2020 RTR location??https://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums/images/smilies/huh.gif

[Suanne]

The RTRs have historically been an event that is centered around being a community.  Although we have seminars, over the years a smaller and smaller percentage of the total RTR participants attend the seminars.  Rather, people come for community.  Attendees want that experience and connection of being camped among a large number of like-minded others.  This is the proven draw of the RTRs.  So, we are working hard to continue to meet that need, to keep it free for participants, and to find other creative ways to pay for the RTRs' ever-increasing costs.

That being said, we also recognize that the RTR is not for everyone.  So, all of the "alternative" ideas that you are proposing really hold a lot of value.  I read them with much interest and recognize many possibilities to meet our mobile community's needs in multiple ways.

For me, it's about adding other venues and ways of organizing ourselves to what is already available, rather than replacing the RTRs, a proven gathering that meets many's need for a large, temporary nomadic camp.

Please keep the ideas coming.

Here are some added gatherings we are actively developing -- Training Centers (private land where folks learn dispersed camping and other nomad-related skills, starting with HOWA's land in Douglas, AZ), more Caravans (especially themed Caravans that are not activity based to avoid a need for permits), smaller RTR-type gatherings throughout the year and across the country (dependent on finding private land to buy or lease along with the local government's blessing), more Build Outs across the country (again dependent on finding private land to buy or lease).  

In addition, I'm loving all of the impromptu gatherings, and get-togethers organized by many others within the larger mobile community.  Together we are much bigger and more significant than any one organization, personality, or cultural phenomenon.  Together -- vandwellers, vanlifers, RV'ers -- we are an impressive group with impressive numbers.  Truly, we know and live a lifestyle that could have a significant impact on other people's happiness and freedom, if they only knew.

The more gatherings that practice responsible mobile living, the better.

 

[Qxxx]

Here are some added gatherings we are actively developing -- Training Centers (private land where folks learn dispersed camping and other nomad-related skills, starting with HOWA's land in Douglas, AZ), more Caravans (especially themed Caravans that are not activity based to avoid a need for permits), smaller RTR-type gatherings throughout the year and across the country (dependent on finding private land to buy or lease along with the local government's blessing), more Build Outs across the country (again dependent on finding private land to buy or lease).  

Suanne, these all sound like good ideas, especially the education related ones. It's amazing that RTR has grown almost exponentially over the past several years, so it's not difficult to see why this might be an issue with BLM. Beginning to look like another Burning Man or Rainbow family to them. 

The possibly of having several smaller RTRs across the country would be great. This would attract people who can't or don't want to travel cross country. It's also nice to see several small get togethers happened this summer in the east through the Gatherings section. 

The idea of using private land sounds like a possibility, with less gobmint bureaucracy issues, although the owners would no doubt want some reimbursement. Eg, Yazgur's farm for Woodstock. Has HOWA contacted any indian reservations about this? I am thinking especially of the big reservation along the Colorado River between Parker and Ehrenberg.

 

[VanDwellerMod]

Has HOWA contacted any indian reservations about this? I am thinking especially of the big reservation along the Colorado River between Parker and Ehrenberg.

Yes.  I have contacted the Colorado River Indian Reservation (CRIT).  They didn't return my call.  And, now, a HOWA volunteer of Native American decent is trying ... so far with no success.

Thanks for the feed back about HOWA's programs-in-development.  Regardless if on public or private land, working successfully with the overseeing governmental powers is extremely necessary for long-term sustainability -- BLM, NFS, county land use, etc.  We are working it!

 

[Qxxx]

Thanks. There is also the massive Navaho reservation, you'd think they might have a small corner for an RTR. And also the Fort Apache reservation, Whiteriver. When I visited there some years ago, the place was like the end of the world. You'd think some of them light like some financial help, say if some reimbursement were coming. Even though HOWA probably prefers RTR be free for visitors, I would imagine most vanlifers would be happy to see some money going to the reservations.

 

[highdesertranger]

I would hope you realize that CRIT is not the only tribe with land in the Colorado River Valley. there is also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Mojave_Indian_Reservation

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Yuma_Indian_Reservation

I would also like to point out that the agriculture land on these reservation is leased to outside farmers who also own large tracts of land around the reservations. I know for fact that around the Ft. Mohave reservation that there is a lot of this private property that is fallow from year to year. I can't believe one of these farmers won't want to make money off a fallow field.

there is also large tracts of private property around. Blythe and Palo Verde.

of course now it's the last minute. so it all is probably a mute point.

highdesertranger

 

[Qxxx]

I see there is also the Chemehuevi Reservation directly across the river from Lake Havasu City.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/C...78788e8e6f23f!8m2!3d34.5198522!4d-114.4285326

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemehuevi_Indian_Tribe_of_the_Chemehuevi_Reservation
"The reservation is 30,653 acres (12,405 ha) large and has a population of 345".

"fallow field" is kind of a misnomer in that region, as they only really farm because of river irrigation. However, of interest, I see that CRIT, Mohave and Yuma reservations have huge amounts of irrigated land, but Chemehuevi has essentially "none". I'd put my money there. I think I'll go visit them this winter. 

So, maybe another year regards RTR.

 

[highdesertranger]

thanks Qxxxx.

we always used Fallow as a uncultivated field as part of crop rotation, and has nothing to do with irrigation. from wiki, my dad, my grandfather, uncle, and all the farmers I grew up around


Look up fallow in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Fallow is the stage of crop rotation in which the land is deliberately not used to raise a crop.

highdesertranger

 

[Qxxx]

This is getting a little offtrack with slicing and dicing definitions. The relevant point is that the land along the Colorado river in AZ has been dry Mohave desert for probably 20,000 years since the last ice age. The only reason they farm crops on the barren desert is because of irrigation from the river. Otherwise, they'd just be growing cactus and creosote bushes.

Nobody is gonna let the RTR use some land that's been irrigated and/or used for crops. They "might" allow RTR on some of the barren desert land that has "not" been irrigated. That's the pertinent point. Maybe. It's a possibility. And possibly CRIT is already fully subscribed for indian villages and leased farmland, but maybe not so on the other reservations.

 

[Suanne]

If anyone here has access to any of the Tribal Councils in the desert southwest who may have land for the RTRs for this year or next, please Private Message me. I would love for you to make introductions. Thanks, Suanne

 

[Qxxx]

An RTR in the PNW would not replace the RTR in the SW, since it's summer versus winter. Suanne has indicated there might be several RTRs. Also, they have been talking about 10,000 people attending the current RTR, but this would likely go down quite a lot if there were several events around the country.

I am pretty sure that most people who come to the RTR are not full-time nomads who are on the road and traveling around the country full time. It's not really a "tribe" of wanderers, although some noobees seem to think that's what it is. I think most people just show up and know very few of the others. So when talking about this with the Nez Perce, I should imagine a lot fewer people to be considered.

EDIT: It would also be cool if the local indians had some presence at the RTRs. Erect teepees and show some authentic cultural traditions. Would be great. The RTRs tend to congregate a bit into specific factions, so be cool to have a small indian village in the midst. I'd like to learn to throw a tomahawk too, .

 

[highdesertranger]

well 3 years ago there where several Native Americans at my camp at the RTR. but they were there to talk prospecting. they also made it quite clear how they felt about white eyes going on the reservation unless invited. so I think it's safe to say is thy have a more then little animosity towards us. they were from CRIT which controls most of the land between Ehrenberg and Parker along the river.

highdesertranger

 

[Qxxx]

Buckle, I had another idea. If the Nez Perce hold yearly powpows or rendevous, it might also be possible to schedule an RTR in the same area, and before or after the powpow. I think it'd be a win-win for everybody.

 

[owl]

I have spent many nights and days boondocking on reservations in the southwest, never with a group. I have experienced hostility because I look white and welcoming because I look white. Summer before last I went to the Crow, Cheyenne Pow Wow on the Crow Agency in Montana. I was treated to some of the finest days of my life. I camped with a Crow family with children on one side and a Cheyenne family with children on the other. There is no way to predict what an average experience on or near a reservation will be. I was accepted because I know horses and caught, fashioned a halter from a rope and rode a runaway pony back to a camp. In my judgement a group such as this, with the numbers talked about would never be welcomed on a res.

 

[VanDwellerMod]

Please stay on topic. Thank you.

 

[VanDwellerMod]

... so I think it's safe to say is thy have a more then little animosity towards us.  they were from CRIT which controls most of the land between Ehrenberg and Parker along the river ...

I wonder how representative these few people were of their tribal nation.  

I tend to "knock" once or twice, and if the door isn't opened then I respect those boundaries.

That is what I did when I didn't get a response from my call to the CRIT about holding an RTR on their land.  That is, until a Native American with experience working with tribal councils made herself available to pursue further.  That she hasn't received a response from them either, may be indicative.

Time will tell.

 

[travelaround]

From my experience living in a small town dominated by a tribe, I will say there are some with animosity and a lot of tribal members who are friendly. It would be good to attend the tribal council meetings to talk to them in person, if possible, and then there will be an answer.

 

[highdesertranger]

I don't know how representative they were. but their talk made me back out of going on the reservation and use my gear to help them prospect an area even though they gave me assurances that everybody would be safe just as long as we where with them. they were in my camp several times that year. I think I have their contact info somewhere. highdesertranger

 

[Suanne]

I may take you up on getting their contact information. Especially if we get a chance to go before their Tribal Council. Thanks.

 

[Qxxx]

All this second guessing and personal experience isn't very helpful. It seems simple enough. Contact the tribes and see how they feel. It's their decision one way or another. If they're amenable, then good. If not, then we know.

 

[ZoNiE]

Has anyone considered Red Lake (Dry)?

35.561613,-113.952942
http://desertilluminations.com/Landscapes/Arizona-Obscura/IMG2125/823793790_mc2zS-L.jpg
We've had a few rocket launches out there.
It's dry, but if it rains, it can be under an inch or two of water...