Gigi
Well-known member
Sooooo, let me ask this-- Is there a place I can go (solar store or something) where I can say, I want to run these things, and they will hook me up with like a starter kit?
ArkPak- Perfect for living in and out of Minivan?
- Thread starter Gigi
- Start date
Help Support Van Living Forum:
Optimistic Paranoid
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2013
- Messages
- 4,534
- Reaction score
- 10
Gigi said:
Sure, but don't expect it to be cheap. Here's a couple of good companies:
http://www.solar-electric.com/capr.html/
http://www.amsolarrv.com/landing
Why not try pm'ing GotSmart, who's a regional sales type for Renogy solar panels. They're a decent brand, a lot of people here seem happy with them, and they're not insanely expensive.
Regards
John
Gigi
Well-known member
Optimistic Paranoid said:
Thanks, John!! I just wanted to know in case I need a plan D! I am starting out in a minivan and know I will change vehicles in a couple years-- Even if just for a newer minivan and I just really liked that the arkpak was portable so I didn't have do so much to my current van so I could sell it or trade it as a functioning-good condition minivan. I still might end up with something like the Arkpak and look at scaling down pc needs. I just have to really think out my options. :s <~~~~~ me thinking ha!
SternWake
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2013
- Messages
- 3,874
- Reaction score
- 2
As far as how much solar and battery capacity you actually need, it is entirely dependent on how much your devices actually draw and how long you run them. Any online outfit is not going to be magically able to pinpoint what you need, as they do not know, can;t know, and just have their bottom line in mind when they make any recommendation.
Better to have too much than too little. I'll guess you need at least 100Ah of battery and at least 100watts of solar, just for the laptop, not including the other loads.
You'd be better off with a pair of golf cart batteries in series and 200+ watts of solar, and this will allow you to handle your increased electrical loads as you live this lifestyle, upto a point.
The 23 dollars you could spend on the P3 kill a watt, to measure actual consumption on the devices you plan on running, might save you hundreds in doing it correctly the first time, rather than the guess and hope method.
There is lots of experience here on this forum as to what works and where( x amount of solar) is enough. Lots of threads about how to hook it all up. Many Newb's want a all in one kit. These kits are not really well matched parts, usually overpriced, and usually still require this that or the other thing for completion to functionality.
When having enough electrical power is required not only for work time, but comfort, then 'just enough' is usually only that, in ideal conditions.
There are three main charging sources in this lifestyle. Solar, Alternator and grid powered charger. How well all three of these can fully charge the battery(s) is filled with if's ands and Butts, and all these variables are still wide open, without actual data, as to how much your devices are actually going to draw, and how much battery you need to power them for the duration you need to use them, and how much charging you need to keep the battery happy enough, to live an acceptable lifespan, are giant unknown variables.
A power Audit is necessary, and the easiest most accurate way to do that is with the Kill a watt with a power strip plugged into it, and all your devices plugged into the power strip for the period of time you expect to use them in when on wheels..
It will give you a kwH figure at the end of those 8 hours. Divide Kwh by 12 for the Amp hours. If this falls in the 50 range, then you need, at minimum, a 100Ah battery and at least 140 watts of solar on a good sunny day to replenish that amount.
Really that would be 'just enough' in Ideal conditions, so planning for twice that capacity and even more solar can have you acquire s system that has more than enough to keep a safety buffer and not continuously draw the battery to below 50%.
A battery regularly drawn to 50% and below, is a punch drunk battery, and will keel over if not given time to sober up, meaning a true full recharge over the time required to actually achieve that.
Do you know what vehicle you have to install this solar onto? how much it can actually fit? This is a considerable limiting factor.
If you have to replace the battery every 8 months, and be stressed out on months 6 and 7, is this acceptable? if it is, then you can certainly get away with less, but if it is not, then much more consideration needs to be put toward an energy Audit, and application of the three main charging sources to get the battery(s) as full as possible whenever possible.
Intended Aux Battery location is another consideration, as wet flooded batteries offgass when charging in the 80%+ range, and this can be a significant issue for some, and inconsequential for some others, with strong chest thumping tarzan yelling opinions on either side.
Generally if one wants the battery inside the living space with them, AGM batteries are the way to go, and AGM batteries recharge requirements to achieve acceptable lifespans( as they cost 2 or 3x as much) must be taken into consideration.
The other option is enclosing the wet battery and venting it to the exterior of the vehicle.
Third is just not worrying about the potentially explosive offgassing. When Charging at the higher states of charge hydrogen and oxygen eascape, and take a sulfuric acid mist with them as they exit the cell caps.
I can smell this from quite a distance away. Some others claim never to and/or just do not care.
Batteries do not off gass when discharging. Gassing voltages are usually around the 14.2+ range when still charging. Once the flooded battery gets here upto this voltage when charging, it bubbles, and it needs to, to actually reach a true 100% recharge. Do not listen to those that claim a 'properly' charged battery will not offgass. The slower the rate at which the battery is charged, can reduce the time and amount of offgassing, but not eliminate it.
When the next discharge begins late afternoon, charging too slow is akin to shooting oneself in the foot.
Getting the battery to absorption voltage by 11AM should be the goal, so that the solar has enough time to complete the task before the sun gets too low, and it will take a further 2 to 4 hours to actually get the battery in the 98% charged range, and that last 2 percent can take that much time again, especially if the battery is less than healthy and has not seen a true 100% recharge in a while.
It should be noted much of what I write is for ideal battery longevity as Ideal should at least be known, if not sought. One can shoot for less than ideal if less than maximum battery longevity is acceptable. But there is a point where too little means a battery whose capacity declines so rapidly that it fails quickly, and in the time before total failure, the battery is not storing enough electricity to meet the users demands.
Ideal is a very small window, but less than Ideal has a huge wide range with varying implications as to battery life and ability to power what one needs to. The 'Just fine' range should be quantified when it is claimed, with the amount of time it appears to be 'just fine', as one day it is, then next, maybe not.
Better to have too much than too little. I'll guess you need at least 100Ah of battery and at least 100watts of solar, just for the laptop, not including the other loads.
You'd be better off with a pair of golf cart batteries in series and 200+ watts of solar, and this will allow you to handle your increased electrical loads as you live this lifestyle, upto a point.
The 23 dollars you could spend on the P3 kill a watt, to measure actual consumption on the devices you plan on running, might save you hundreds in doing it correctly the first time, rather than the guess and hope method.
There is lots of experience here on this forum as to what works and where( x amount of solar) is enough. Lots of threads about how to hook it all up. Many Newb's want a all in one kit. These kits are not really well matched parts, usually overpriced, and usually still require this that or the other thing for completion to functionality.
When having enough electrical power is required not only for work time, but comfort, then 'just enough' is usually only that, in ideal conditions.
There are three main charging sources in this lifestyle. Solar, Alternator and grid powered charger. How well all three of these can fully charge the battery(s) is filled with if's ands and Butts, and all these variables are still wide open, without actual data, as to how much your devices are actually going to draw, and how much battery you need to power them for the duration you need to use them, and how much charging you need to keep the battery happy enough, to live an acceptable lifespan, are giant unknown variables.
A power Audit is necessary, and the easiest most accurate way to do that is with the Kill a watt with a power strip plugged into it, and all your devices plugged into the power strip for the period of time you expect to use them in when on wheels..
It will give you a kwH figure at the end of those 8 hours. Divide Kwh by 12 for the Amp hours. If this falls in the 50 range, then you need, at minimum, a 100Ah battery and at least 140 watts of solar on a good sunny day to replenish that amount.
Really that would be 'just enough' in Ideal conditions, so planning for twice that capacity and even more solar can have you acquire s system that has more than enough to keep a safety buffer and not continuously draw the battery to below 50%.
A battery regularly drawn to 50% and below, is a punch drunk battery, and will keel over if not given time to sober up, meaning a true full recharge over the time required to actually achieve that.
Do you know what vehicle you have to install this solar onto? how much it can actually fit? This is a considerable limiting factor.
If you have to replace the battery every 8 months, and be stressed out on months 6 and 7, is this acceptable? if it is, then you can certainly get away with less, but if it is not, then much more consideration needs to be put toward an energy Audit, and application of the three main charging sources to get the battery(s) as full as possible whenever possible.
Intended Aux Battery location is another consideration, as wet flooded batteries offgass when charging in the 80%+ range, and this can be a significant issue for some, and inconsequential for some others, with strong chest thumping tarzan yelling opinions on either side.
Generally if one wants the battery inside the living space with them, AGM batteries are the way to go, and AGM batteries recharge requirements to achieve acceptable lifespans( as they cost 2 or 3x as much) must be taken into consideration.
The other option is enclosing the wet battery and venting it to the exterior of the vehicle.
Third is just not worrying about the potentially explosive offgassing. When Charging at the higher states of charge hydrogen and oxygen eascape, and take a sulfuric acid mist with them as they exit the cell caps.
I can smell this from quite a distance away. Some others claim never to and/or just do not care.
Batteries do not off gass when discharging. Gassing voltages are usually around the 14.2+ range when still charging. Once the flooded battery gets here upto this voltage when charging, it bubbles, and it needs to, to actually reach a true 100% recharge. Do not listen to those that claim a 'properly' charged battery will not offgass. The slower the rate at which the battery is charged, can reduce the time and amount of offgassing, but not eliminate it.
When the next discharge begins late afternoon, charging too slow is akin to shooting oneself in the foot.
Getting the battery to absorption voltage by 11AM should be the goal, so that the solar has enough time to complete the task before the sun gets too low, and it will take a further 2 to 4 hours to actually get the battery in the 98% charged range, and that last 2 percent can take that much time again, especially if the battery is less than healthy and has not seen a true 100% recharge in a while.
It should be noted much of what I write is for ideal battery longevity as Ideal should at least be known, if not sought. One can shoot for less than ideal if less than maximum battery longevity is acceptable. But there is a point where too little means a battery whose capacity declines so rapidly that it fails quickly, and in the time before total failure, the battery is not storing enough electricity to meet the users demands.
Ideal is a very small window, but less than Ideal has a huge wide range with varying implications as to battery life and ability to power what one needs to. The 'Just fine' range should be quantified when it is claimed, with the amount of time it appears to be 'just fine', as one day it is, then next, maybe not.
Gigi
Well-known member
This is definitely on my list to get. Thanks for this and everything!SternWake said:
Gigi
acfdexpo
Well-known member
SVan said:
I was able to run a fluorescent work light, keep phones and IPADs charged, and baby monitor plugged in. Longest trip using it was only three days and was recharged with the factory 12 volt outlets. Never really kept track of recharge rates other than to see if in fact it was being charged. My intention was to buy a 12v refrigerator but have since bought a trailer so now the ARKPAK(first generation by the way) is being used as back up power in our house we are renting.http://expeditionportal.com/. The are a couple of threads at this site with much more info. Hope this helps.
highdesertranger
R.I.P HDR
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2012
- Messages
- 22,892
- Reaction score
- 92
I just made my own battery box. I took 2 12ah batteries, wired them in series, put them inside a plastic ammo can. they fit perfect, then I install a cheap toggle switch that switches what ever receptacles you want. cig liter, usb, Andersons, etc. then I charge it of my truck or off a 50w solar panel. the battery box cost less than 50 bucks. but I had the wire, toggle switch, and connectors. I also had the solar panel and controller. highdesertranger
myway_1
Well-known member
no offense to sternwake but that post only strengthened my desire to find a power solution that doesn't require a lead acid battery. it would create too much stress for me to worry about it charging or discharging improperly.
Spaceman Spiff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2014
- Messages
- 2,650
- Reaction score
- 655
Any electricity storing device is going to have issues with improper charging/discharge. One big advantage of flooded lead acid batteries is they are the (relatively) cheap to replace if damaged. FLA battery systems are a mature technology, well understood, readily available and currently the cheapest way to store amps.
-- Spiff
-- Spiff
Dust-In-the-Wind
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2014
- Messages
- 106
- Reaction score
- 0
I think Sternwake should just write the book on 12v systems for van dwellers and put it on the market. Hey, I'd buy two copies. (Never leave home without a backup!)
Gigi
Well-known member
Dust-In-the-Wind said:
Right?! I would too!
lterry
Well-known member
I got the $100 version from walmart with the extra warranty - the way I figured it, there is a Walmart everywhere. There is a battery already in it. I have a generator as well but wasn't too fond of the idea of running it every day. I also will be living where there is a lot of cloud coverage and rain (second only to Seattle). I'm not there yet - Mobile is where I'm going - but I've been testing it out and seeing what kind of abuse it can take. So far, using it 3 weeks, I need to charge it every other day, and it fully charges after about an hour or so by cigarette lighter (make sure you're driving your vehicle when doing this.)
However, I have a house battery also which charges by my alternator while driving, so I'm not using it for all of my power sources. You might need to recharge it every day.
I can't remember ever endorsing anything from Walmart, but this power station seems solid and hasn't failed me yet. But I do recommend getting the extra warranty when buying this or anything else electronic from Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/46167068?...2066928&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=127890262368&veh=sem
However, I have a house battery also which charges by my alternator while driving, so I'm not using it for all of my power sources. You might need to recharge it every day.
I can't remember ever endorsing anything from Walmart, but this power station seems solid and hasn't failed me yet. But I do recommend getting the extra warranty when buying this or anything else electronic from Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/46167068?...2066928&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=127890262368&veh=sem
Similar threads
