Which would be the better battery option

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I need a 12V system with at least 400AH, I am looking into either two 6V Fullriver DC400-6 L16 group 415 AH in series, or two 12V Fullriver DC210-12 4D group 210AH in parallel. Thoughts?
 
If I needed that much power, I'd go with the Crown 4-6v setup (440ah) - $980 including cables.

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1898...own-agm-440-ah-12-vdc-5-280-wh-4-battery-bank

I base this almost entirely on reviews online and from HandyBob's blog (if you haven't read it, highly recommended)

https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

PS: I am not familiar with Fullriver batteries, so I would defer to others who know both. Crown is made in USA, which I would prefer (I am currently using a VMAX Tanks 12 volt Group 31, which is working great).
 
The 6V batteries are preferred, 

I have 4 of the DC~224~6 I found reconditioned for $230 for all 4.  That deal is hard to find.
 
GotSmart said:
The 6V batteries are preferred, 

I have 4 of the DC~224~6 I found reconditioned for $230 for all 4.  That deal is hard to find.

What are you running off them? Im guessing you have them in a parallel/series to give you 12V and 448AH?
 
TheBeardedWanderer88 said:
What are you running off them? Im guessing you have them in a parallel/series to give you 12V and 448AH?

I just have 200 W Renogy Mono panels.  When in use I run my CPAP, laptop, phone, lights, and cooking.   There is enough power to also run a fridge/freezer.

The batteries are now 5 years old. No sign of any deteriation.
 

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6v batteries in AGM format, likely do not share the same significant advantage over their AGM 12v counterparts as they so obviously do when comparing 12v flooded marine batteries to flooded 6v golf cart batteries.

The plates of 6v flooded GC batteries are usually at least 2x as thick as flooded 12v, but might not be any thicker in AGM 6v vs 12v. Sadly this plate thickness seems to be some guarded secret as it would be nice to know for sure on any given battery.

IF one wants AGM, then 4 100AH 12v group 31 batteries wired in parallel Balanced, should give the same amount of total cycles as 400 AH of 6v batteries in series parallel.

400AH of 12v AGM batteries wired properly in parallel 'should' be able to maintin higher voltages during high inverter loads, compared to 400AH of 6v AGM batteries in series parallel.

400AH of 12v AGM might also be able to recharge slightly faster than an Equal capacity of 6v AGM, IF one has HUGE plug in charging sources at their disposal, Like 120 amps or more. but the time saved would not be extreme.

So Consider that and the weight of moving individual batteries, especially the 4 and 8d sizes.

While not really a likely occurrence, if a 6v battery shorts a cell, then one needs to remove 2 of the 4 batteries.

If one 12v battery shorts a cell, only one battery need be removed from the parallel string.

But it might not be obvious 1 of 4 parallel 12v batteries shorted a cell. One might not catch it unless they suddenly notice lower overnight voltages and know something is not right, and investigate. AGMS tend to not short cells nearly as often as their flooded counterparts, but it is not unheard of.

My personal Wish List Deep cycle AGM battery is the 12v Lifeline GPL-30HT at 150AH, with their group 31 GPL-31XT at 125AH a close second.

If the AGM were to be a dual purpose, like engine starting and house loads, I would get a group 31 Odyssey or Northstar AGM, even though they only have 100AH capacity compared to the 125AH of the Lifeline gpl-31XT.

The Lifeline will outcycle Northstar or Odyssey AGM given equal good treatment. BAd treatment, the best battery will not last much longer than the worst.

Odyssey and Northstar are TPPL AGMS. Thin plate pure lead. They have Extremely high CCA figures Which can crank engines faster in all temperatures, or maintain higher voltages during high inverter loads, perhaps keeping the inverter's low voltage alarm quiet when microwaving that baked potato.

Lifeline Odyssey and Northstar all can accept HUGE recharging amperages, just limit voltage to 14.4 or 14.7, and are better off for receiving at least 20 amps per 100AH capacity for lifeline and at least 40 amps per 100Ah capcity Odyssey.

All other AGMS basically say to limit amperage to no more than 30%, or 30 amps per 100AH of capacity.

All Agms when deeply cycled to the 50% range appreciate currents approaching these maximums, as long as they are not 90F when starting the higher amp recharge.

FullRiver are a good AGM, likely the best AGM coming out of China.

Good to hear reports of the Vmaxtanks still going strong, but this can easily be a testament to proper recharging and shallow discharges, rather than battery quality. Reports on performance or longevity are almost meaningless unless it is known how the battery is/was treated, and that is about how deeply discharged it gets and how promptly and fully it was then recharged.

AGMS are a bit more finicky in regards to how often theuy require the true full recharge, compared to flooded batteries. Both are not happy undercharged, but the AGMS are less so. Their greater price and other advantages, does not make them more resilient in this regard.

So the end user should consider the need to be able to occassionally recharge their deeply cycled AGMS at a higher amperage rate, from their most depleted state, and hold absorption voltage until amps taper to 0.5% of capacity. A low and slow solar only recharged battery cycled deeply daily, without ever being recharged occassionally at a higher rate, is not really a happy AGM battery.

How many cycles one can go before the true 100% recharge should really be sought? Well I try to not go more than 5 cycles to 50%. I have gone 20, but it took something like 14 hours for amps to taper to 0.5% when held @14.7v at an initial 46% charge rate.

I've now got about 500 deep cycles in 39 months on my group 27 Northstar AGM at 90AH capacity. I expect about 800 total deep cycles, with a few hundred more cumulative shallow cycles,1 to 15%, before its performance makes me decide it is time to replace. But ultimately, time will tell. So far it is behaving better than Expected, but I also recharge it properly, often, but I also deplete it well below 50% often too.

Once/IF more positive reports come out, my wishlist AGM battery is the Firefly Oasis, as these are 'supposed' to be able to be returned to full capacity after many partial state of charge cycles which would damage other AGMS. They are 480$ for a 115Ah group 31. That is the only size.
 
SternWake said:
6v batteries in AGM format, likely do not share the same significant advantage over their AGM 12v counterparts as they so obviously do when comparing 12v flooded marine batteries to flooded 6v golf cart batteries.

The plates of 6v flooded GC batteries are usually at least 2x as thick as flooded 12v, but might not be any thicker in AGM 6v vs 12v. Sadly this plate thickness seems to be some guarded secret as it would be nice to know for sure on any given battery.

IF one wants AGM, then 4 100AH 12v group 31 batteries wired in parallel Balanced, should give the same amount of total cycles as 400 AH of 6v batteries in series parallel.

400AH of 12v AGM batteries wired properly in parallel 'should' be able to maintin higher voltages during high inverter loads, compared to 400AH of 6v AGM batteries in series parallel.

400AH of 12v AGM might also be able to recharge slightly faster than an Equal capacity of 6v AGM, IF one has HUGE plug in charging sources at their disposal, Like 120 amps or more. but the time saved would not be extreme.

So Consider that and the weight of moving individual batteries, especially the 4 and 8d sizes.

While not really a likely occurrence, if a 6v battery shorts a cell, then one needs to remove 2 of the 4 batteries.

If one 12v battery shorts a cell, only one battery need be removed from the parallel string.

But it might not be obvious 1 of 4 parallel 12v batteries shorted a cell. One might not catch it unless they suddenly notice lower overnight voltages and know something is not right, and investigate. AGMS tend to not short cells nearly as often as their flooded counterparts, but it is not unheard of.

My personal Wish List Deep cycle AGM battery is the 12v Lifeline GPL-30HT at 150AH, with their group 31 GPL-31XT at 125AH a close second.

If the AGM were to be a dual purpose, like engine starting and house loads, I would get a group 31 Odyssey or Northstar AGM, even though they only have 100AH capacity compared to the 125AH of the Lifeline gpl-31XT.

The Lifeline will outcycle Northstar or Odyssey AGM given equal good treatment. BAd treatment, the best battery will not last much longer than the worst.

Odyssey and Northstar are TPPL AGMS. Thin plate pure lead. They have Extremely high CCA figures Which can crank engines faster in all temperatures, or maintain higher voltages during high inverter loads, perhaps keeping the inverter's low voltage alarm quiet when microwaving that baked potato.

Lifeline Odyssey and Northstar all can accept HUGE recharging amperages, just limit voltage to 14.4 or 14.7, and are better off for receiving at least 20 amps per 100AH capacity for lifeline and at least 40 amps per 100Ah capcity Odyssey.

All other AGMS basically say to limit amperage to no more than 30%, or 30 amps per 100AH of capacity.

All Agms when deeply cycled to the 50% range appreciate currents approaching these maximums, as long as they are not 90F when starting the higher amp recharge.

FullRiver are a good AGM, likely the best AGM coming out of China.

Good to hear reports of the Vmaxtanks still going strong, but this can easily be a testament to proper recharging and shallow discharges, rather than battery quality. Reports on performance or longevity are almost meaningless unless it is known how the battery is/was treated, and that is about how deeply discharged it gets and how promptly and fully it was then recharged.

AGMS are a bit more finicky in regards to how often theuy require the true full recharge, compared to flooded batteries. Both are not happy undercharged, but the AGMS are less so. Their greater price and other advantages, does not make them more resilient in this regard.

So the end user should consider the need to be able to occassionally recharge their deeply cycled AGMS at a higher amperage rate, from their most depleted state, and hold absorption voltage until amps taper to 0.5% of capacity. A low and slow solar only recharged battery cycled deeply daily, without ever being recharged occassionally at a higher rate, is not really a happy AGM battery.

How many cycles one can go before the true 100% recharge should really be sought? Well I try to not go more than 5 cycles to 50%. I have gone 20, but it took something like 14 hours for amps to taper to 0.5% when held @14.7v at an initial 46% charge rate.

I've now got about 500 deep cycles in 39 months on my group 27 Northstar AGM at 90AH capacity. I expect about 800 total deep cycles, with a few hundred more cumulative shallow cycles,1 to 15%, before its performance makes me decide it is time to replace. But ultimately, time will tell. So far it is behaving better than Expected, but I also recharge it properly, often, but I also deplete it well below 50% often too.

Once/IF more positive reports come out, my wishlist AGM battery is the Firefly Oasis, as these are 'supposed' to be able to be returned to full capacity after many partial state of charge cycles which would damage other AGMS. They are 480$ for a 115Ah group 31. That is the only size.

Thanks for that, thats the spot on info I was looking for!
 
I just bought 4 new Full River 6 volt AGMs to replace the Crown and Trojan golf cart batteries in my old van. I bought them from Discount Solar here in Quartzsite. I talked a lot to the owner of the shop, Craig, and he is a big fan of the Full River. He said they have split them open and seen them inside and the 12 volt are every bit as good a deep cycle battery as the 6 volt. They figured out the prices and essentially in their shop it's a wash on price. I paid $259 for each 6 volt AGM golf carts, I bought 4. The only reason I bought 6 volt was because they fit the spot I had for them a little better.

If you're wondering, my last pair of Full Rivers were still going strong after 5 years but I didn't want to mix ages and so they went with the cargo trailer when I sold it. After 5 years I had got my monies worth out of them.
 
Good to know on Fullriver, but I would stick to Odyssey, Lifeline and Northstar (in tgat order) unless FR was at least 30% cheaper per AH.

But I would ONLY spend those big bucks if I was getting to 100% lots more knew I was getting thousands of cycles, by taking care of them immaculately.

For this sort of PSOC usage
SternWake said:
How many cycles one can go before the true 100% recharge should really be sought? Well I try to not go more than 5 cycles to 50%. I have gone 20, but it took something like 14 hours for amps to taper to 0.5% when held @14.7v at an initial 46% charge rate.

I've now got about 500 deep cycles

I would stick to Sam's Club GC2s, or go up to Firefly, they've proven themselves for that use case well enough by now, for me personally.
 
Always keep in mind the size and weight of those batteries. Eventually you will need to lift and move them. More batteries of a smaller size might be better logistically.
 
But much less effective electrically.

Most places in the US it isn't expensive to hire a couple strong young backs for a couple hours' work.

Or buy replacements from a local guy that includes labor.
 

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