Are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries easily damaged?

[poot_traveller]

I was just about to buy the battery below for my 160 watt solar panel but there is a lot of different guidelines and warnings on the battery:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/ca...tm?rsqid=32c4b0ad84e0485ea83e61bf32ed0d07-003

My questions are; Are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries easily damaged compared to lead acid batteries?

Is a newbie like myself better off with a lead acid battery? :-/

 

[whitewolf]

Some say to start out with cheap regular batteries until you get your act together because a lot of people ruin their first set. On the other hand, lithium batteries are usually more forgiving and less demanding. I'm almost two years on my Battle Borns lithium and I say find a way to afford them. They are great. I don't even think about them anymore. They just work. But I do have really good controller and charger. It's a decision.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[tx2sturgis]

Lifepo4 batteries are fairly robust....and the built-in protection helps avoid over or under charging as well as protections during extreme temperatures. Of course, anything could happen....like physically dropping it 6 feet onto concrete or submerging it in 3 feet of salt water. Lets assume you wont be doing either of these things.

But for the best performance you will need a lithium compatible solar charge controller. You have mentioned in other threads that you have a PWM controller, which is fine for the one panel, but does it have a setting for lithium?

If not, you should figure in the cost of a 'lithium compatible' controller.

 

[eugenesan]

LiFePo4s are probably the most durable batteries. They are better then LeadAcid in every way except initial investment (you save in long run).
I recommend purchasing "drop in" 12V batteries with internal monitoring and external interface (display or Bluetooth). To charge those you can use regular solar chargers with ability to modify charging voltages.

LiFePo4s are also significantly more efficient both in charging and capacity.
They charge faster and can be used nearly to a full capacity.
The rule of thumb is you can get by with 1/2 of solar or 1/3 of capacity when comparing with LeadAcids.

I highly recommend EpEver/EpSolar BN-series chargers and LifeBlue batteries.

P. S. In contrast to LeadAcids, most Lithium manufacturers offer extended warranty as standard since their batteries have internal logging of hazardous events. But since it's extremely hard to cause damage to the batteries unintentionally, you can be sure the battery will last for a long time or will be replaced/upgraded if it fails.

 

[poot_traveller]

Some say to start out with cheap regular batteries until you get your act together because a lot of people ruin their first set. On the other hand, lithium batteries are usually more forgiving and less demanding. I'm almost two years on my Battle Borns lithium and I say find a way to afford them. They are great. I don't even think about them anymore. They just work. But I do have really good controller and charger. It's a decision.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

OK thanks, that sounds good

 

[poot_traveller]

Lifepo4 batteries are fairly robust....and the built-in protection helps avoid over or under charging as well as protections during extreme temperatures. Of course, anything could happen....like physically dropping it 6 feet onto concrete or submerging it in 3 feet of salt water. Lets assume you wont be doing either of these things.

But for the best performance you will need a lithium compatible solar charge controller. You have mentioned in other threads that you have a PWM controller, which is fine for the one panel, but does it have a setting for lithium?

If not, you should figure in the cost of a 'lithium compatible' controller.

Yeah I hoped the BMS would prevent over/under charging but may be I need to also buy this: https://www.amazon.com/Ammeter-DROK...ttery+monitor&qid=1563336656&s=gateway&sr=8-4

I know the meters like the one above probably have to be regularly calibrated and can't really be trusted for accuracy, but I figure (assuming the BMS doesn't offer over/under charging potection) it will be better than nothing, right?

Yes the controller has a setting for lithium batteries.

 

[poot_traveller]

"P. S. In contrast to LeadAcids, most Lithium manufacturers offer extended warranty as standard since their batteries have internal logging of hazardous events. But since it's extremely hard to cause damage to the batteries unintentionally, you can be sure the battery will last for a long time or will be replaced/upgraded if it fails."

Yes I forgot about the warranty.  Good point. The battery I want to buy has a 24 month warranty.

 

[jimindenver]

One thing is cold weather. I am told something called Denverites form when charged below freezing. The Denverites are are like twigs that grow and eventually poke through the protective wrapping causing a risk of fire. The BMS is suppose to stop this from happening but in the case of one manufacture the cut off is 25 degrees which is 6 degrees too cold. There are Lithium's that are cold rated and cost a few hundred more than the regular ones.

This was told to me by the seller of one brand in comparison to another brand so you might need a grain of salt.

 

[jonyjoe303]

The lifepo4 in your link has built-in bms, so its good to go. It will last longer then any lead acid and is perfect for solar, you can charge halfway, leave it at 50 percent or lower for weeks at a time. Lead acid you need to charge it at high amps every once in a while, it needs to be fully charge everyday, and never leave it discharged.

Only disadvantage is you might need to connect everything that goes on the battery through a 12 volt overvoltage stabilizer. If the battery bms ever cutsout while on solar the controller will produce voltage surges and destroy any fans/pumps/lights connected to battery. I lost too many fans/pumps from voltage surges but since I used a 12 volt voltage stabilizer I havent had any more problems. If you never fully charge the lifepo4 you might be able to avoid it. I like fast charging my battery thats why I encounter these surges sometimes. 

Instead of the meter on your link get a coulombmeter which cost about the same on amazon. " DC 8-80V 50A Battery Coulometer TK15 Battery Tester for LiFePo Coulomb Counter" . I bought one of the meters on your link and it not easy to program, it just unreliable. All you need is a coulometer to count amps going in/out of your battery. With this coulometer you always know how much amps you have left in your battery.

Another thing you can do is connect a overvoltage protection relay between battery and solar panel, if battery voltage goes above 14.6 volts, the relay disconnects the solar panel. Its how I have my solar system hooked up. This is extra protection in case bms fails. Its how I have my 220 ah lifepo4 installed like in the diagram.

coulometer
 


How I have my lifepo4 hooked up to solar. Note relay will disconnect solar panel if battery voltage ever gets too high. Overvoltage relay cost is 5 dollars.


12 volt voltage stabilizer

 

[poot_traveller]

One thing is cold weather. I am told something called Denverites form when charged below freezing. The Denverites are are like twigs that grow and eventually poke through the protective wrapping causing a risk of fire. The BMS is suppose to stop this from happening but in the case of one manufacture the cut off is 25 degrees which is 6 degrees too cold. There are Lithium's that are cold rated and cost a few hundred more than the regular ones.

This was told to me by the seller of one brand in comparison to another brand so you might need a grain of salt.

I don't think I'll need to worry about the temperature droping that low in the van.  But I'll keep that in mind if it gets too cold.

 

[poot_traveller]

The lifepo4 in your link has built-in bms, so its good to go. It will last longer then any lead acid and is perfect for solar, you can charge halfway, leave it at 50 percent or lower for weeks at a time. Lead acid you need to charge it at high amps every once in a while, it needs to be fully charge everyday, and never leave it discharged.

Only disadvantage is you might need to connect everything that goes on the battery through a 12 volt overvoltage stabilizer. If the battery bms ever cutsout while on solar the controller will produce voltage surges and destroy any fans/pumps/lights connected to battery. I lost too many fans/pumps from voltage surges but since I used a 12 volt voltage stabilizer I havent had any more problems. If you never fully charge the lifepo4 you might be able to avoid it. I like fast charging my battery thats why I encounter these surges sometimes. 

Instead of the meter on your link get a coulombmeter which cost about the same on amazon. " DC 8-80V 50A Battery Coulometer TK15 Battery Tester for LiFePo Coulomb Counter" . I bought one of the meters on your link and it not easy to program, it just unreliable. All you need is a coulometer to count amps going in/out of your battery. With this coulometer you always know how much amps you have left in your battery.

Another thing you can do is connect a overvoltage protection relay between battery and solar panel, if battery voltage goes above 14.6 volts, the relay disconnects the solar panel. Its how I have my solar system hooked up. This is extra protection in case bms fails. Its how I have my 220 ah lifepo4 installed like in the diagram.

coulometer
 


How I have my lifepo4 hooked up to solar. Note relay will disconnect solar panel if battery voltage ever gets too high. Overvoltage relay cost is 5 dollars.


12 volt voltage stabilizer

Thanks.  It looks like I got some cool toys to buy - coulometer, overvoltage stabilizer and a overvoltage relay.

I've got a charge controller and inverter, I thought those devices stop surges?, And the controller, I think, can be programmed to not go over 14.6 volts.

 

[poot_traveller]

Lifepo4 batteries are fairly robust....and the built-in protection helps avoid over or under charging as well as protections during extreme temperatures. Of course, anything could happen....like physically dropping it 6 feet onto concrete or submerging it in 3 feet of salt water. Lets assume you wont be doing either of these things.

But for the best performance you will need a lithium compatible solar charge controller. You have mentioned in other threads that you have a PWM controller, which is fine for the one panel, but does it have a setting for lithium?

If not, you should figure in the cost of a 'lithium compatible' controller.

Even though my PWM controller is compatible with a Lithium battery, the battery in the OP link that I want to buy is only compatible with a LiFePO4 charge controller and my PWM controller doesn't specify what type of lithium battery it works with.

Do you think I should by a LiFePO4 charge controller like this?: https://www.amazon.com/Genasun-GV-1...c5-20&linkId=2a1ee7abd062307ea19a3cb9a8e644ce

 

[Groovy2]

Good to see that people are not all freaked out on LI Ion batteries
anymore -
when I build my Lifepo4 battery 4 years ago I got all kinds of
grief from lead battery lovers about how I was going to Blowup / Burn down
Sizzle out - Spew Flames - OMG - too $pendy - waste of money ect-

My how things change -

 

[Natgreen]

Lithium is actually more resilient. Watch out for charging in extreme temperatures though. That will damage them