Adding "house" batteries

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I have just purchased 2 6v 230 AH deep cycle golf cart batteries for $109 each at batteries plus locally. I will be ordering a renogy 100w kit soon. I would like to also have the batteries charged off the alternator, especially in the mean time pre-solar.

I don't want to drain the starter and like the idea of a continuous duty solenoid to separate the two. O'reilly had a 4 post solenoid for sale by BWD the S55 model. I can't find specs on it, even inside the box or on their site. Is this one okay to use or should I get something different?

I have a 25ft run from where my 6vs sit in the back of my E350, to the engine bay. The solenoid suggests 10ga wire, should I go thicker or is that sufficient?  Where all do I want fuses?  I know the cable to the battery bank should have one but where else?

Sould I upgrade the charge controller ordered on renogys page for $40, get the regular, and/or order something different else where?

Sounds like morningstar triton battery monitor is the way to go to finish the system up.

After all this research, how far away am I? Am I missing any major (or minor) components? 

Thanks for any help I can get!
 
While most circuits only need one fuse, the wire between the engine and the house batteries needs TWO, the reason being that you have two potential sources of voltage. 

Visualize a short circuit developing in the middle of your 25 foot wire between the house and the engine.  If you've only fused the engine end, the house battery is still capable of powering half the wire and causing a fire.

I think 10 gauge is completely inadequate for any serious amount of power transfer.  I would want at least 4 gauge.

Regards
John
 
+1 on 200 watts solar for 200+ AH battery.  Your batteries will be happier.

+1 on using two fuses.  One fuse should be within 8" of battery (ABYC code), the other close to the alternator.  Fuse size is to protect the wire, so get the largest for your wire size (less voltage drop across fuse).

as to wire: 10 ga wire will give you a ~10% drop in voltage, 4 ga will give you ~3% drop and 0 ga will give you ~1% drop for 25 foot run (50' round trip).
http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/#

No experience with Renogy charge controllers.  Is it programmable?

-- Spiff
 
Voltage drop is certainly a concern with too thin a wire, but thicker wire also allows more amps to flow not just because of less voltage drop, but because the voltage regulator will better be able to 'see' the depleted house battery, instead of the fully charged engine battery.  The VR then should allow hogher voltages to be held for longer, and not drop to 13.7 so quickly, where few amps flow.

If the 25 feet is one way distance, consider 2awg cable, and definitely go for more than 100 watts of solar with 232Ah of capacity.  If you are only running one (+) cable and using the frame for ground, then run another cable from nearby frame to alternator mounting bolt and make sure the frame connection is pristine, tight, and slather it with thick grease after tightening it.

10 gauge and 100 watts and your batteries will be chronically undercharged, if you ever discharge them below 85%.

The quality of the solenoid can also make or break a system.  The better solenoids have silver alloy main contacts.  When solenoids fail they tend to fuse the contacts, and then there is no separation of batteries with engine off.  It will still make nearly the same sound when the electromagnet fires. Try and find one rated for at least 100 amps continuous.  Some solenoids also might be the latching type, and this type only needs a momentary switch of  12v to engage and disengage, rather than a 12v continuous on or off.  make sure to test the type you get as the product descriptions are not always obvious.  Apply 12v to the smaller contacts, does not matter which is which and there should be continuity between the larger contacts.  Remove the 12v from the smaller contacts and there should be no continuity between the larger contacts.

Latching solenoids do have advantages in that they do not consume any power when engaged, but they must be wired with a momentary switch and a light to indicate what position they are in.  If you apply a constant 12v to a latching solenoid, it will get seriously hot and fail, So test what you get, and wire it accordingly.

To prolong the life of the contacts, you do not want the solenoid allowing the house batteries to assist engine starting.  In my Dodge the Blower motor circuit is deactivated during engine cranking, so I would choose this circuit to activate the solenoid.  You can put an illuminated switch inline too.  this can be great when the batteries are really low, and the belts damp.  YOu wait for a few minutes for engine to warm and dry the belts before flipping the switch and letting alternator juice flow to depleted house bank.   With hungry batteries and a damp belt, it can squeal as the belt slips.  Bad for the belt, bad for the pulleys, bad for the eardrums.

Also, if delicate electronics are hooked to the house batteries, then voltage spikes will not travel back to house batteries when starter is turned off and possibly damage sensitive electronics.

I recommend a separate voltmeter for engine battery and house batteries one can easily see from driver's seat.  If both voltmeters always read the same, then the solenoid's internal main contacts have fused.  You can also see when the engine battery is getting weak as voltage will drop lower and lower during engine cranking.

These 3 wire voltmeters have a voltage sense wire.  Run i this sense wire( white) right to the battery(+), and calibrate it with a trusted digital multimeter.  Mine come on only with my ignition.
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Digital-...qid=1443500797&sr=1-4&keywords=drok+voltmeter

Do not get the less expensive 2 wire voltmeters as they take voltage readings from wherever you take power from, and this can be significantly lower, or higher than the battery terminals and that is where you want the voltage readings to originate.

My only complaint with these voltmeters is they are too bright driving at night.  I got the green ones before they offered the red ones.  I put two layers of 35% window tint in front of them to tame them down.

having 2 voltmeters will also allow you to see how effective the alternator is in charging the distant house bank.  Far too many people act like a 15 minute drive is all that is required.  It takes about 4 hours of driving after the batteries reach 80% charged for 100% to occur, and that is if the voltage is held at ~14.5 for those 4 hours.

Few vehicles will allow voltage to be held this high for this long.

Get a Hydrometer:
http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4619-Prof...502419&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=otc+hydrometer

And when you believe the batteries are fully charged, this tool will usually show you they are not, and more time at absorption voltage, ~14.5v, is needed.  This specific hydrometer is great as it tells you how much to add or subtract from the readings to compensate for electrolyte temperature.  The Cells in the middle will be hotter when charging for a while.

It is best to establish a baseline Specific gravity reading when the batteries are new and fully charged.  Measure and record each cell's reading and take note of level in the cells.  They do not come perfectly even out of the factory. Some will always read a little lower than others SG wise, so it is important to note which ones, and then later on you can just test that one weakest cell if time is an issue.

Some cells also tend to use more water than other cells, so you can just check that cell when you are curious as to how much water they are consuming.

You do not have to take these extra steps if you do not really concern yourself with getting the most out of the batteries.   If you do initially, then you can get a good feeling for how they respond to your charging sources and not concern yourself as much with thier care.  but since they need watering regualrly, dipping the hydrometer when you think they are full can be quite enlightening.

I use my hydrometer to fill the cells with distilled h20 as well.  The number of bulb squeezes to fill them up can be recorded too.  Batteries use more water as they age, so the SG readings and battery levels can tell you when the end is approaching.
 
Thank you all for the feedback. I asked for a continuous duty solenoid and that was all they had, no info to let me know otherwise. Though it does say on the instructions run one 10ga wire to starter battery from one post. One 10ga to the accessory battery. One 16ga to ground. And the 4th post 16ga to key turning accessory on. The fact that it said two batteries is what left me most uncertain. Does seem a lot cheaper to order from amazon.

The two fuse idea makes sense and will be done. I also thought 10ga was a bit thin but was going off the directions. I was thinking 8 minimum and leaning towards 6. No sense cheaping out on the wiring though, I will have to find some 4.

Is 200 watts of solar still recommended even with minimal use? I am pretty busy and not in the van all that much. Mostly phone charging off 12v plug overnight, and a 12v fan on warmer nights. Lighting too but can't see it being run all that much. The 230AH is just what they had for golfcarts and it seemed like a good price compared to what I had seen elsewhere. Is it possible to buy too much battery reserve capacity?

Lastly, I don't know much about charge controllers in general. 
http://www.renogy-store.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=KIT-RV100D

The kit comes with the renogy adventurer standard. I can upgrade to a 30A PWM Viewstar controller for $40. I don't know enough to say anything about either or any other controller for that matter.

Thanks again for all the help fellas
 
The deeper you cycle the batteries, the more important it is to have a higher solar wattage to battery capacity ratio.

You can likely get away with 100 watts with your stated usage, if you use fatter cable from the alternator and drive somewhat frequently. The charge controller will likely be able to handle 200 watts or much more, So even if you only use so much now, you might use considerable more int he future and accounting for future upgrades now is much easier than doing it all over later. It is really hard to have too much solar. What you spend on it will just have the batteries last that much longer and give you a bigger buffer for bad weather or when panel shading is a factor during parts of the day.

It is entirely possible to have too much battery capacity and too little solar.. Any solar is better than no solar, but if relying on Solar for recharging, then the solar needs to get the batteries to absorption voltage by noon or 1PM at the latest. The batteries require being brought to 100% full charge regularly You do not want them just hovering in the 75% range day after day.

If the solenoid said use 10 gauge wire, it is not rated for much current. Avoid.

Replace interior Incandescent lights with LED bulbs. Cheap and easy and the easiest way to save battery power.
 
if you read the link I posted it is straight off the BWD website. on the line "contentious duty" it says "NO" then it goes on to list the vehicles it fits. it's a starter solenoid. highdesertranger
 
Thanks for the clarification HDR. I wasn't debating what you were saying, just relaying what the parts store guy claimed.

I have reconsidered a few aspects. I am going to place the batteries more towards the middle/front of the van.  Plan is to put a roof vent over the bed which puts the panel(s) towards the middle. Reduces overall wire needs and makes more sense. New bed also reduces ability to store golf carts under anymore.

The solenoid linked here along with hydrometer have been ordered. Also roof rack for panels that I saw elsewhere on this site also en route. I am still working out what panel(s) to get. I like the suggestions for 200w min and plan to go that route instead of 100w.  That said what do you guys think of this panel?

https://denver.craigslist.org/mad/5211251504.html

There are 4 posted and at less than a dollar a watt w/out shipping I am very tempted to get two. First, is the 24v panel ok for a 12v system? I believe so just need assurance. It seems 400w is the cut off of many controllers, should I get 1 per panel of the smaller size or 1 larger controller if I went with two of these panels? I don't think I need two panels worth of power but like the ability to expand my consumption if needed. Matching panels seems better than mismatched panels is the thinking. 

Thank you everyone for all the assistance, this is such a wonderful community. I look forward to the days when I am better versed in van dwelling knowledge and can be as helpful as you have all been.
 
Forgot to ask about the voltmeters recommended by sternwake. Are those in place of a more detailed battery monitor or do you use them in conjunction with such a device? To clarify my question, would I use those if I also had a trimetric?
 
A 24v solar panel requires a MPPT charge controller when used to charge 12v batteries.


My recommendations of the 2 voltmeters on the dashboard, easily seen by the driver, is more of a learning tool,  and to see if the Solenoid has failed.  If the voltmeters always read the same, the solenoid has fused contacts and is not working as designed.  This is not incredibly common but when it does happen, the person usually remains unaware until they deplete their house batteries, and engine battery too.  Usually engine starting batteries retain higher voltages when fully charged, compared to deep cycle batteries, and as such when the solenoid fails and keeps the batteries in parallel at all times, the starting battery gets worked harder, and since it was never designed to handle deep cycling, dies prematurely, and then is a drag on the house batteries, degrading them quicker.

One can also see the engine battery held at ~14.2v and the house battery slowly climb up there too the longer one drives.

The 2 voltmeters are not necessary, just a recommendation, and having a trimetric is a great tool, that requires moving some stock vehicle wiring to properly count alternator current.
 
Thanks again for the valuable assistance SternWake! I am pretty excited as everything should be here with in the next week (took longer than I thought, so much homework this week). I went with the http://www.renogy-store.com/200W-12V-Polycrystalline-Premium-Kit-p/kit-premium200p.htm

200w poly with mppt and Mt-5 tracer meter premium kit. My solenoid should be here today, hydrometer and roof rack maybe tomorrow. Just need to put together a box for my batteries and figure out the wiring and fuses I think. Looking at ordering some wiring and a hydraulic crimper that I read about in another thread by you Stern.
 
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