America the Miserable depending on your age!

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That's the biggest racist bunch of crap I've read in a long time. The U.S. was built by & for migrants, many came here with nothing, worked hard & built a good life. You mention "most poor people aren't black" that's because blacks are only 13% of the population. You also state "Politicians also use mass incarceration as a tool to keep black and Latino Americans from participating fully in society." That's because they commit crime & go to jail as do any race that commits crime. I would guess many are drug crimes which they knew the risk. America is still the land of opportunity for those that don't mind working hard & smart to achieve their dreams.
 
^^^Only for some, not all and success is disproportionate between different groups of people but especially when you look at race as one example I believe. Lots of individual success stories but not near as may of failure or those unable to begin to make an attemp due to lack of resources and opportunity I believe. The very fact you are aware there is a racial difference in outcomes indicates there is an equality problem that has occurred because people of different backgrounds have not all been offered or have access to resources and opportunities. For example 13% of a whole population should continue to represent 13% of all aspects of the population if things are truly equal. Equality is still an area we as a society need to work on especially in this country where it is promised.
 
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There is an equality problem in this country. There is still racism in this country.

Those two facts aren't to blame for every problem in this country. Or responsible for bad decisions individuals make. Those at a disadvantage can still succeed. Those with true advantages can still screw it up.

Those that allow their disadvantages to predetermine their fate can be accused of lazy thinking.

Those that allow their advantages to determine they don't need to think are lazy.

And yes the one with advantages can recover easier. But only if they don't have lazy thinking.

That's the beauty of America. Everyone gets a real chance to win and be successful. Whatever that might mean to them.
 
Again some not all. And not just race but gender, religon, politics, financial status and even where and how you live can be used by other agents, groups and individuals to limit your opportunities and resources available to you. Systemic problems of health, education, and even ability to get financial resources through things like home equity or bank loans can be limiting but especially if the agency, group or individual you are having to deal with is biased. If all people were judged on an individual basis the percentages would logically be the same throughout society in my opinion.
 
^^^agreed that this is the best place to try to succeed as it often rewards hard work and self improvement but many fail because they are unfairly handicapped.
 
RonDean said:
...and how racism...particularly slavery...
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Excellent point!
My four grandparents moved from Ireland to North America in the 1870s.
I grew-up reading letters from their earlier diaspora relations, my ancestors.
In their correspondence, the old-timers talk about leaving slavery in Ireland, only to be enslaved again by Americans.
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How many remember seeing signs prohibiting Italians, Germans, Portuguese, Greeks, Lutherans.
Although I dislike the concept in theory, in the Real-World, I think bigotry has a place.
For example, I particularly dislike face tattoos.
Nor do I much care for stark raving socialists.
 
RonDean said:
Why the United States has developed an economy divided between rich and poor and how racism helped bring this about.
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I would say that this is just one piece of their toolkit.... all the many ways they have to keep us divided, confused, and anxious.

A sample of some of the other recent favorites are gun control, abortion, transgender rights, immigration, and climate change. It's incredibly sad that both "sides" have an increasing desire for censorship... like freedom of speech is really a bad thing? Of course it's vital that "their side" prevail so they can decide exactly what is censored. Cue Mao and 1984. Honestly I think both "sides" are simply reacting to the intense manipulation going on. If we actually had a true dialog rather than a fake/manipulated one there would be no problem.

I could go on and on and on... but to summarizing, I think all of this is the result of very sophisticated manipulation. And the point is to make us powerless. None of these hills are worth dying on, and deep down no one really gives a shit. We are not that different in what is truly important to us. If you are confused, then side with freedom. That means people can get an abortion if they want, and the gun nuts can keep their guns. Black people are actually happier about how things are than the whites! So who keeps beating the racist drums? Another very important point... if the only way you can get your beliefs across is to cram them down people's throats, then you are doing it wrong.

At this time it's more important than ever for us to stop the conflict. Just say no. We need to listen to each other with compassion and understanding, reach an agreement, and make the vision of a "government of the people" a reality. Else the future that the greedy, psychopathic, sociopathic "elites" want, will come to pass... and we really won't like it.
 
rruff said:
Your post was #181... so quit the time travel tomfoolery, it's already confusing enough! :ROFLMAO::eek:
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Your 'tomfoolery' is going someplace on my new business-cards.
Heck, I might name the whole business 'Tomfoolery'.
Thanks!
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For relavince realevance rilevince connection to the thread:
'Americans, Le Tomfoolery Mizerable'
 
rruff said:
I would say that this is just one piece of their toolkit.... all the many ways they have to keep us divided, confused, and anxious....
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I agree on all your basic points - as well as some others recently posted. To add or contrast I suggest the following.

1. Sure, there are individuals that can rise above others with the same opportunities. But the greater majority will not achieve nearly as much as those with greater opportunities. Pointing out outliers is but another way to claim we don't need to do better.
2. It's true this country has better opportunities than many others. But most of our undocumented immigrants come from pretty bad places. And not just economically. I don't see us wanting to building walls today to keep the throng of EU citizens seeking more opportunity. Even Trump admitted that when he said he wanted more Europeans and fewer people from s**thole countries.
3. Discrimination has always existed in the US and it still does. But today it is directed more at brown and black people. Anyone that can't see that needs to talk to a few racial minorities now and again. Failing that, check the statistics. Even if we are starting to clean up some of the worst of it, the effects will take generations to overcome. Wealth, opportunity, education, and culture are all inherited and the results, both good and bad, stay with people for generations.

I especially want to agree with Rruff on (Honestly I think both "sides" are simply reacting to the intense manipulation going on. If we actually had a true dialog rather than a fake/manipulated one there would be no problem.) While I may think one "side" is much more manipulative that the other, I agree that both are guilty of keeping us in our respective tribes. How any of us are not outraged when the politicians admit to not passing needed legislation that would be good for the country because not to do so would be better for their political ambitions escapes me.

OK. That's my one daily post. I find I am a happier man keeping my participation to a minimum. :)
 
rruff said:
Your post was #181... so quit the time travel tomfoolery, it's already confusing enough! :ROFLMAO::eek:
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I was referring to Bullfrogs post #184, that's why I posted right under his. Why don't you stop your BS?
LM asked
Gr8ful said:
That's why all the migrants are going thru all the trouble to get here.
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Are you referring to a post in this discussion for your 'why'?
 
0zz1 said:
I think I want to give my 2 cents on this discussion from a different point of view. Im from Finland which has now ranged #1 for the past 7 years. The secrete for Finlands #1 position is low expectations, its as simple as that. The formula is: expectations - life events = happiness. Finns are really down to earth and are hoping for a decent job, some friends and family. If they can afford to buy their own house or have a car that is bonus but not necessary. I have never visited into the US but what I understand from talking to my American friends the expectations are high. Everyone wants to be millionare or otherwise somehow failed themself, friends or family/society or all of the above Im still not sure.
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Some people in the US are like this but I would not agree with your characterization. My grandfather was an immigrant after WW1 from Mariehamn (Åland) and I grew up around many immigrants from Scandinavia and their descendants. Of course, he spoke Swedish, not Finnish. Having lived in three different states and one country in Europe and visited many countries (including one Baltic state) in Europe, Asia, Oceania, etc., I have to say that I have never met anyone who stated a goal of becoming a "millionare." I told an older woman yesterday that she was rich; I have no idea of her financial resources but she has enough to meet her needs and that makes her "rich" in my opinion. I am also "rich" because I can meet my needs and help my kids when necessary but my net wealth is definitely less than $1,000,000!!
 
As a young person my main goal was just to survive to age 30. Many around me didn’t. The area I grew up in many of those that did had poor health. Even today one in five miners develop I believe black lung and most people worked the mines, steel or railroad industry as well as being small farmers as a necessity. Many didn’t live much past 65 and if they did they lived mainly on Social Security with some with small pensions. There were a few millionaires, mainly bankers and country music singers but you seldom saw them. After reaching 30 and having started a family my goals didn’t change much other than wanting to get my children raised and educated and eventually wanting to be able own the house we lived in and hopefully get by until I could retire and get Social Security with just enough to get by. It didn’t happen. After being in the military, teaching, starting several small garages, bankruptcy, and working in the transportation industry I was able to live in an RV that we owned as a nomad type seasonal workers. I at 71 have just stopped working for income and help my children and grandchildren with their needs while my wife still works hoping to make it til her retirement this fall at 66. We’re happy and managing but have lots of health issues to deal with, not really worried about daily financial survival as we live simply but still living in an RV hoping it stays together until we are unable to maintain the RV or deal with the certain deteriorating health by most likely living with one of our children who are nearby. We are rich compared to many we have lived and worked with as far as we are concerned but certainly not millionaires! Lol!!!
 
I think it's more the feeling that you "could" be a millionaire in this country given effort, the correct strategy, and a break or two, is what makes the American dream.

It represents hope. And hope was always the American dream.

Other countries aspired to have it. Some countries resent it. Some see it as a threat.

But that is what made America great. Not money. Not success. Hope.
 
With so many financial slaves as in working poor and children living in poverty it seems to me the idea of becoming a millionaire is like playing the lottery to win financial freedom. A very slim chance for the majority of those that play. I think most the rest of the world coming here today are just trying to survive and provide their children security and a chance to be educated. The reason more are coming is it has gotten impossible to do so in the country they are leaving. I can relate because of leaving Eastern Kentucky years ago and the reservation for the same reasons.
 
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But leaving part of the country to move to another part of the same country is different in many ways.
 
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