranking batteries. Imagine our surprise when we were told that we only needed a single battery. So we bought a battery from Walmart (MAXX-75N). Worked great. Saved LOTS of money.

For the Blue Bird, we use a Walmart Everstart . It currently doubles as our starting battery and the house battery. It has no problems starting the big diesel engine on our bus even though I have been told repeatedly that it won't crank our engine. We got rid of the two 8D monsters that came in the bus (they were dead). We will eventually get 3 or 4 deep cycle marine batteries to use as starter/house batteries (golf cart batteries will not fit in our battery bin). Because we rarely move our bus, we can't see having special batteries. The marine batteries will easily start the bus as well as power our 12vDC water pump and the DC-2-AC inverters. Our last deep cycle WalMart marine battery we bought to use as the house battery for the vintage class c (with a vintage converter/charger) lasted 6 years. My daughter replaced before realizing that she had a loose wire and it really wasn't the battery.

We use a smart charger from progressive dynamics to keep the house/starter battery up. We bought this particular battery in 2009 to bring the bus out west and then removed the battery to use on our food cart (charged it once a week). We also used this same battery to crank the bus once a month (at which point the battery was charged up).

 

[AltTransBikes]

Sternwake, great info, great resource, appreciate it, thanks.

 

[karl]

Sternwake, you have finally made the light come on for this old boy, have read lots, but your extensive, detailed, explanations were the key to it all making sense to me.
Great info.
Thanks!!!

 

[highdesertranger]

excellent write up sternwake. highdesertranger

 

[Clan Graham]

OMG at what I do not know, which I need to know. I thank you so much for the roadmap. But seeing just how difficult this is going to be, I am going to go cry a moment ....

 

[SternWake]

Just get the biggest converter charger that your generator will power. Wire it close to the batteries over fat cable, and let it rip.

Run some Fat cable from alternator (+) stud to the Ignition stud on the 3 way battery switch(fused to protect cable) to maximize charging when driving. Don't forget fat ground cables with solid terminations.

If there is no solar, and no grid power to plug in once monthly, preferably more often, for a 2 days or so, days then resign yourself to replacing batteries more often. Nothing else to do. Those are your limiting factors. You might get a year and a half out of a set versus 3. Or 3 years instead of 5. Spread out the cost over their timespan makes a little easier.


It is easier to use less electricity, than make it, and efforts should be made not to draw the bank too low. Never lower than 20%. The deeper the cycle, the less total cycles available.

Install a low draw voltmeter that is reading voltage at the battery terminals on the house bank. Watch it.

Watch it drop under high loads, watch it under lower loads. When it drops below 11.8 under low loads(4to 5 amps), time to recharge. Don't leave it at 11.8 or less for days. That's batterycide.

The longer you leave them low, the longer you should leave the generator running to stuff as much as you can tolerate into them when you do fire it up.

A DC clamp on Meter is a great tool. Hook it over one wire, not both, and it will measure the current flowing through it.

When 6 GC batteries are accepting only about 10 amps from a 60 amp converter, they are likely in the 85 to 90% range.

If you max out your generator with a big converter, you will not be able to run other AC items until the batteries start refilling and resisting the charging current and require less from the generator.

Firing up the generator for huge loads like the microwave or Hair dryer, rather than using the inverter will go a huge way toward battery longevity. These huge loads for a long time really beat up the battery bank, especially if the bank is already low. If the engine does not require huge amounts of cranking to start, consider running the engine during heavy loads like the microwave.

I can't really imagine having a microwave when living off battery power. Many do it , but I just use propane for all such tasks.

Amazing how easy it is to get by with less. So much easier then making sure you have enough electrons flowing to transfer all stick and brick luxuries to a box on wheels

 

[Zil]

Lots of good information to sort. Good job from sternwake. I check in with recommended 6 volt GC batteries from Sam's as the only first choice to build a house bank. later after experience other batteries could be used. Your alternator will never fully charge the house bank, so a separate charging means is needed. It is a good idea to keep your starting battery off the house loads. You only need the size starting battery thet will handle the engine. What do you use to jump the thing? Buss and heavy trucks have redundant battery capacity for safety and x dependability. Our emergency generators had 24 volt starters with two large 12 volt batteries. The others had 12 volt starters with one large battery.
Here is a good link to find other info with more links in the thread. Keep you up on cold winter nights reading.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/

 

[Clan Graham]

Ok SternWake and Zil ... your last two posts makes me feel MUCH better now. The deep and well written info you wrote should be stickied Stern ... and the way you broke it down in an easier to understand Newbie format is so very appreciated as well ! whew !

You say "Just get the biggest converter charger that your generator will power. Wire it close to the batteries over fat cable, and let it rip.

Run some Fat cable from alternator (+) stud to the Ignition stud on the 3 way battery switch(fused to protect cable) to maximize charging when driving. Don't forget fat ground cables with solid terminations.

If there is no solar, and no grid power to plug in once monthly, preferably more often, for a 2 days or so, days then resign yourself to replacing batteries more often. Nothing else to do. Those are your limiting factors. You might get a year and a half out of a set versus 3. Or 3 years instead of 5. Spread out the cost over their timespan makes a little easier."

ALL of this I can easily do ... Including this guys : I CAN get to electricity for recharging once per month easily.

"It is easier to use less electricity, than make it, and efforts should be made not to draw the bank too low. Never lower than 20%. The deeper the cycle, the less total cycles available."

As far as using less electricity ... Here is the way we PLAN to use electricity in our bus : We plan on using the 12 overhead lights w for when we have company, or are cleaning and need them. These have all now been replaced with LED bulbs for higher efficiency. We will augment these with AA battery operated LED puck lights for reading over our shoulder. A couple of LED lanterns will round out our lights.
We will also plug in our camera, cell phone, and tablet occasionally for recharging. We will have a 1500 watt espresso maker that is only used ONCE per day, but I will switch on the generator while that is being powered up. We will have some sort of constant running 12 volt refrigerator also. But other than this, we don't plan on having any more electrical needs for a while. I think this IS VERY important, because it appears as if we will not be using THAT much electricity.

"Install a low draw voltmeter that is reading voltage at the battery terminals on the house bank. Watch it.

Watch it drop under high loads, watch it under lower loads. When it drops below 11.8 under low loads(4to 5 amps), time to recharge. Don't leave it at 11.8 or less for days. That's batterycide."

FULLY understood and doable.

"
Install a low draw voltmeter that is reading voltage at the battery terminals on the house bank. Watch it.

Watch it drop under high loads, watch it under lower loads. When it drops below 11.8 under low loads(4to 5 amps), time to recharge. Don't leave it at 11.8 or less for days. That's batterycide.

The longer you leave them low, the longer you should leave the generator running to stuff as much as you can tolerate into them when you do fire it up.

A DC clamp on Meter is a great tool. Hook it over one wire, not both, and it will measure the current flowing through it.

When 6 GC batteries are accepting only about 10 amps from a 60 amp converter, they are likely in the 85 to 90% range.

If you max out your generator with a big converter, you will not be able to run other AC items until the batteries start refilling and resisting the charging current and require less from the generator.

Firing up the generator for huge loads like the microwave or Hair dryer, rather than using the inverter will go a huge way toward battery longevity. These huge loads for a long time really beat up the battery bank, especially if the bank is already low. If the engine does not require huge amounts of cranking to start, consider running the engine during heavy loads like the microwave."

YES !!! This is the kind of information I need. THIS I CAN DO GUYS !

MY HOUSE AND STARTING BATTERIES WILL BE ISOLATED WITH A SWITCH

And as far as getting the largest battery charger my generator will handle ... I am getting the 2000w Honda. So any suggestions on the charger for this particular generator ?

---

Unless someone warns me differently, I am buying two of these as my Starting batteries : http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...17-p?searchTerm=marine+battery&zoneAssigned=1

And I guess six of these as my house batteries : http://www.solar-electric.com/cr225am6vode.html?gclid=CNTC6Lz6hbsCFSEV7AodvmkArw

---

I mentioned in earler threads that we would also have a LED TV and Playstation ... These will ONLY be used when the generator is turned on.

---

"When 6 GC batteries are accepting only about 10 amps from a 60 amp converter, they are likely in the 85 to 90% range."


Ok ... but aren't I supposed to keep charging them to 100% if possible, or is this the 50-90 plan you were talking about ?

 

[SternWake]

I use a Bialetti Espresso maker. Uses no Electricity. I just put regular coffee grounds into it.

Recharging with the generator, well, it becomes a waste of gas when trying to top up the batteries as they accept very little current in the last 10% or so. It might require 5% or less of the generators ability, so runing it in the hopes of achieving 100% time and again will cost more in gas for the extended lifespan of the batteries, than getting new batteries earlier.

I think the Honda 2000 watt gennys are capable of 1600 watts continuous.

Powermax converters are Power factor corrected and a 100 amp converter can run on a regular 15 amp household outlet where as a 55 amp Iota requires a 20 amp IIRC.

Powermax converters have a strange charging profile that drops to 13.6 once 14.4 is reached though where as iota and PD will hold 14.4 or higher for longer. I can't really say which converter will best max out that honda 2000.

There is certainly the possibility of too much battery. Very shallow cycles, under 5%, on true deep cycle batteries are said to be detrimental.

6 GC's might be too much. They will allow you to go longer before abslutely needing to fire up the generator, but if it takes days before they reach the 11.8 under load figure, then it might be better to use less battery in the long run, as sitting when depleted is what is hardest on a battery. The lonnger and the lower a battery sits depleted the more apt it is to lose capacity, and requiring longer and more vigorous attempts to return all the cells back up to their max Specific gravity when one does have access to grid power, and enough time in which to do so.

These times when one does have grid power are to be used to try and stuff the batteries full, almost like a reset. If not verifying with a Hydrometer and just hoping plugging in for a few days is enough, well it is doubtful the batteries are indeed truly restored to their maximum capability. Equilzation should be attempted on those batteries whose cells vary widely in SG, and this is where having a chart, a record of what the cells read when new and fully charged, and what they read in each and every subsequent attempt to equalize will pay off. If a cell always read low even when new, there is no point in overcharging it in an attempt to bring it up in line with the others.

EQ cycles are hard on batteries as it is an intentional overcharge, so while necessary, they shold not be done more than necessary, or for longer than necessary

A good glass bodied turkey baster style temperature compensated Hydrometer is recommended. Make sure no bubbles stick to the float. Wear clothes you do not care about or wool, use eye protection, and having some baking soda mixed with water is a good precaution for neutralizing Acid, just do not get any inside the battery.

Crown makes good batteries. My local battery distributor was relabelling Crown batteries. They were a little surprised when I called them back and yelled at them for relabelling a marine battery and telling me it was a true deep cycle. I meaasured the capacity and determined it was well short of the claimed 130 amp hours, and all they could sat was that a marine battery is a deep cycle battery, which of course made me madder and madder until they put the manager on. No way a 54 pound battery has 130 amp hours. It was a bait and switch and they got caught. I also talked with a Crown representative who said he was going to make sure they got the correct literature and were not selling their marine batteries as true deep cycle batteries, and also told me it was not an intentional bait and switch, bla bla bla.

I returned that marine battery for a USbattery which weighed 10 pounds more. Same exact case size.

Advanced Auto has excellent online discount codes that will apply to batteries, like 20%.

Perhaps Marine batteries might be more resistant to vibrations than regular starting batteries, but if it is known the battery to be used to start the engine is never going to be cycled, I suspect Starting batteries will be cheaper and proveide more CCA. I think using a marine battery as a starting battery is also a compromise. One thinks the 'marine' imparts ruggedness and pays more for it, when if indeed a marine battery, one which will never be cycled, one is paying more for less CCA.

Okay, time to go make wood dust.

 

[Clan Graham]

Ok , yep ... I am confused again. I thought it was YOU who had told me to get the Marine batteries LOL. Two of them total 1600 CCA .... So I am lost as to which starting battery will provide me with THAT many CCAs . while not costing over the $180 price of two of the Marine batteries ?

And you have TOTALLY lost me on the battery charger now .... What about a 45 amp Iota then ?

I can always go with 4 GC batteries .... I thought 6 would be better. So do you think the 4 GC batteries at 880 amp hours will last long enough with my particular electrical needs, without having to recharge too often ?

 

[SternWake]

I'm presenting options.

2 24 marines in parallel will have more than enough CCA.

You might save a few bucks and have a few more CCA's with Starting batteries.

Marine batteries have automotive posts as well as threaded studs which can make wiring easier.

Starting batteries might have longer warranties.
Shop around and decide for yourself.

I'm pretty sure, not 100% sure, the Honda 2000 can power an Iota 45.

I own no generator never plan to, and am still converter shopping myself, but I want my converter to be able to plug into a household 15 amp receptacle.

I can't pretend to understand the whole power factor reason some higher amp converters like Powermax 100 amp converter can use a 15 amp receptacle while the Iota is limited to the 45 amp model for a 15 amp receptacle and the progressive dynamics can do 60 amps

There are hundreds of pages of threads on other RV forums about which converter is most effective. My eyes cross when reading them all and all the various opinions and the human tendency to get others to agree with them to justify their purchase.

4 GC batteries will have about 460 amp hours. with 6 volts you don't add the A/H. One pair of GCs has about 232 a/h, 2 pair 464. And remember you are not planning on using the total capacity, You are aiming to use half and recharge at 50%. 20% is kind of a the maximum you ever want to take the batteries down to, and preferably to go down that low, less often

 

[Zil]

(post #30) You can get the equivalent 6 volt GC battery from sam's club for half that cost. I can't comment on the starter battery. But I would shop Wall Mart as return is easy in USA. Or sear's.

 

[Clan Graham]

I'm presenting options.

2 24 marines in parallel will have more than enough CCA.

You might save a few bucks and have a few more CCA's with Starting batteries.

Marine batteries have automotive posts as well as threaded studs which can make wiring easier.

Starting batteries might have longer warranties.
Shop around and decide for yourself.

Wow again ! LOL This all comes down to just ONE thing then. Simply answer this one question if you will ... For a starting battery, should I go sealed or regular battery ? I will make my choice from this information.

I'm pretty sure, not 100% sure, the Honda 2000 can power an Iota 45.

I will try and call Wind and Sun, or some distributor, and see what they say.

I can't pretend to understand the whole power factor reason some higher amp converters like Powermax 100 amp converter can use a 15 amp receptacle while the Iota is limited to the 45 amp model for a 15 amp receptacle and the progressive dynamics can do 60 amps

There are hundreds of pages of threads on other RV forums about which converter is most effective. My eyes cross when reading them all and all the various opinions and the human tendency to get others to agree with them to justify their purchase.

Let's be real straight up here ... I am a crippled and unhealthy, old man. Who is doing my bus conversion all by myself, without help. And in the very worst conditions ( ie. the electrical outlet I have to use is 200 yards away. I have to drive back and forth to make cuts. My Cordless drill is stuck in California ) , and so on. The truth ? I simply do NOT have the time to do the research I so badly need to do, and convert this bus at the same time. IT WILL BE YEARS BEFORE I KNOW WHAT YOU DO NOW. Just no way around that. I am going to have to try and learn on the go. And I intend no-one feel any rsponsibility or pressure. ANY good advice or recommendations you can make to me WILL be of the utmost importance to me. At this point in time, I NEED a simple plan and product recommendations. My one known fact ? The generator will be the Honda EU2000. I don't have a clue on the charger or batteries yet.

4 GC batteries will have about 460 amp hours. with 6 volts you don't add the A/H. One pair of GCs has about 232 a/h, 2 pair 464. And remember you are not planning on using the total capacity, You are aiming to use half and recharge at 50%. 20% is kind of a the maximum you ever want to take the batteries down to, and preferably to go down that low, less often

Uhhh ... I appreciate this MUST KNOW information that I did not know LOL. Sooo now, seeing as the above quoted is so, should I still go with only 4 GC batteries, or should I make it 6 GC batteries instead ?


And lastly ... THANK YOU EVERYONE who is contributing. My wife and I are most thankful. We hope to meet some of you one day if ever possible.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Been following and sent link to a friend. Loads of info here to consider.
Like a good "who done it", I can't wait to see if the butler really did it

We can attest to WalMart's pricing, service, and replacement of their starting and marine batteries, plus them being all over the country. We've used them in many vehicles and a few boats and thrashed the dickins out of several offroad & camping.
Don't look to them for GCs tho.

Ok, back to reading for me

 

[SternWake]

Got some feelers out on the biggest converter for the Honda 2000.

Just get the Marine batteries you linked to, and shop around locally for whatever 6v GC batteries you can get. I would NOT pay to have batteries shipped to me. GC batteries weigh 62 to 68 LBs each.

Sounds like that generator could come in handy now, powering those power tools rather than have a 400 yard commute to cut a board....

 

[Clan Graham]

Generator ? Oh man don't remind me. If I only had the $1000 at this time LOL.

I just thought of something spooky ... Where in the world am I going to put all of these batteries, generator, and charger .... while keeping all of the leads as short as possible ? Having a 32 foot bus, instead of the 40 footer, means we have a LOT less underneath space in back by the motor.

Any chance the charger or cranking batteries can go under the 2 x 4 and plywood bed frame, inside the bus ? This would let me keep the leads really short.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Any chance the charger or cranking batteries can go under the 2 x 4 and plywood bed frame, inside the bus ? This would let me keep the leads really short.

Short leads are good. But remember that you are going to have to have regular access to any batteries you put under your bed. You will have to design your bed to make this easy to do.

Regards
John

 

[SternWake]

Ok The honda 2000 is rated for 1600 continuous

The powermax PM4 100 PFC is power factor corrected and claims to use 1440 watts and will initially hit the 3 pairs of GC batteries with 100 amps. Giving you a 120 watt buffer. If at higher elevations the generator is less capable than at sea level. Keep the honda's Eco throttle off for the first half hour if the batteries are depleted.

http://www.powermaxconverters.com/pm412volt.html

http://www.bestconverter.com/PowerM...tage-ConverterCharger_p_472.html#.UqJ7HtJDvcw



If you can afford 3 pairs of GC batts, get 3 pair of GC batts all at once. Do not get two pair, then add another pair.

Flooded batteries, if put inside the passenger living area, need to be in a sealed container which is vented to the exterior of the vehicle. If these are going under the bed, you need to design the bed so you can easily reach the batteries so you can water them. you need to design a sealed container to keep them secured and to be able to run a vent from the top of the sealed battery compartment to the exterior of the vehicle. Electronics should not be inside this sealed vented battery container, but very close by so the thick wiring can be kept short.
Charging batteries will offgas hydrogen and oxygen and a diluted sulfuric acid mist. It will corrode things. Hydrogen and oxygen, well they are explosive, think hindenburg. Expect to have to water the batteries( Distilled or demineralized water only) every 3 to 4 months initially in your expected usage, and as batteries age they use more water. Not filling the batteries in time, exposing the plates is a big, a HUGE No No NOOOOO! The lower the batteries get the more hydrogen and oxygen builds up inside the batteries above the plates. Makes them more dangerous.

Batteries only offgas when charging. GC batteries can offgas a lot.

The part of the plates that was exposed to air is forever useless, and the batteries capacity is seriously compromised as well as its lifespan. Do not put off watering the batteries!!! and do remember the hotter the temps and the more one is charging them, the faster the batteries will need to be watered. Do not think watering every 3 months is enough. You need to check them often and insure you do not let them get too low, and as they age you need to check them more often.

Some cells, usually at the ends of the battery, use more water than others so just checking one cell is not really wise.

As far as location of the generator, well the AC lines from generator to Converter does not need to be short and fat. It is the DC wiring, that from Batteries to alternator, batteries to inverter and batteries to converter than need to be short and thick. If the inverter needs to power somegthing distant, use regular household extension cords to bring the AC power from inverter to appliance, ass voltage drop over AC circuits is significantly less than DC circuits.

I'm sure there is some news in this post you did not want to hear.

Do not shoot the messenger