Does your life revolve around saving money?

[font=Merriweather, Georgia, serif]As of November 15th, 2017 you can drive to the shore of the Arctic Ocean in Canada on the Dempster highway. [/font]
[font=Merriweather, Georgia, serif]The Dempster is 546 miles long, while the Dalton Highway in Alaska is 414 miles long. 
I can see it now, extreme frugalistas taking the Dalton over the Dempster because it’s 132 miles less miles of driving on cheaper Alaskan fuel prices because their lives revolve around saving money. Hypothetically, When you tell the frugalista that they traveled 361 extra miles to get to the start of the Dalton Compared to the start of the Dempster from Watson Lake, Yukon Territory; they will buzz about the cheaper food, fuel, Bug spray & parchment paper in Alaska basically paid for the extra driving to get to the start of the Dalton, and any cost overruns are covered because they aren’t driving 132 miles more to see the Arctic Ocean. 
You will scratch your head and shrug as you envision them sharing their trip savings stories back home, to where they talk of their Alaskan $avings as if they were the highlights of their once-in-a-life-time road trip. 
A savings story sounds like this: “As we got ready to depart Fairbanks for the Arctic Ocean, we found the cheapest gas in town with GasBuddy, and we filled all our tanks, 8 in total. We calculated that we saved $19.62 on fuel, including the driving to get it. We drove slow to save our tires from blowing out on the shale gravel road, and to win MPG. Due to our master driving we didn’t flatten a tire which saved us a fortune. We took our RV instead of our toad as it was only 2 mpg higher so that didn’t cost us much extra. We didnt see the Arctic Ocean as we didn’t know road access to the Arctic Ocean coast was restricted compared to the Dempster, we deliberated what to do for a day and decided to begrudgingly pay $79.99 a person for the tour, as we drove all the way and we weren’t going back to the Arctic ever again  so that wiped out our savings by not driving up the Dempster in Canada. We drove so efficiently that we had a full gas CAN when we rolled into Fairbanks and no windshield damage. Overall we got our money’s worth on our Dalton Highway Alaska road trip but if we could do it all over again we would have just taken the Dempster for a net lower mileage and saved a few bucks”. 
Do your stories read like the one above? If so, your life may very well revolve around saving money.[/font]

Some really do need to watch every penny.

Even for those chasing simplicity for the fun of it, I get little pleasure out of criticising how others find theirs.

To each their own.

In many aspects of my life it is about not wasting what I have. Out here that doesn't just mean money, it includes water, propane, food, energy, waste tank capacity. In other words the less you waste on this, the more you get of that.

debit.servus said:

[font=Merriweather, Georgia, serif]As of November 15th, 2017 you can drive to the shore of the Arctic Ocean in Canada on the Dempster highway. [/font]
[font=Merriweather, Georgia, serif]The Dempster is 546 miles long, while the Dalton Highway in Alaska is 414 miles long. 
I can see it now, extreme frugalistas taking the Dalton over the Dempster...When you tell the frugalista that they traveled 361 extra miles to get to the start of the Dalton Compared to the start of the Dempste...they will buzz about the cheaper food, fuel, Bug spray & parchment paper in Alaska basically paid for the extra driving...You will scratch your head and shrug...they talk of their Alaskan $avings as if they were the highlights of their once-in-a-life-time road trip. 
A savings story sounds like this: “As we got ready to depart Fairbanks for the Arctic Ocean, we found the cheapest gas in town with GasBuddy, and we filled all our tanks, 8 in total. We calculated that we saved $19.62 on fuel, including the driving to get it. We drove slow to save our tires from blowing out on the shale gravel road, and to win MPG. Due to our master driving[/font]

Click to expand...

Have you actually encountered anyone who thinks like this or talks like this?

A lot of your thread subjects seem to be centered around the concept of obsessive penny pinching destroying quality of life. If this is some pervasive trend, I haven't encountered it.

Sure, extremely frugal people exist. But they're probably not taking road trips to Alaska.

Live the life you want to. Take whatever highway you want to. Ultimately quality of life matters more than money. Of course, if you're broke and run out of gas on the side of the highway, that may negatively impact your quality of life. But you don't need to justify your choices to anyone, and to me, threads like these seem to imply need for justification in an argument that doesn't exist.

I'm just sick of people telling me how to live, and that includes how I should focus my finite energy on the saving side of the wealth equation which for me is capped by a $660 SSDI check and whatever one-off job  and profits I earn driving packages for Rapidus*. I'm pretty busy too doing my best to get the most time in the trucking schools yard.

I wrote the savings story highly exaggerated as it's the way I know how to best bring the point across, as I said in a previous thread:
"I see a select sub-set of the mobile dwellers like that, like fewer than 1%. I also see a far higher percentage of mobile dwellers (like over 50%) living modest lives with their rigs, not sacrificing, suffering, or scrimping and work to insure they don't fall to a point where they're forced to. "
I haven't come across somebody who's travel story is a travel savings story, the highlights being where they  saved, where they wiped out savings, and their masterclass frugality skills - because these people don't exist in sizable numbers.

Last month I returned from a trip with my parents bucket list trip which had us experiencing what the east coast of Oz had to offer, 3 weeks on the East coast of Austrailia and 2 weeks on the North and South Islands of New Zealand. The grand total of the trip is over $24,000 US for all accomidations, car rentals, tours, flights, fuel, food etc. From my own funds I spent nearly a grand, and I was OK with returning home penniless as I can make the money back when I return as money is a renewable resource. My travel story consists of the memories of what I did, not what I saved. I can share my trip story on CRVL if people want it.

I rely on frugality too, effective frugality with both time and money. I could easily fall into the lifestyle inflation trap as I drive truck, which would slow or stall progress to the big goals of getting into the cargo trailer conversion, getting a modest life on the road, and getting some money to work for me. I'm not going to get into the rig, a modest RV life and money working for me practicing minutua frugality (minutia frugality = think-small money-saving tactics that don't move the needle in any meaningful way. Simplifying is more powerful than optimizing/maximizing: http://affordanything.com/2016/01/2...-heres-why-simplifying-is-the-smarter-choice/)

As is obvious, my life -does not- revolve around saving money. It's your life, if your life revolves around saving money I have no judgement on that. 

I'm still in the trucking school, practicing the Air Brakes and In-Cab, and re-starting the walkaround (aka Pre-Trip) inspection soon. Every day I'm hustling.

*Rapidus is a great gig for those in the SF Bay & Sacramento Area BTW, averaging hourly profit of more than min. wage when driving a small car. The big downside is there aren't enough orders to make it a part-time or full-time job.

My wife and I have been known to look for the best deals we can when planning a major purchase, vacation, and day to day shopping. Controlling (being conscience of) spending is a good discipline to practice regardless of how much money you earn/have. Of course there have been occasions when we've wasted time and it wasn't worth the effort. But over all, our quality of life and financial security have increased over time.

I don’t pinch pennies, in fact I will spend more to get a better long term value. I have found that it’s worth paying for the really fun stuff too. Silly to travel all the way to dead horse and not pay for the tour, for instance. I’ll never forget that trip nor boondocking north of the arctic circle.

But my life does revolve around saving money right now— the sooner my passive income exceeds my expenses the sooner I am retired.

Add to my original post: 

To the clear the fictional RVers who told that story chose the Dalton over the Dempster after long hours of cost projections which didn't factor in any Arctic Ocean tour because they assumed they could drive to the shore of the Arctic Ocean taking either Dalton or Dempster. 

They calculated the cost of both routes including the extra travel expenses to get to the start of the Dalton, compared the prices of gas, groceries & minutia like greywater disposal costs & parchment paper; vs equivalent cost of staying in Canada (They weren't going to do anything else in Alaska because of cost, not because of time limitations or disinterest). They factored in the cost of tire blowouts, 2 on the Dalton and 3 on the Dempster (due to the longer distance of the Dempster). They then took the numbers in the Dalton & Dempster side of their Spreadsheet and calculated the spread of prices, currency exchange rate & currency conversion fees (the fictional RVers are US natives, originating their trip from the Midwest of the US) to get to their final numbers. Because of the extra tire blowout they factored in on the Dempster vs Dalton price war, the Dalton won the cost prediction being $146.59 cheaper than the Dempster cost prediction. 

The fictional RVers were confident in their choice to the point where they didn't feel the need to spend 5 to 15 minutes to check the internet to see if there were any flaws to their plan (the inability to drive to the Arctic Ocean as a private citizen in Alaska, necessitating the need to go on the sanctioned tour for $79.99 per person), so they find out their flaw the hard, spirit/pride crushing & savings wipeout way being told "Access to the Arctic Ocean is restricted to authorized personnel... ...There is a tour available which departs daily... ...for 79.99 a person" by the British Petroleum checkpoint agent where Deadhorse ends and Prudhoe Bay begins. 

Up to that point on their trip, their cost prediction was more than what they actually spent, even so they felt the Need to deliberate for 10 hours "to pay $160 plus tax to see the Arctic Ocean"; and now unable to appreciate the natural beauty and the Man-made engineering marvels surrounding them due to the Cost Shock. 

The next day, after weighing the fact that they will never give themselves another chance to see the Arctic Ocean, the fictional RVers decide to head down to the tour office and begrudgingly pay $80 a person plus tax to get on that days tour to see the Arctic Ocean, wiping out their perceived savings at that point. 

They end up blowing the 2 tires on the Alaska highway on their return drive back to the Midwest which blows away any "they didn't blow 2 tires on their trip so even with the cost of the Arctic Ocean tour it's cheaper!" comments. 

Do I believe people like this exist? I believe the number of people who's lives revolve around saving money is less than 1000 in the US and Canada with no more than 1 million people in the rest of the world. 99% of them simply will not travel because of cost, so no RV trip savings stories from them. The 1% of those who do travel I will split in two groups: .88% will travel the most frugal/cheap way possible which isn't RV and the other .12% will have some to all of their travel be in a vehicle they can at least sleep in, from beater car to large RV (their main motivation being cost of course). Of those .12% I don't see very many taking the road to the far north of North America because it's cheaper to travel less distance. Let's just say if I come across someone who reports to travel within 1000 miles (1609 km) of the shore of the Arctic Ocean in the Point .12% out of the 1,000,000 people I believe exist in the world, I'll ask for an interview and permission to share it to the internet. 

Since we are nearing 8 billion people in the world the Overwhelming Majority want modest, comfortable lives with enough money to not have to think about money everyday.

Welcoming responses.

Saving money and living ultra-frugally is important to a lot of people who don't have marketable skills or family/friends to bail them out and need to keep most of their savings in reserve so a car accident, hospitalization or breakdown doesn't leave them in a tent under a bridge somewhere.

Living frugally is also important to some people who hate greed and the entire consumerist mentality that is fucking up our society and our planet. Cutting spending and consumption is a form of protest. "The love of money is the root of all evil." This is a life creed for many of us. We simply do not get satisfaction from spending money, even if it is a gift. We'd rather sleep in a van on a Baja beach than stay in a fully paid-for 5 star resort in Cabo San Lucas.

Some people also have very numerical minds. Numbers are what they enjoy more than experiences. Paying $2.09 for gas when everyone else is paying $2.29 across town makes them buzz as much as drinking a six pack of beer, or seeing the sun set over the Grand Canyon. Whatever floats their boat.

Also, some of us learn that we enjoy just existing, living in the moment and enjoying the simple pleasures of life, more than living on the edge. Side benefit: it's cheaper.

Endless boasting about pinching pennies (or how amazing their Burning Man experience was, or the awesomeness of their van setup) is narcissism, a craving for validation and adulation. Nothing more.

I see you are working toward your CDL. Decent money there and a great way to save tens of thousands in a year, but if you are a rebel at heart you will chafe at the endless restrictions and rules you will need to follow. If you go specialty hauling (like flatbed), you will make much better money than dry-van no-touch freight, but there will be more demanded of you.

I haven't used my CDL in over a year; I'd rather work an 8 dollar an hour job where there is outstanding scenery, no stress and low expectations, and I'm only on the clock for 40 hours a week, not 168. Of course I'm only saving 800 a month, not 4000, but again, whatever floats your boat.

I think a lot of us find traveling and saving money are opposites. I found a cheap set-up and modest job, and I'm hanging around it longer than I'd like, because if I hit the road I'd quickly go broke. To me, traveling is still a luxury I hope to enjoy in the future. I've only very rarely been able to get away at all in my life. I'm pretty sure I'll have to wait until my retirement years, if not well into them, to even consider traveling.

quote='USExplorer' pid='375013' dateline='1520456230']
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Living frugally is also important to some people who hate greed and the entire consumerist mentality that is fucking up our society and our planet. Cutting spending and consumption is a form of protest. "The love of money is the root of all evil." This is a life creed for many of us. We simply do not get satisfaction from spending money, even if it is a gift.

I love Money as it buys the freedom to live my dream life, not because it’s a mechanism to get bottle service at the club. Money buys the freedom to have bottle service at the club, Money buys the freedom to watch your kids grow up, Money buy the freedom to return to Alaska or another place, Money buys the freedom to [insert thing, desire, dream, etc.].

The moral of a story is, If you treat ____ as scarce, you'll focus on ways to conserve ____ and find ways to conserve more ____. If you treat ____ as abundant, you'll find ways to get more.



We'd rather sleep in a van on a Baja beach than stay in a fully paid-for 5 star resort in Cabo San Lucas.

Fully paid-for by who? If you from your laboring energies, then it’s a matter of how much you value it [staying at 5-Star resorts]. I’m betting if someone approached you on the Baja beach, with a voucher valid for 2 free nights at a 5-star resort in Cabo San Lucas - you’d take it.
You would then run the frugal math in your head. First you’d see if the voucher is transferrable or not and if it is you’d find a way to turn it into cash. If it’s not you would probably use it to stay at the 5 Star resort in Cabo San Lucas...

Some people also have very numerical minds. Numbers are what they enjoy more than experiences. Paying $2.09 for gas when everyone else is paying $2.29 across town makes them buzz as much as drinking a six pack of beer, or seeing the sun set over the Grand Canyon. Whatever floats their boat.

I was frugally numerical like that too, buzzing off transactions with maximized savings/gains - before I realized theres a whole world out there which can be savored on a modest salary.
For the numerically frugal minded, it’s a form of entertainment.

Also, some of us learn that we enjoy just existing, living in the moment and enjoying the simple pleasures of life, more than living on the edge. Side benefit: it's cheaper.

I enjoy simple pleasures as well, and making a life that is conducive to simple pleasures as well as the complex ones. Like my rig plan involves picture skylights over the head end of the master bed, to watch the stars. I want a balanced life with a proportionate of simple pleasures, cheap pleasures, pricey pleasures.

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Dingfelder said:

I think a lot of us find traveling and saving money are opposites. I found a cheap set-up and modest job, and I'm hanging around it longer than I'd like, because if I hit the road I'd quickly go broke. To me, traveling is still a luxury I hope to enjoy in the future. I've only very rarely been able to get away at all in my life. I'm pretty sure I'll have to wait until my retirement years, if not well into them, to even consider traveling.

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Another example is the person who first looks up the USD currency exchange rate of every country in the world, selects the bottom 40 countries (including the well known shithole countries), looks at the state department website (because ”a virus or getting stranded due to impending unrest will wipe out savings and cost a fortune ontop”), checks airfare prices for the absolute cheapest roundtrip, even passing up better airlines to save a few bucks. Extensive internet research ensues with at least 5 travel review sites, 3 ”consumer price indices”, and 10 travel blogs. Fictional Uber-frugalite takes the information gleaned and formulates at least 5 different itineraries searching for the absolute cheapest vacation possible, even calling the local shops for grocery prices and comparing activity and tour prices in bordering countries. Fictional uber-frugalite narrows down itenaries, with no regard to whether Fictional likes it or not because ”I should be eternally grateful to go on a vacation AT ALL!”.

1000 hours later, Fictional hammered down the financially low-cost maximized trip itinerary booked many months out and taking place in the offseason. Fictional is taking a 1.5 week trip spanning 5 countries in eastern europe, three in the Shengen zone. He basks in the savings as a trip of similar legnth, duration and activities costs $3000 and Fictionals pre-booked everything for less than $900 and has a $330.50 all inclusive, on the ground budget based on the price checking and allowances he’s given himself (Fictional even planned what foods they going to try where they’re cheapest based on price checking - for example One soup dumpling in Poland because it’s 20 cents more in the other 4 countries).

Another 100 hours checking and rechecking the included baggage limits on the 3-stop flight, to find the lightest & smallest packing configuration, practice functioning on little to no sleep (“the bus is a 2-in-one deal! It’s cheaper than a hostel, and it’ll get me to my next destination at the same time!”) and relatively light internet research of what’s included / not included in everything pre-booked to squeeze the lemons Dry (Fictional is looking forward to the one included meal in the one full day tour, it’s possible to do the places on their own but it will cost $1 more to DIY than the tour.

Countdown to Departure day, and Fictional is not only packing for max savings, but timing chores & maximizing savings around the house. Insurances is downgraded or suspended (“why should I pay a penny more for insurance when I’m away??”), chores are postponed or done early (because of cost, nothing else) and 1 full day before departure day the hot water and electricity is shut off (Fictional knows trusted people that will gladly housesit for $0.00 but would rather handle everything them-self and pay $0.00 on utilities (Fictional Uber-Frugalite is also a selective cheapskate).

Fictional has planned out the trip to the airport, which is 100 km away. Fictional checks two different websites, The regional transit site and Google Maps. Fictional asks a friend how much asking price the gas to drive him to the airport and compares it to transit fare, his friend asks $15 and transit fare is $14.17. Wanting to maximize the savings on this vacation, transit is taken to save 83 cents.

This concludes chapter 1.

Welcoming Responses.

Monomania is the only one comes to mind.

Well I shared the Alaska savings story of the Fictional RVers to a friend and he said it was not entertaining or funny.