America the Miserable depending on your age!

[Happy Camper]

All rational arguments are welcome! If you'd like to inject some sanity...

I can I only inject reality.

Unfortunately, reality and sanity don't always occupy the same spaces these days.

 

[rruff]

Sad, but true...

 

[LargeMarge]

I'm not saying violence doesn't work. Of course it does.

I'm saying not all people have the tendency to be violent. It could be a learned behavior....

.
re -- dancing in the moonlight with flowers in our hair
.
I am here because my ancestors were better at violence than their challengers.
.
YouTuber Tim Larkin of Target Focus Training:
* "Violence is rarely the answer, but if violence is required, violence is the only answer."
.
Based on my experience, *non-violence* is a learned behavior.
And non-violence is usually enforced by people adept at incredible violence and continuing constantly-escalating threats of violence.
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I am pretty sure these days of peace and prosperity are an anomaly for humans.
Some dang foole always mucks it up by craving more than other folk are willing to tolerate.
.

 

[bullfrog !]

It is an enlightening experience when you get old and feeble and go from physically scaring people by your presence to becoming a sweet little old man that couldn’t hurt a flea. Lol!!!

 

[SLB_SA]

It is an enlightening experience when you get old and feeble and go from physically scaring people by your presence to becoming a sweet little old man that couldn’t hurt a flea. Lol!!!

I'm not sure if we are ever enlightened but who knows? Life is a comedy (& a tragedy & lots of other things) and Belle Époque will enlighten you as much as any other film. Or visit Freedonia -- I was "enlightened" in Fredonia and "unenlightened" in Russellville a few days ago. (Eclipse joke )

 

[dhuff]

You men are ridiculous. Trying to justify poor behavior today by giving examples of cave men. And we don't know what the heck they were up to. A female historian pointed out in one cave painting that the spears were actually stems of wheat. Depends how we decipher these things... from whose perspective.

<snip>

LOL, I was just gonna say! There seems to be a lot of "projecting" and speculating going on in some of these responses. "Women prefer High-T men" etc... Many arguments of this sort I've read in the past start from a person who wants to "prove" a certain opinion and then constructs arguments that lead the reader to that pre-arranged conclusion...

 

[rruff]

"Women prefer High-T men"

You left out the part "... with their bodies if not their minds".

Here are a couples studies.
https://time.com/3536451/masculinity-not-always-most-attractive/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...y-certain-women-prefer-man-whos-more-feminine

Interestingly both were trying to add some nuance to the obvious, since prior studies had shown that women show a clear preference for masculine men. In the 2nd one they discovered that women in less developed cultures preferred less masculine men, though they were puzzled at why this would be.

I'd venture that less developed cultures are likely to be very religious, with basically zero sexual freedom and marriages arranged. Women's primary concern is raising a family, and having a mate who will be devoted and attentive and dedicated to caring for the children is important... someone much like herself. She is probably sexually attracted to masculine men too, but since her freedom to experiment sexually and even choose a mate is greatly restricted, this instinct is overwhelmed by practical concerns. She may have noticed that the most aggressive males tend to spend a lot of time brawling at the bars and beating their wives, and would certainly not desire that. At any rate the "tribe" lives in a safe environment where protection from invaders hasn't been needed for a long time and probably won't be in the future. She wisely is attracted (with her mind if not her body) to the sort of man who will maximize her happiness and reproductive success in this safe environment.

In developed cultures religion and family structures are weak, sexual freedom is high, and so is the freedom to choose a mate. Women will usually wish to have children at some point, but are initially focused more on casual dating and sex, school and careers. As such they go for the guys who excite them and spin their props... which tend to be masculine ones. In other words they follow their instincts.

Many arguments of this sort I've read in the past start from a person who wants to "prove" a certain opinion and then constructs arguments that lead the reader to that pre-arranged conclusion...

That's not only "the pot calling the kettle black" it's an extremely lazy response.

I don't "make shit up" to support a preconceived notion. I don't have a dog in this hunt except to live in reality, and my hypotheses and theories are based on investigation, study, and thinking. If you have an alternative theory that is better supported by reality, I will change my mind... truly... I love learning new things!

 

[rruff]

It is an enlightening experience when you get old and feeble and go from physically scaring people by your presence to becoming a sweet little old man that couldn’t hurt a flea. Lol!!!

Have you heard of things called "guns"?

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^yes but I almost always took away someone’s else’s. Why carry one if lots of other people do and you know how to take them away from them! Almost 72 years old and lived in some of the most violent places in the US and never had to shoot anyone and no one has ever hit me with a bullet even though I’ve been shot at a few times. The only time I carried one was when I was in the military.

 

[rruff]

The only time I carried one was when I was in the military.

I'm with you, I don't carry one either... although I don't take guns away from people! I like being helpless... which allows me to blissfully wander about without a care in the world, and not worry about threats. If confronted, I'm friendly and unafraid, and focused only on deescalating and putting them at ease, because that's all I can do. 100% success rate so far. When they are expecting a fight or flight response it really confuses them when you do neither...

I have let the rage out a couple of times, when someone (and a pack of dogs in the other case) tried to kill me. In both instances I think I could have diffused the situation, but I just wasn't in the mood at the time. I was lucky I didn't get hurt badly or killed because I was seriously outmatched.

 

[bullfrog !]

Good to be lucky or smart, best to be both!

 

[LargeMarge]

You men are ridiculous...Please inform me who wants to kill us? Which country?

.
a)
Well, for one, how about Nation Of Islam.
They own many penitentiaries, convicts and staff.
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Who wants Nation Of Islam wiped from the planet?
Aryan Brotherhood and Hell's Angels.
And probably the Amish.
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Who regularly drive-by shoots hundreds of cartridges in the general vicinity of bus-stops?
And slaughters a dozen old-folks and children... while the intended vic strolls away, unharmed?
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The poisons and bombs don't need my name to rub me out.
The senders don't necessarily need me dead, it was just my unlucky day to be in the general vicinity.
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If I believed only recognized governments want to kill me, I think that would be dangerously delusional.
.
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b)
Based on the evidence, based on my experience, I am confident in saying:
* the entire human species is ridiculous.

 

[bullfrog !]

Seems a lot of religious groups have a history of waring against each other or being persecuted and killed by others or killing others. Many innocents have been simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time by religious groups as in the “Mountain Meadows Massacre” or Jim Jones group as an example of joining the wrong group. Our soldiers and government employees die or are injured fairly often at the hands of foreign enemies even during peace time, the “Cold War” wasn’t really all that cold, and today we have even more I imagine. Just a personal opinion. Lol!!! I’ve been to the hospital a few times thanks to our foreign friends efforts.

 

[Gr8ful]

Nothing wrong with owning guns. Here's a good history of Dr Gatling's Gun. Go to chapter 5 https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ref/MG/I/MG-2.html Custer had horse mounted Gatling guns but didn't take them to Little Bighorn. In 1893 Gatling added an electric motor to a Gatling & got a rate of 3500 rounds a minute. When GE started the Mini Gun project they started with his patents. The GE Mini guns ran at the same rate of fire. Wikipedia has much totally wrong info.

 

[0zz1]

I think I want to give my 2 cents on this discussion from a different point of view. Im from Finland which has now ranged #1 for the past 7 years. The secrete for Finlands #1 position is low expectations, its as simple as that. The formula is: expectations - life events = happiness. Finns are really down to earth and are hoping for a decent job, some friends and family. If they can afford to buy their own house or have a car that is bonus but not necessary. I have never visited into the US but what I understand from talking to my American friends the expectations are high. Everyone wants to be millionare or otherwise somehow failed themself, friends or family/society or all of the above Im still not sure.

 

[dhuff]

<snip> I have never visited into the US but what I understand from talking to my American friends the expectations are high. Everyone wants to be millionare or otherwise somehow failed themself, friends or family/society or all of the above Im still not sure.

As a lifelong U.S. citizen, you hit the nail on the head!

"John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." --- Ronald Wright, A Short History of Progress (2004)

 

[Gr8ful]

I have several Finnish friends in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Great people that will help folks anyway they can & they're laid back & happy. Flew up there once in a 1940 Taylorcraft with a friend who made us late. The plane had no electric so no lights & we were landing on a farm my wife & I bought. Just about too dark when the headlights came on. They realized we were late so lined their cars up on the grass & switched the lights on when they heard the plane! Great folks!

 

[rruff]

Everyone wants to be millionare or otherwise somehow failed themself, friends or family/society or all of the above Im still not sure.

True, but this doesn't happen in a vacuum... we are trained to have this attitude.

Democracy never got a solid foothold in the US. Maybe it's just too big and diverse. And as such too easy for the oligarchs to manipulate policies in their favor. So we have high income and wealth disparity, and we are told that this is right/best. We are infected with greed, rather than viewing this as a character flaw... and constantly fed the insane lie that we can all be rich. So of course, very few actually are rich, and all the rest have failed.

I get the impression that in Finland and other Scandinavian countries, financial security is a given. You probably won't get rich, but you won't be poor either. Nearly everyone will be able to afford a good life, not so different in living standard from everyone else's. Attitudes and policies are more focused on making life better for everyone, rather than trying to get a bigger share. Many benefits are universal and simple like healthcare. Careers are chosen more for aptitude and preference rather than salaries, and schooling is paid for as well.

I met a Swedish engineer at a conference many years ago, and quizzed him on what his life was like. One thing he said that struck me was "I would not go to work if I didn't enjoy it... no one would." So we discussed that in more depth, and how he was so relaxed about his career, and it suddenly dawned on me how much we in the US are motivated by fear! I used to think this was necessary, else no one would work, right? This was back in the 80s when the US probably still had the highest living standards, but now we are pretty far down the ranks! At the time it kinda blew my mind. Motivating through greed and fear just makes us anxious and unhappy, and it is not necessary.

 

[bullfrog !]

Seems a large number of people living in the USA feel they are living in survival mode whether they are or not! Reality is they are getting closer to being right every day in my opinion. Past time to start making changes for many.

 

[RonDean]

True, but this doesn't happen in a vacuum... we are trained to have this attitude.

Democracy never got a solid foothold in the US. Maybe it's just too big and diverse. And as such too easy for the oligarchs to manipulate policies in their favor. So we have high income and wealth disparity, and we are told that this is right/best. We are infected with greed, rather than viewing this as a character flaw... and constantly fed the insane lie that we can all be rich. So of course, very few actually are rich, and all the rest have failed.

I get the impression that in Finland and other Scandinavian countries, financial security is a given. You probably won't get rich, but you won't be poor either. Nearly everyone will be able to afford a good life, not so different in living standard from everyone else's. Attitudes and policies are more focused on making life better for everyone, rather than trying to get a bigger share. Many benefits are universal and simple like healthcare. Careers are chosen more for aptitude and preference rather than salaries, and schooling is paid for as well.

I met a Swedish engineer at a conference many years ago, and quizzed him on what his life was like. One thing he said that struck me was "I would not go to work if I didn't enjoy it... no one would." So we discussed that in more depth, and how he was so relaxed about his career, and it suddenly dawned on me how much we in the US are motivated by fear! I used to think this was necessary, else no one would work, right? This was back in the 80s when the US probably still had the highest living standards, but now we are pretty far down the ranks! At the time it kinda blew my mind. Motivating through greed and fear just makes us anxious and unhappy, and it is not necessary.

So true. I would be happier if the US had fewer at the absolute top and bottom of the income range and far more somewhere in the middle.
From https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262036160/the-vanishing-middle-class/

Why the United States has developed an economy divided between rich and poor and how racism helped bring this about.
The United States is becoming a nation of rich and poor, with few families in the middle. In this book, MIT economist Peter Temin offers an illuminating way to look at the vanishing middle class. Temin argues that American history and politics, particularly slavery and its aftermath, play an important part in the widening gap between rich and poor... Many poorer Americans live in conditions resembling those of a developing country—substandard education, dilapidated housing, and few stable employment opportunities. And although almost half of black Americans are poor, most poor people are not black. Conservative white politicians still appeal to the racism of poor white voters to get support for policies that harm low-income people as a whole, casting recipients of social programs as the Other—black, Latino, not like "us." Politicians also use mass incarceration as a tool to keep black and Latino Americans from participating fully in society. Money goes to a vast entrenched prison system rather than to education. In the dual justice system, the rich pay fines and the poor go to jail.