$30k build tiny house? Too expensive

[Simran]

The things you refer to as shocking are still commonplace in the rural midwest. Our home has one bathroom. Sure the newer houses are larger when built today but many of the houses you speak of are still occupied by typical families in the rural midwest. People here, by-and-large, do not live the exorbitant life styles you see on the left or right coast. Back in `08, when the real estate market tanked, the sell off of homes was nothing like it was in the news; not even close. It actually, was almost unheard of in the rural midwest. People here pride themselves in paying off their homes. Mine will be paid for in 6 years. That said, it isn't worth a fortune either; but it IS home.
The nearest WalMart is 34 miles away! I mention it only because many people use it as a benchmark to how far out in the sticks you live!

 

[GrinningPanther]

Hi everyone. Here's a Youtube link (video) to a guy who shows in detail the materials he used to build a "14 x 14 solar cabin for $2,000." Yes, two thousand dollars.

If I remember clearly from when I watched the video months ago, he lives where there are no zoning restrictions, and I don't know if he's counting his solar system materials in that $2,000 total. But the design seems legitimate and straightforward...and do-able. And he does live there in real life.

Of course, a person may want to use slightly stronger materials in one part or another, or add more insulation, or tweak some other things, but I think it's worth looking at to get the "gray cells" thinking on just how manageable it is (without zoning laws) to build oneself a simple home.

If anyone checks out the link, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. Because in the back of my mind, I'm holding on to the possibility of building something like that someday.

Here's the link:

GP

 

[akrvbob]

Just to share a little building tidbit, I don't know why anyone would build a 14x14 anything. Everything in the building world works around multiples of 4 (preferably 8 but 4 will do) because plywood comes in 4 foot sheets. Anything other than in multiples of 4 results in needless waste of material. In a small house it won't be much money but it will still be wasted time and effort.
Bob

 

[GrinningPanther]

Bob,

That sounds like a very good point. I don't know why he did 14 x 14. Surely he had plenty of land available to build, for example, 16 x 16. Hmm, that's a mystery.

Thanks for the feedback. See? There's one tweak already to his plan!

GP

 

[Simran]

I watched his video and found it interesting. I won't say it wouldn't work because it is hard to argue with results. His building methods are a little unconventional though.

 

[westriver]

Just to share a little building tidbit, I don't know why anyone would build a 14x14 anything. Everything in the building world works around multiples of 4 (preferably 8 but 4 will do) because plywood comes in 4 foot sheets. Anything other than in multiples of 4 results in needless waste of material. In a small house it won't be much money but it will still be wasted time and effort.
Bob

Actually Bob, having been in the business for a few decades, I would have to say that you are sort of correct. First, limiting waste is a matter of sticking with multiples of two, four and eight are not requirements. For example, A 14' square structure could be nearly waste free. When framing a floor, 2"X10"s will span 14' on 16" centers, but a 16' span needs 2"X12" joists which are not a commodity item, and typically much more expensive. Therefore a 14' square structure can have floors without a center beam, or expensive deep joists. As for sheathing, a 14' wall will used three and a half sheets of material, so the entire exterior can be done with an even 14 sheets. With a foot of overhang on the gable ends of the roof, the roof would be 16' wide and also sheathed with zero waste. As for framing, plate material is not only available in 14' lengths, like floor joists, it is a high volume commodity, and often priced lower, per board foot, than 12' and 16' stock.

Basically I could build a post foundation 14' square cabin, with six posts, and not much more than sawdust for a scrap pile, for a few dollars per sq. ft. less than a 16' sq. one.

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Sorry, I wanted to add this to my last post, and waited too long to edit:

One factor that gets overlooked by DIYers is commodity pricing and volume, when it comes to material pricing. Most of us are aware that this is a major factor when needing parts for our vehicle. For example, In nearly every small town in the country, you can go to the local parts store and pay a reasonable amount for brake pads for a Ford or Chevy van. OTOH, doing the same thing for a VW Vanagon might cost twice as much, or take a few days waiting for parts. The building industry is the same way. Any local yard has a nice pile of 2x4x14' pine for wall plates, since it is one of the most common size used in new construction. The same yard may not even stock 2x4x18' pine, or charge you 2X the 14' price, since they only sell a few per year. It's the same with doors, window and other products. A high quality, fiberglass clad entry door for a cabin might run $199, because it is in stock, and the yard buys 30 at a time. Add a simple window to the door. Now it needs to be ordered, and built at their supplier, and it's a $350 door.

 

[Patrick46]

I'm thinking that he built it a 14 x 14 because that as big as he could build on this land without a building permit, or having to meet any building codes.
And as for Westriver's point of his framing techniques...I doubt he built this to meet any building or construction requirement codes.

it's still a very cool little place though. I like it...but I'd prefer mine to be on wheels!

 

[westriver]

I'm thinking that he built it a 14 x 14 because that as big as he could build on this land without a building permit, or having to meet any building codes.
And as for Westriver's point of his framing techniques...I doubt he built this to meet any building or construction requirement codes.

it's still a very cool little place though. I like it...but I'd prefer mine to be on wheels!

you are probably right about the size requirements. In my area, detached buildings under 1000 sq. ft are of little interest to any code folks, in other locations 200 ft. is pretty common, and he is just a whisker under that.

My comments about framing techniques have nothing to do with codes, but are more about commonly accepted framing styles and waste. Particularly when it comes to building width. not only will everything become more expensive with a 16' wide building, but if it ever has to be moved, when it comes to legally moving wide loads, 14' isn't exactly hassle free, but 16' is a real PITA and here it's the difference between getting difficult, expensive permits and police escort, or just following a flag car with a wide load sign.

 

[GrinningPanther]

Westriver, complete novice that I am when it comes to the building arts, I would not have known any of the information you're sharing...so I appreciate it.

And Patrick46, yes, one very glaring "deficiency" the little house has is that it's not on wheels.

For me though, it's good to know that if I want or need to settle down again in a stationary house, it doesn't have to be the standard expensive options.

GP

 

[akrvbob]

I've only built a coupe houses so I am coming from the point of view of a total novice who is building his house alone, not from a pro with a framing crew. I think that applies to the majority of the people here. A couple points on 14x14, given the choice I would still build a 12x16 building which is very nearly the same size.

1) Twelve foot joists are cheaper than 14 foot.
2) I guess my area is different from yours, 12 and 16 footers are much more common than 14s.
3) I can raise an 8 foot wall alone but not a 14 foot wall (although to be fair I never tried, it just seemed too hard--an 8 foot wall alone is enough of a challenge). They were heavy because I sheathed my walls first. Again, because I couldn't think of any way to hold up a sheet of T-111 and nail it in at the same time.
4) My point wasn't just material waste, it was waste of time. Yes, I can rip my plywood and I can buy 12 foot 2x4s and cut them in half but when you are building a house alone on the weekend and you've got a short summer season to git-r-done, wasted time becomes pretty important.
5) 12 foot 2x4s are more expensive than 8s and finding good straight ones is much harder.

My advice stands, if your a novice building your first house, make things as easy as possible for yourself and build it in multiples of 4. If your a pro with a framing crew--I'm much too inexperienced to offer you any advice!
Bob

 

[westriver]

Hey Bob, I guess I have a comprehension issue. I read your post, and the one after it, then combined them to add the 16' X 16' comparison, and attributed it to you.

As for your specific points, here in the northeast, we have a lot of 14' lumber since we tend to build our homes 28' deep. When I do a lumber list, precut studs are largest count, followed by 14' stock in 4,6 or 10" size. As for designing something to avoid sheathing cuts, sorry, but that goes a bit too far for me. It take a minute to rip a sheet, and having an industrial grade router on the job takes all the work out of cuts for windows and doors already, so time spent ripping a few sheets on a shed sized building isn't worth worrying about.
There are tons of tricks to framing with a very small crew and even alone. Fine Homebuilding Magazine used to carry a book of techniques by a guy who makes a living framing houses completely by himself. There are several systems for raising a typical 8' tall wall alone, including a method involving jacking posts made entirely of a pair of 12' 2x6s and some scrap blocks. On many occasions I have erected 40' long walls with one helper, and a few home made wall jacks. You're right about sheathing, I never passed on the chance to install it while the wall was laying down. Nailing sheathing to a standing wall is one of those tasks we used to compare to a monkey screwing a football. tough to do, and tough to watch.
Finally, if you are stick framing any kind of shed, or tiny house, as you note, it is going to be cheaper and easier if you limit the width to 12'.

 

[mconlonx]

I was looking hard into tiny houses back when I was a "we" and before my decision to go with a van. $30k is steep, compared to what I was budgeting -- $10k and liberal use of recycled material would do the job. There's stories out there of many building cheap for less than $10k, even one woman who used all recycled and used material to put together a tiny house for $5k. And these are built mainly on a car carrier that retails for $2-3k when new; even used they are not too cheap.

If I had a chunk of land where the zoning is friendly, a shed shell like this one...

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Handy-Ho...t-x-12-ft-Wood-Storage-Shed-18631-8/202205311

...and as much as I'm sinking into the van build-out would result in a pretty swanky tiny house. Probably be able to build a shed even cheaper on my own with liberal use of recycled material.

-----------------------

Many of those who build tiny houses get them qualified as RVs. So RV rules apply, not regular zoning. Same with a tiny house on land -- that 8x12 shed above falls within the 100sq' in my town for putting it on property without a building permit, and with no utilities hookup, living off-grid, no one the wiser... nosy neighbors excepted...

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

The more i think about it, they are basically just making thier own wooden camper. I see pretty decent campers on cr for 3k and under all the time, and everything is pro installed for you already. I guess they avoid the trailer stigma and get hipster status tho

 

[offroad]

Mconionx - like the idea of checking on RV zoning parking status on a chunk of land with no utilities. Maybe put up a prefab shed that could be used as extra guest housing. Something to consider.

 

[Fox]

I've looked into tiny houses before. I've even gone so far as to go to one of those get-togethers to learn more about it from people who are experienced in these matters.

My gripe here, and it is apparently the biggest obstacle to tiny houses, is to find a place that is willing to let you park it. Even when it is on a trailer (thereby bypassing city ordinance limitations), you still need either your own land (and perhaps consider building and installing a septic tank and running water or drill a well there), or you need to pay a monthly lease in a mobile park that will allow tiny houses.

Contrast that with a van, where you can park it just about anywhere without paying a lease or property taxes, and that's why I am here today.

 

[jeanontheroad]

I have seen a couple "tiny homes" that were beautifully built. But they were expensive. They are zoned out of most areas as stationary homes because of square footage requirements. They are heavy, which makes them bad on the road as trailers. But one, in particular, was like walking into an exquisite piece of furniture.

 

[offroad]

More discussions.

I thought you would like this article from The Slate Magazine for iPhone

What It’s Like to Live in an 84-Square-Foot House
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/...he_big_tiny_by_dee_williams_published_by.html


Sent from my iPhone

 

[jeanontheroad]

If you compare a brand new tiny house to a brand new RV trailer of comparable usable space, including the tiny house loft, is it that much different? Tiny houses are better insulated, usually more solidly built and they have a "real house" feel that some people like. Also, they tend to have pricey things like composting toilets that RV'S don't have. Of course, that means that they are very heavy. But they are generally built to remain in one place, not to be travel.

It's all in how you plan to use it. I love my moho because it lets me be a comfortable gypsy. But weight considerations mean that some parts of it are not very sturdy (to the point of actually being flimsy) and it's not insulated well. If we were going to settle down and stay put, a tiny house might be the way we'd go.

 

[LeeRevell]

I suspect much of the high cost of the Tiny Homes comes in the form of the various fees, permits and inspections needed. Same as for a regular 'normal home', but it is a far higher percentage of the overall cost. If it was just materials alone, especially using recycled stuff, they'd be very cheap indeed!

 

[jeanontheroad]

I don't think tiny homes have the same fees and inspections. They are trailers, not houses.