Advice on electric.

[WildTrappist]

I own a Macintosh which has no 12V adapter options. I have yet to install any electrical system into my van. I have read many many forums on electrical issues and still I am confused and concerned.

Right now I just want to be able to power my computer for 7 hours or so a day.

I read that power inverters are very inefficient.

I have very little money to work with, and I am a massage therapist; not an electrician.

My short term plan is to get and install one cheap walmart deep cycle marine battery.

My (quite) long term plan is to have a large bank of AGM batteries with solar panels.

The question is this:
What is the barest essential hardware necessary for me to create power for my computer usage in the short term?

I would like to be able to build upon this system in the future.

I have declined to post about my $$ difficulties as I am a very adept person and I don't want to appear as a "beggar".

I am quite satisfied with "anyone" saying that you can't help me....if that is the case. I have no expectation for an outcome.
You have all written a lot of very insightful posts regarding the subject. That's why I ask.

If you know of any VanDwellers in my area~ Tacoma Wa~ who might be of help for me, I would appreciate a bridge to them. I can trade excellent massage for their time.

I also will appreciate any advice any one can render.

My priorities right now are electric and heat. I have already purchased the 4 drawer storage unit Bob has suggested. I am budgeting for a second!

Thank you all for being inspired to "minister" in your way. I appreciate this website deeply.

In Health,
Alla.

Wild Trappist.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I'm on the East Coast, so all I can do is offer online advice.

Any house battery you have will need to be recharged. There are really only four practical ways to do this:

The vehicle's alternator, if you drive enough.
Solar panels.
Hooking up to shore power somewhere as needed.
Using a small generator.

So, do you drive a lot, or will you be parked in one spot for long periods of time?

Will you have occasional access to a wall outlet?

Regards
John

 

[WildTrappist]

Thank You OP!

I will need to be free from occasional shore power.
I strive to be as "off Grid as possible from the get go. and to have a system that is sound that I can build upon.

I have very limited funds, as I have stated, so I want my first try to be the best try......

I cannot afford a different computer at this time. I have to stick with my MAC.

So far the weather has been accommodating for me and I am grateful.

What is the BEST And Most EFFICIENT electrical system to install in my van? I am willing to trade Massage Therapy for help with wiring.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

If you will be driving regularly, as opposed to sitting in one place for long periods of time, you may get by with a heavy wire between the house and starter batteries, with either a manual switch or a simple solenoid to electrically isolate the two batteries when you are not driving. This will allow your alternator to charge the house battery when you are driving.

Regards
John

 

[SoulRaven]

Not enough info. Is the MAC a laptop. If so it will say how many watts it takes to operate on the power cord.
That info is needed to size the inverter.

 

[concretebox]

Don't be so eager to admit defeat before trying. Wiring an inverter to a battery is a pretty straight forward process. These cobra inverters are pretty cheap, the more watts you need the more you pay. (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...words=cobra+inverter&sprefix=cobra+in,aps,324) Find out how many watts your Mac needs and buy an inverter that is rated for about 200% of that or more.

The cobra inverters come with cables that clamp onto your battery terminals. Bare bones, you can pop the hood, clamp on your inverter and run an extension cord from the inverter to your computer. In the future when you can put more money/effort into you, you can run wires from the battery, through the firewall into the cab and connect the inverter permanently.

As someone else has said, you can charge your battery with your van's alternator. This would be your "cheap" charging solution until you can afford solar or a generator. Your alternator already has a wire running from it to the car-starting battery. Buy something like this: (http://www.amazon.com/Tekonsha-7000...d=1414588052&sr=1-6&keywords=battery+isolator) and run the wire from the alternator to it, then run two lines from the isolator to each of the batteries.

You'll need 8-guage wire (sometimes called 8AWG). You'll also need a crimping tool and electrical terminals. Something like this has both (http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Solderl...8251&sr=1-2&keywords=crimping+tool+electrical). That way you won't need a soldering iron.

 

[MrNoodly]

I own a Macintosh which has no 12V adapter options.

I take that to mean you have a desktop Mac rather than a laptop. If that's true, then I think your electrical needs and your vandwelling life would be greatly simplified by switching to a laptop. You can find used ones on Craigslist and such.

When I lived in a building and did freelance work, I had a big Mac Pro, three monitors and 7TB of hard drives. I downsized to a MacBook Air with a couple of portable hard drives I keep stashed for archiving. It was an adjustment, but it's more than adequate now. Desktop systems and their monitors take up a lot of space in a van and, as you suspect, suck a lot of power.

 

[itsnotliving]

Mr Noodly makes a good point - what type of Mac do you have? That info would drive a possible solution in the short-term with an eye to a longer-term plan.

Trading your service for another may be accomplished through Craigslist, finding a competent person might be more of an issue.

NOTE: WHILE NOT AN EXPERT ON RV/MARINE BATTERY INVERTER ISSUES I DO HAVE PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE WITH WIRING AND USING BATTERIES WITH A/C EQUIPMENT. So take what follows with that in mind.

An excellent resource can be found at Lifeline Batteries. No association with them and I am not recommending and/or endorsing their products.

They have a section on batteries in RV applications for sizing battery banks for DC-DC and DC-AC applications here.

A cheap inverter is less so if it does not fit into a longer-term plan although multiple inverters could be used in the future.

Although hooking up an inverter appears simple there are some important safety issues.

Sizing the cable correctly for the inverter, the thickness, is important especially as there are unlikely to be any fuses or breakers between the battery and the inverter.

For all; how many of you with inverters have some safety device such as a fusible link twixt battery and inverter?

Crimping terminals to cables is OK if done properly and less than OK if not. Finding terminals that suit the cable and fit the inverter may be difficult but RV, marine and even car audio stores should stock what you need.

Batteries themselves can be dangerous. All (yes, even the fabled AGM) batteries out-gas hydrogen which is explosive so they need to be located where there is at least some ventilation and ideally located in a (ventilated) battery box so if the battery itself explodes the blast, shrapnel any acid is directed up rather than everywhere. The clothes I wore THAT day, as I was working next to the battery box, eventually fell apart from the acid even though the blast went up. Fortunately, I wear glasses.

Apparently deep cycle batteries were not the correct application for a constantly charged battery backup for a phone system. On the job learning!

Marine batteries are described as deep-cycle as they are (generally) not charged up on a boat with an outboard motor. Constantly charging marine batteries increases the risk of battery failure with the possibility of explosion. Same with overcharging at too high a voltage.

Large truck batteries/Gel packs may be a better option in low current uses (like powering a laptop maybe?) unless your use of the battery results in taking the charge through 'deep cycles' - full charge to low charge between charging which is the most likely scenario running lots of stuff off an inverter.

I came across a really well-thought out wiring layout for a boat. I'm sure everyone here has similar layouts. Note the use of fuses/fusible links.

Article on AGM use and out-gassing from the same article here. Seems there may be lots of articles on out-gassing there. Boats are probably scarier situations than vans that have lots of air gaps (not good in boats).

I'm new to the forum and probably ruffled a few feathers with this post but make no apologies. I do take constructive/corrective criticism well though and I encourage dialog (general dislike of emoticons but they say so much.....)

 

[akrvbob]

Folks, you're all offering her great and correct advice, but we need to keep it very, very simple, and very very cheap.

It's a tough nut to crack!
Bob

 

[coolmom42]

Does your vehicle have a 12 V outlet anywhere?

 

[highdesertranger]

we need more info. it was asked but not answered. do you drive a lot everyday? is your computer a lap top or a desk top? what is the wattage draw of the computer? we can give a little more precise advice with a little more info. as far as the battery splitting solenoids I have had good results with standard brand contentious duty solenoids' you can get these at a regular auto parts store for about 50 bucks. but first we need more info. highdesertranger

 

[Oberneldon]

Not all inverters are the same - must check with computer mfg to see if it is safe to run on cheaper modified sign wave inverter or pure sign wave inverter. read the following link for advise on this. http://www.donrowe.com/power-inverter-faq-a/258.htm it would greatly help to find someone in your area that can work with you. I'm on the east coast too.

 

[Bdog1]

When I travel I charge my laptop from a $20 lighter socket plug in inverter. The laptop will last 4 hrs stand alone after that. Since I have a newer HD battery in my van I know I can also charge it when parked, but that is something you may need to ease into. Maybe a portable jump box might be a nice backup for you. Not the best choice technically, but very convenient. Maybe $45 on sale.

 

[LeeRevell]

Does anyone here use the higher capacity batteries for their laptops? Are they worth the investment?
Haven't checked yet to see if there even is one for mine yet. I would like to get a spare or two.

 

[66788]

I own a Macintosh which has no 12V adapter options. I have yet to install any electrical system into my van. I have read many many forums on electrical issues and still I am confused and concerned.

Right now I just want to be able to power my computer for 7 hours or so a day.

I read that power inverters are very inefficient.

I have very little money to work with, and I am a massage therapist; not an electrician.

My short term plan is to get and install one cheap walmart deep cycle marine battery.

My (quite) long term plan is to have a large bank of AGM batteries with solar panels.

The question is this:
What is the barest essential hardware necessary for me to create power for my computer usage in the short term?

I would like to be able to build upon this system in the future.

I have declined to post about my $$ difficulties as I am a very adept person and I don't want to appear as a "beggar".

I am quite satisfied with "anyone" saying that you can't help me....if that is the case. I have no expectation for an outcome.
You have all written a lot of very insightful posts regarding the subject. That's why I ask.

If you know of any VanDwellers in my area~ Tacoma Wa~ who might be of help for me, I would appreciate a bridge to them. I can trade excellent massage for their time.

I also will appreciate any advice any one can render.

My priorities right now are electric and heat. I have already purchased the 4 drawer storage unit Bob has suggested. I am budgeting for a second!

Thank you all for being inspired to "minister" in your way. I appreciate this website deeply.

In Health,
Alla.

Wild Trappist.

I have several inverters and you have none. Doesn't sound right does it?

Tell you what. PM me an address where I can send you a free inverter that will work with your computer. It has clip on terminals and is virtually new.

 

[rinella]

Check out this link: http://globetrooper.com/notes/solar-power-macbook/ They even show you how to read your adapter to determine the power requirements.

Also, tell us what model mac you have. You definitely can buy DC to DC converters. http://www.mikegyver.com/

 

[Seraphim]

Simple and very, very expensive? Let's look first at 'possible'

Checking the apple support site, most desktops and monitor combinations seem to draw at least 175 watts of power. Divide 175 by 12 that's about 14.5 amps an hour. 14.5 x 7 hours a day is about 102 amps of power that needs to be recharged each day. The original poster would have to drive about 3 hours a day to recharge the battery, or pretty much continuously run a generator. She'd need about 12 hours of sunlight a day for solar. Or overnight shore power (at a guess based on experience and and a battery monitor).

None of these sound practical, although she never answered the question about how much driving she intended to do a day.

If she has a desktop and monitor, I don't see there is an answer.

 

[akrvbob]

I don't see an answer either. The only way to power a desktop for 7 hours a day is with money! And in Tacoma in the winter the only real solution is finding shore power.
Bob

 

[akrvbob]

Actually that made the think of the real answer:

Run an ad in Craigslist and offer to pay someone to park in their driveway and run an extension cord. usually $100 a month will get you numerous offers.

It's not free but it's do-able. However, some people will only want you in the driveway at night so that could be a problem.

Another possibility is a storage space. You could spend the daytime in it using it's power. That's not free either, but it may be doable.
Bob

 

[Seraphim]

For Apple notebooks:

The BEST wattage I could fnd for moderate use was 50 watts, for a newer laptop. Older units as high as 150 watts at moderate usage.

50 watts translates to about 4.17 amps per hour, times 7 hours of usage equals about 29 amps a day. This would be about 4 hours generator charging, possibly 1 hour driving time (not just idling the engine), or 4 hour of sunlight for solar.

So we need to need to know what computer the original poster has and, if she were willing to share the information, how much money she can afford to spend (inexpensive means different things to different people), before a realistic answer may be given.