"At what point does saving a few pennies become absurd?"

[debit.servus]

"At what point does saving a few pennies become absurd?"

That's easy

a) when it ends up being more costly if you factor in the money value of your time. Take your hourly wage from work. Let's say it's $10/hour. If you find yourself spending three hours of your personal time to save $20, then it's not worth it.

b) when it results in too much discomfort. For example, you turn off your A/C to save some $$ and you can't sleep well at night because you're tossing and turning due to the heat

c) when you earn more money at work in an hour than what it is you're trying to save a few pennies on. Let's say you earn $20/hour. And you go to the clothing store and you have a choice between a $10 ugly shirt and a $20 nice shirt. So basically you can 'work' an extra half hour to get the nice shirt, that's a worthwhile payoff.

d) putting yourself in a risky or unhealthy situation. not worth it

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/frugal-living/1767134-what-point-does-saving-few-pennies-4.html#ixzz5FMDlrzzP

 

[sephson]

e) You see an ad for an item you need at $5 off. It'll cost you $10 in gas to get there. You can find the item locally for full price. You just paid $10 to save $5.

 

[Queen]

Exception to a)... when you have far more time than money.

 

[John61CT]

Many things we consider necessities are really just habits, in fact luxuries.

Buying stuff to try to get social status is just idiotic - to me.

It is morally wrong to feed the beast unnecessarily.

Yes a life rich in relationships and shared experiences does take some money, but it doesn't have to be a lot if you choose well.

Many people sacrifice their future old age comfort to useless junk.

Current comfort should not IMO become a priority over future security.

But everyone is free to choose their own priorities, out of those who live like they will die before then, or the world will soon end, **some** are right.

 

[Weight]

Some have incomes $1000 or plus a week. Some only $400 or less a week. There lies the difference. Sometimes the cost of China socks make spending at the laundry-mat foolish.

 

[John61CT]

Thrift shops are a fantastic source of as-new clothes, often a better selection than department stores.

Even if you can afford more, to me just silly, like buying vehicles new.

Exceptions besides the obvious would be good quality boots, but I've found plenty of other near-new footwear there. Especially for fast-growing kids.

 

[wagoneer]

When you reach 70 years. And get what you really want

 

[Wabbit]

When you reach 70 years. And get what you really want

Yeah but at that age, Crack is really hard on the ol' ticker!

 

[debit.servus]

I see deflection about c), the gist with "And you go to the clothing store and you have a choice between a $10 ugly shirt and a $20 nice shirt. So basically you can 'work' an extra half hour to get the nice shirt, that's a worthwhile payoff." is you shouldn't wear clothes you don't like when you can easily afford clothes you do like AND look forward to wearing.

Is wearing an ugly shirt worth the effects of masochism when the nice (to you) shirt will cost you an extra half an hour of your life to work for (all else equal - the two shirts are the same quality and will last the same amount of time, and be worn the same number of times)?

I've done that before, buying things (including clothes once) in a different color than I prefer because it's slightly cheaper than a preferable color. Eating food I don't really like, blackout curtains in a color on I don't like, fixtures because they were a few dollars cheaper. We're talking less than 5% on a sub $100 item or a net savings of $5, and I still have ugly curtains and fixtures!

When you're terminally ill at 74 years old, living your last presidential administration; will you be saying "I saved $5 on blackout curtains.", "I waited in line for 2 hours for a free chicken sandwich and saved $4", "I got the lowest price on the internet for a part for my van, and picked it up at the general store without paying any pickup fee", "I ate free pancakes at IHOP", "I got free ketchup", "I saved 5 gallons of water at the 2018 RTR...", "I saved...", "I scored...", "I got free...". What do you look back on now?

Saving a few dollars/cents on yourself when you can easily afford it is a form of masochism.

 

[A Savage Adventure]

And just an alternative view on "saving pennies"...

I don't care if it's a dollar, quarter, dime, nickel or penny. If I see one on the ground, I pick it up. And I don't care of it is heads / tails up!

 

[Weight]

"" When you're terminally ill at 74 years old, living your last presidential administration; will you be saying "I saved $5 on blackout curtains.", "I waited in line for 2 hours for a free chicken sandwich and saved $4", "I got the lowest price on the internet for a part for my van, and picked it up at the general store without paying any pickup fee", "I ate free pancakes at IHOP", "I got free ketchup", "I saved 5 gallons of water at the 2018 RTR...", "I saved...", "I scored...", "I got free...". What do you look back on now? ""
73 and hope I live in another presidential administration, soon. I can say; I drink quality bourbon. Eat fine steak. With good red wine. Play American music. Hug every woman that agrees. Stay cool when it's hot. Stay warm when it's cold. I just don't do laundry. Thank you Walmart.

 

[John61CT]

The problem is the definition of "can easily afford it".

If like most civilized countries decent health care & disability pension, subsidized housing, family leave, a reasonable old age pension, quality K-12 education & tertiary tuition even student pensions, are all factored into taxes / social services planning

therefore citizens do not have to live in fear of family finances getting wiped out by the normal and expected catastrophes of life.

But in Amerika, it is not just prudent but necessary to set aside - really lock away - at least 20-40% of you income for such contingencies and act as your own business entrepreneur / investment advisor (since the latter are allowed to be salesmen crooks).

The lower 20% range only works if you do it from the very beginning of your teenage working life - even (especially) if you're saddled by enormous student debts and/or didn't train in a high-demand profession from the beginning.

The 30% level may be enough if you start locking it away at say 30 y.o., and 40% if you wait until 40. Subtract 5 years if you choose to raise kids.

If you haven't started by 50 you are well and truly f√cked.

So, within that context, if you aren't doing the above, you really **can't** afford that nicer non-essential bit of tempting shiny, that vacation, stereo, big screen, iGadget etc.

And don't get me started on consumer credit, borrowing against your house & other foolish ever heavier chains to everlasting wage slavery. Or on our moral obligation to subvert the whole evil Beast of brainwashed consumerism the heartless capitalist machine that keeps most people miserable.

We are all free to make our own choices. You may want to live as if you'll die early, or the world will end while you're still young. But that is very likely to turn out to be not so smart.

 

[John61CT]

And OP you seem to have a monomania wrt this seductive "spend it all you can afford it" philosophy.

I have not seen you start a single thread that actually pertains to cheap rv living, or the nuts and bolts practicalities of even a luxurious mobile lifestyle.

Some examples, https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=29389

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=26707

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=16454

Plus your name translates as "slave to debt".

Mitchell and Webb skit on YouTube "Are we the baddies?"

 

[wmyers4u]

Pinch every penny until you are happy..........I bet you'll find happiness long before someone trying to buy happiness.

 

[SoulRaven]

Exception to a)... when you have far more time than money.

I agree 100% with Queen on this. Debt-free since 2000 and doing every possible thing I can under "do-it-yourself" from cutting my hair and that of my family, grooming my dog, making my own coffee, cooking my own meals, home repairs, yard work............. And then there is the feeling of accomplishment that comes from expending my time in those ways. I only draw the line at when it would endanger my well-being or that of family members, otherwise, I'm game for whatever.

 

[bullfrog]

Just another view point, not proclaiming it is right but works or doesn't for me. Spending several years in a neuclear missle silo waiting to destroy the world when I was young probably warped my view of things as well as having children changed things greatly. Money and material things don't matter as long as you have enough to meet your basic needs. Your basic needs are not the same as anyone else's their are yours and your's alone. What you do to meet those needs and how you do it is not always the way you want to do it because of fate or circumstances. The truth of the matter is we have very little control over anything not even our thoughts. Our time here is limited and not one second more is guaranteed. It makes it difficult to not grasp onto anything that we feel would make us feel good or happy. The trick is to be happy and feel good no matter the circumstance. I get up every morning feeling good and happy I no longer have to determine or worry if the world lasts another day.

 

[debit.servus]

And OP you seem to have a monomania wrt this seductive "spend it all you can afford it" philosophy.

I have not seen you start a single thread that actually pertains to cheap rv living, or the nuts and bolts practicalities of even a luxurious mobile lifestyle.

Some examples, https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=29389

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=26707

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=16454

Plus your name translates as "slave to debt".

Mitchell and Webb skit on YouTube "Are we the baddies?"

This thread has been interpreted in many different ways, and it reads like mixed messages. My philopshy is "Money buys Freedom, it can buy the freedom to spend everything you earn outclassing the joneses, shop til you drop, buy your dream life  without compromise or conditions, freedom to spend the summer exploring Alaska, or freedom to..." as I listen to all, follow no one.

This is how I'm frugal:
https://affordanything.com/how-many-hours-of-your-life-did-that-cost/
 
http://affordanything.com/2011/12/19/be-frugal-with-your-time/

http://affordanything.com/2016/11/22/any-benefit/ 

http://affordanything.com/2016/01/2...-heres-why-simplifying-is-the-smarter-choice/

Using "Money Buys Freedom" as a standard, being extremely frugal / stingy / cheap when you have financial security / can easily afford it (you can make this a daily expense and not put yourself at the financial redline) is like someone in prison getting released, and asking to return to prison every Saturday night - and to exemplify, the case of an extreme cheapskate with 6 figures in the bank, having their cell door wide open where they can leave & return to prison anytime as many times as they want, and refusing to go anywhere outside of prison (refusing to spend money on themselves, their health & wellbeing, their family etc.)

Recently, I've been using the analogy of money as bottles of gasoline, every dollar earned is one unit of fuel, every dollar saved is one unit of fuel cached, and every dollar spent is one unit of fuel burned. It breaks my heart to see people with multiple tanker trucks full of fuel which they refuse to use before they die, as if they're going to burn their last unit of fuel if they spend any of it.

A better analogy is to see every dollar saved as a freedom fighter in your slave army, every dollar spent is one fighter killed. Collecting interest & ROI on freedom fighters procreates more soldiers. Every dollar of interest paid on debt is one fighter killed.

I've been reshaping my thinking and life to the blueprint of Unscripted: Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Entreprenuership & the sister book The Millionaire Fastlane. I reccomend these books for anyone with the slightest interest in entreprenuership, earning a life without limits (or loose limits), and those who want a better road to wealth. I'm working to earn my freedom, which isn't achieved by "spend it all you can afford it" and being a slave to debt (Lifestyle Servitude).

I'm working to earn my freedom, and I'm also planning a name change as debit.servus is not condusive to wealth (wealth = freedom, health & relationships). Debit.servus is latin for "debt slave" and I named myself that on internet forums because of how we all have a share of our working energy extorted to pay fictitious government debt, and how savers pay the tax on savings known as inflation. Being a slave to debt repayment for a living large lifestyle of today breeds indentured time (time spent to earn money, including work related time), which steals from free time.

I have written about the nuts and bolts for more luxurious RV living. 
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Two-Stage-Evaporative-Cooling-Hydronic-Cooling-Don-t-Swelter

https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-DIY-Exhaust-powered-greywater-evaporatator-sketch

Ways to have a more luxurious RV life without needing to be a 1%er.

 

[Dingfelder]

I got relatively inexpensive haircuts -- Supercuts type places, which around here have gone from $13 to almost $20 bucks. Regardless, I would always tip a fiver because I believe you really need the person who does your teeth and the person who does your hair to love to see you and want to do a great job. If I was conscientious, that would add up to around $125 or more per year. Now I just cut my hair short with a clipper and after the initial 30 bucks for the clipper, I spend on nothing but electricity to use it.

I used to buy shirts and pants because I liked the way they look. Now I buy them because I like the way they look ... IF they are black or very dark blue. I like dogs and have done a lot of gardening in my time, and anything else stains. Then if I don't want to go through my days looking like I'm wearing dirty clothes, I have to throw my clothes away while they are still in good repair, or build up an endless pile of clothes to wear only around the house while constantly buying more. Better to save the money, keep the inventory manageable, and just buy black/dark blue.

I've also cut way back on prepared foods, especially snacks. They are extremely expensive compared to food you make yourself,sometimes three, four, five times the cost, and are almost without exception full of salt, sugar, and fat. After all, that's what tastes good! Maybe worse is that they usually don't taste as good as what even the most average cook can make at home -- and usually without all the garbage in it.

I view learning to cook as an amazing force-multiplier when it comes to you and your money. With a little bit of care, a person of modest means can eat far above his or her "station" in life. While a rich man can eat steak and lobster and others can't, most of the time, a rich man can't eat a tastier piece of chicken than a poor man can make for himself. So learning to cook doesn't just help on the financial front, but greatly increases your quality of life. It can turn you toward a simple daily inexpensive joy and consolation that nobody can take from you. And that even improves your health!

 

[debit.servus]

—-

I got relatively inexpensive haircuts -- Supercuts type places, which around here have gone from $13 to almost $20 bucks. Regardless, I would always tip a fiver because I believe you really need the person who does your teeth and the person who does your hair to love to see you and want to do a great job. If I was conscientious, that would add up to around $125 or more per year. Now I just cut my hair short with a clipper and after the initial 30 bucks for the clipper, I spend on nothing but electricity to use it.

I used to buy shirts and pants because I liked the way they look. Now I buy them because I like the way they look ... IF they are black or very dark blue. I like dogs and have done a lot of gardening in my time, and anything else stains. Then if I don't want to go through my days looking like I'm wearing dirty clothes, I have to throw my clothes away while they are still in good repair, or build up an endless pile of clothes to wear only around the house while constantly buying more. Better to save the money, keep the inventory manageable, and just buy black/dark blue.

I've also cut way back on prepared foods, especially snacks. They are extremely expensive compared to food you make yourself,sometimes three, four, five times the cost, and are almost without exception full of salt, sugar, and fat. After all, that's what tastes good! Maybe worse is that they usually don't taste as good as what even the most average cook can make at home -- and usually without all the garbage in it.

I view learning to cook as an amazing force-multiplier when it comes to you and your money. With a little bit of care, a person of modest means can eat far above his or her "station" in life. While a rich man can eat steak and lobster and others can't, most of the time, a rich man can't eat a tastier piece of chicken than a poor man can make for himself. So learning to cook doesn't just help on the financial front, but greatly increases your quality of life. It can turn you toward a simple daily inexpensive joy and consolation that nobody can take from you. And that even improves your health!

Everybody needs to be honest with them self, and identify your perceptions so you know how you view the world; then figure out what you really want as real deprevation is learning to like things you don’t like because you rather have 1% higher bank balance. When Money is put above people then things, it deciduously knaws at the other wealth elements, health and relationships.

If you view clothes as utility that’s fine, just be honest with yourself. If you are a fashion oriented Don’t wear clothes you don’t like when you can easily afford clothes you do like.

My buying, selling, transactional ethos is to make a profit AFTER paying myself. “How much of my life will this cost” is my way to value money. I will earn, then buy the freedom to explore America, return to Alaska, spend months out of the year with family in Canada and Mexico instead of averaging 2 weeks a year, freedom to never miss a Burning Man, live in a posh mobile dwelling, freedom from having to fret about money everyday, freedom from broke, freedom from negative enviroments.

Every dollar is a freedom fighter, capable of procreating more soldiers in the stock market. Every dollar of interest paid is one fighter killed.

As for food I desire to cook great meals, using the blueprint found in ’Salt, Fat, Acid & Heat’ which is to cooking what The Millionaire Fastlane Is to entrepreneurship. Apply & process the principles in Salt, Fat, Acid & Heat and you turn cheap/frugal ingredients into Michelin star meals.

 

[losthighwaydrifter]

so true I went a decade with wearing a new pair of socks everyday! lol drove my ex crazy.
but 5$ a week for socks when I made $4000/week seamed ok!