Continuous Duty Solenoid

Somers · Jun 4, 2020

I have installed a continuous duty solenoid on my 2017 GMC Savana in the same fashion that Bob and friends had done in their video to 100ah AGM BAttery.
One main difference I believe is that I have A Renogy 2 100 watt solar with Wanderer charge controller solar system hooked to battery and that is supplying a Blue Seas Fuse panel. The System was not grounded to the van, but was floating.

I then grounded the solenoid to the chassis, and the AGM battery to the chassis. When I hooked up the AGM there was a large Arc and when I hooked up the negative to the starting battery, there was even a larger arc. This actually blew out both 150 amp ANL fuses. I have looked over my system and at this point cannot understand how this would have happened. I have new fuses on order but have not solve the problem? Anybody have any ideas on this? Yes I am new to this electrical game.
Jim

B and C · Jun 4, 2020

It sounds like you have a positive and negative wire in the wrong place somewhere. Your solar system doesn't not affect the continuous duty solenoid system.

Your engine battery is already grounded (-) to the frame and engine. Your house battery will also need to be grounded to the frame (the - negative post) so it can get a charge from the alternator/engine battery. Do not ground to thin sheet metal. Your positive (+) cable from the house battery connects to one of the large lugs on the solenoid. The engine battery positive (+) connects to the other large lug on the solenoid. The two small lugs are for triggering the solenoid. One should be a switched positive and the other a ground.

B and C · Jun 4, 2020

Here is a diagram for you:

Weight · Jun 4, 2020

Some early Renogy charge controllers had a "positive ground". They must be mounted so the case is insulated from the negative.

user 423 · Jun 4, 2020

Weight said:
Some early Renogy charge controllers had a "positive ground". They must be mounted so the case is insulated from the negative.

Would that mean he now has a fried controller?

Somers · Jun 4, 2020

I grounded the house battery to the metal floor of the van. Should I take that negative ground to the frame beneath?
Could that cause the problem.
My charge controller is only a year old. I have it mounted into wood.
P.S I tried to upload pictures but seem to be having a problem. I’m using a iPad.
Jim

highdesertranger · Jun 4, 2020

I agree you have a positive grounded somewhere. look up the specs for the Wanderer and see if it's positive ground. on the bright side thank god you had it fused. highdesertranger

B and C · Jun 4, 2020

The floor of the van (sheet metal) is not a good conductor and it also relies on the ground strap between the body and the frame for the negative path. There should be a rubber plug in your floor to put the ground cable through to the frame. The sheet metal ground is probably why the sparks were smaller on that end. The frame is a big and heavy conductor. Most everyone uses the frame for ground. Not as easy as the light weight sheet metal though.

Just be sure it is wired according to the diagram I posted above.

Somers · Jun 8, 2020

The Wanderer does not have the pos ground
I have gone over the way I have a hooked up my system and it is identical to the above diagram. It is just the way it was in the video continuous duty solenoid by Bob Wells.
Could a positive ground somewhere in my loop to my Blue Seas fuse panel cause such a large surge?

Could a loos connection on One of the 150 amp fuses cause a major ground short? Maybe I didn’t crank down hard enough on the terminals.
I was thinking about disconnecting my panel from my house battery in other words all the load and wiring that could be a problem. Then it would just be the 4AWG wire, solenoid, that is causing it.
And is there way to trace this with a multi major. I have two brand new 150 amp fuses but I’m afraid to put them in and hook it up again since it already blew them.
It’s a three week waiting period to get in any of the RV places to have them look at it.

B and C · Jun 8, 2020

A multimeter is the testing tool.

Since your two main fuses are blown, I would disconnect a solar panel lead so there is no electricity coming from anywhere. First set your meter to volts and check both sides of the blown fuses. There should only be voltage on the battery side. If there is voltage on the cable side, there is a short to the starting battery positive somewhere (or your solar panel input cable).

If no voltages are found, set your meter to ohms and check the cable side of each blown fuse to ground. These should read open.

If these test pass, connect your panel lead and check for voltage on the cable side of the fuses.

Something is rotten in Denmark.

FYI, I am the guy that did most of the talking (besides Bob) on installing the solenoid in Deborah's van in that video. Did you like my use of the cans in place of the batteries for the demonstration on the table of how it pieced together? I couldn't think of a better way for it to be a visual presentation of how it all connected together.

Somers · Jun 8, 2020

Batteries, was I supposed to use batteries. I used cans!

highdesertranger · Jun 8, 2020

in a trouble shooting situation I wire a automatic reset circuit breaker in place of the fuse. that way it saves fuses while trouble shooting. I have one made up with short wire leads with alligator clips.

so disconnect all loads and potential loads.
install circuit breaker
start hooking the loads back up one at a time to see which one is the culprit

highdesertranger

Somers · Jun 9, 2020

Brian
1. When you say solar panel Lead, that would be the cable going tp positive house battery terminals.
2. I took out burnt out fuses. Just got my 150 amp fuses in mail. I should leave them out at this point correct?
If I do not put a fuse in the fuse holder between the starting battery and solenoid the power should stop right at the fuse holder correct.
Also I am not connected to house battery at this time.
What I am saying is that I want to how I should be connected in order to do the voltage test that you mentioned above. As you can tail I have a little experience in this area.
Jim

Somers · Jun 9, 2020

Highdesertstranger
Are you referring to small amp loads like for fans, lights etc.
Or the 150 ANL type fuse I have blown?
Also is this something you could find at a hardware store?
Jim

B and C · Jun 9, 2020

Somers said:
Brian
1. When you say solar panel Lead, that would be the cable going tp positive house battery terminals.
No, from the panel to the controller. Never disconnect the controller from the battery with the panel connected.

2. I took out burnt out fuses. Just got my 150 amp fuses in mail. I should leave them out at this point correct?
Yes, how else to measure on the cable side without the battery voltage being present

If I do not put a fuse in the fuse holder between the starting battery and solenoid the power should stop right at the fuse holder correct.
Correct

Also I am not connected to house battery at this time.
What is not connected to the house battery?

What I am saying is that I want to how I should be connected in order to do the voltage test that you mentioned above. As you can tail I have a little experience in this area.
Jim

The first part of the test where you have the meter set to volts is where you don't want any voltage connected. If you read volts during this test, something is still connected to the what should be dead positive cable.

The second part where you are using the ohm's scale, you don't want any voltage on the positive cable (see test 1) because it will blow the fuse in your meter. This test is looking for the positive cable being shorted to ground.

highdesertranger · Jun 9, 2020

remove all loads, large and small.

an auto parts store will have the breakers. I use the type that plugs into a standard ATO fuse so you just take a fuse holder and add alligator clips. these breakers are available to 30Amps, like this one,

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...-fits-in-ato-fuse-slot-30409-30-bx/11122452-p

highdesertranger

Somers · Jun 16, 2020

Brian
I’ve been unable to work on my electrical system (out of town). I was trying to think back about when I hooked it up and blew the fuses. The solar panels were hooked up to the house battery. I hooked up the positive four gauge wire from the solenoid to the positive house battery. And when I hooked up the negative ground from the chassis to my house battery there was a large arc.
I then thought that I was ready to hook up the ground to my starting battery, finishing the process. When I hooked up the negative ground to my starting battery there was another giant art. At that point, I checked both 150 anl fuses and saw that they were blown.
Could my problem have something to do with the fact that the solar panels were still connected to the house battery?
Jim

izifaddag · Jun 16, 2020

B and C said:
Here is a diagram for you:

I really liked that picture so I pinched it

izifaddag · Jun 16, 2020

I am not going to plow all the way thru this thread. I am just going to add one thing that may or may not be relevant.
It is really best to have a stand off between the car charging system and the house system. All a solenoid does is only allow the house battery to be connected when the ignition switch is turned on. Presumably to drive.
It is quite possible to strain the alternator and kill it by overheating.
There are various videos on YT than can explain it better than I but suffice to say that the alternator can slowly overheat over time.
The only safe way to do this is to have a DC to DC regulator. The one that seems to be very popular is the Renogy. I also want to charge from my car but I don't want a dead alternator. So I decided to wait until I can afford a proper DC-DC unit.
If you have a super strong alternator then no problem. Even with a DC to DC the alternator can still be inadequate. Which is why some people upgrade to a 60 amp one. Ok I'm done.

B and C · Jun 16, 2020

Somers said:
Brian
Could my problem have something to do with the fact that the solar panels were still connected to the house battery?
Jim

Should not be a problem. When connecting a solar system, the controller HAS to be connected to the battery first so it knows the voltage is needs to supply. Disconnect the panel and reconnect if you connected the panel first.

I can't really tell from your description how you have the solenoid connected to the batteries and the battery connections. You have to have something misconnected or shorted. Please refer to the diagram I posted above.

The van that I did the install on in the video is still going. She just sold it to a friend of hers. The alternator has not been replaced.

Continuous Duty Solenoid

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