My van plan

I wanted to share my van plan, in case anyone has comments or suggestions. It would be my first build.

I'm thinking ProMaster so I can lay sideways. Probably 2500. The 1500 looks cooler to me, maybe more off-pavement capable, but the extra space is hard to give up after seeing both in person. The 2500 really isn't that long. And the rear axle/bar thing hangs pretty low anyway.

I'd like to insulate well so I can save on heating/cooling, and for quietness. Maybe polyiso sheets over thinsulate, covered in whatever that fuzzy automotive cloth is called (not trying to make it look like a building). I wonder if polyiso can flex to the wall curve. I want to avoid wooden ribs, thinking they're an unnecessary thermal bridge, but then I'd need a way to mount shelves/cabinets.

I like the idea of using Ikea, etc. furniture.

I'd like to max out the roof solar if I can afford it. I wonder if there are blowers that vent out the top of the wall in lieu of a roof fan. Or if I could somehow swing a 12v air conditioner without shore power.

I'm good with a bucket toilet using horse stall pellets. And a small, slide out shower pan with curtain that hangs from a hook. More of a sink-sprayer assisted sponge bath. I don't want big water tanks. I am happy with 5 or 8 gallon jugs.

Not totally sure on heating. My current diesel heater was fussy in frigid weather. I want to try an additive to avoid the fuel jelling.

Thanks all!

We need to know a lot more about you. The more we know the better to advise you. Can you really sleep sideways in that amount of space available? Have you tried it? If space is an issue insulation may not be a good idea if you are able to follow the seasons. Where you travel what temps will you be dealing with? Will shower make a waste water tank necessary where you will be staying? There are lots of considerations that we need to know and you need to study further. If nothing else rent a van and minimal camp a few weekends to test out your plans. Have you done that? How and why did it influence your decisions?

bullfrog ! said:

If nothing else rent a van and minimal camp a few weekends to test out your plans.

Click to expand...

Yes to this, X 10.

The best way to know exactly what you need and must have is to get out with the bare minimum and try it out.

Some have recommended marking off an area equivalent to your van space in your current living environment, then sketching out/marking off with tape your planned layout, building some cardboard dummies to get an idea of soace and layout.

Good luck!

There’s not any difference in looks between a 1500 & a 2500 Promaster if they are both the 136”wheelbase and having the high roof.

If you’re looking at the 159”wb then, yeah, the 2500 is longer as that wb isn’t offered in the 1500.
Payload capacity is only 350 pounds more too, than the 1500.


Comparisons of the 136” wheel base.
Also; my threads:
https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/my-2023-promaster-livability-build.49021/

intjonny

Looks like you've put a lot of thought into this plan—great starting point! Definitely agree with renting a van for a weekend to test your ideas, especially for sleeping sideways and layout practicality. Marking out space with tape and cardboard mock-ups is genius too. Good luck with your build!

Juan, In the top link below I show how I started out long ago. It was what many call a non-build as it wasn't insulated or paneled. Then I had one foot in the sticks & bricks (working) and the other in traveling. I live in the southern tip of Ohio where Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia merge. (not sure where you are)

On the ProMaster, have you considered a higher top so you can stand up in it ? Having the extra length/space may be handy. You may have noticed those in rigs with the cargo carrying rack at the rear bumper that plugs into a receiver hitch with their extra goods bundled up in a tarp ? After awhile that can be a hassle not to mention the issue of theft. (I say that as you are considering buying a vehicle to start out anew) So consider some of those things now to make your best choice that you are going to get to live with. Often those who have the cargo carrier have found a deal on a used rig that already has a receiver hitch so they make the compromise.

There are numerous threads here where current members have discussed insulating materials. Again, depending on where you live. Likewise the shelving solutions. I would recommened checking out American Van
for some ideas.

MaxxAir fans have a 12 vdc electreic fan built in a vent that is generally set in the roof, but there are likely versions that could be mounted to a wall or the rear of the roof (if a high top) above the rear doors.

GE, Amana, and other AC manufacturers now offer EZ starting window air conditioners. This is quite an advantage if you are wanting to use a small generator. (or if you have enough Solar/Battery to operate one)

Bucket toilets are common and there are many other small chemical toilets such as those made by Thetford. (with a base that detaches, seals, and can be carried into a gas station toilet and flushed there. They aren't very large. As for showers, many use an agricultural garden sprayer where they attach a kitchen sink sprinkler to the hose. The plastic tank is painted flat black so it can sit in the sun and warm the water (solar shower)



Fuel jelling is a problem with diesel or fuel oil in frigid weather for sure. Amazon offers some 12 volt heating tapes to wrap a fuel line with and that possibly be insulated with foam insulating. But if I were living in a cold climate, I wouldn't want a diesel engine in my rig. In the north in the summer months perhaps but I would be committed to traveling south in the winter.

12 volt heating tapes

Good luck with your build. Just do your research, take notes, talk with others regarding your ideas first.

WanderingRose mentioned an item in a thread titled "how to do it right the first time". There you'll findI posted this image of a clothes line & bed sheet mock up of a van rig. With the measurements in Johnie's graph you may be able to approximate some mock-up's. If you have a camping cot you may set it up to see if it will fit crosswise by the rear doors. Then you can take measurements and find used boxes at grocery stores that you can cut or modify and ta;pe together to create a full scale replication of your ideas.

As the carpenters say: "Measure twice & cut once".



In this illustration I was considering using it as a play area for Grand Parents entertaining kids. (any season) The TV would be hooked to a Laptop with HDMI so that Google Maps/Street View could be used to make believe you were taking a virtual trip anywhere. This could also be used for home schooling. (you can also use this method with Google for virtual traveling in other countries, or to preview a proposed trip somewhere)

Thank you, everyone, for the ideas and links!
I only knew of Upfit Supply, so good to learn about American Vans.
I bet those 12v heating tapes work great in a cabinet with water jugs.

I did a 2D design for proof-of-space regarding wheelbase options. I'll definitely mock up in reality before I start buying materials; that's gotta be invaluable!

More details:

• I used a Transit Connect campervan for a few weeks, and discovered:
  • I hate bed set-up and fold-down, and cramped sponge baths.
  • Standing up would be really nice. Definitely picking the high roof
• ProMasters should fit me vertically and sideways if the insulation isn't too thick.
• I can follow seasons most of the time, but would like to insulate as well as I can anyway.
• I'll be doing sponge baths.
• If I do diesel heater, I'd still pick a gas van.
  • My current heater uses this tank. It keeps the fuel from splash-leaking through the cap vent, which this style did (it originally came with the van).

Just to add to the fun of a virtual Van Rig set up like in the image above,
if you have a driving game "Steering wheel & pedals", (can be found cheap in yard sales, Goodwill stores etc) there is now softwares and app's that will allow you to use Google Maps, Streetview, Earth, to simulate driving by using those peripherals.

There are driving simulators now that allow you to drive using Google Maps or Google Earth. Instead of using a mouse to click guide arrows on the road. These simulators use a steering wheel and pedals to control a 3D vehicle on 2D map.



Driving simulators that use Google Maps or Google Earth

• 3D Driving Simulator on Google Maps: This simulator allows you to drive vehicles on Google Maps, including racing on a circuit, parking, and traveling around the world.
  

• Google Earth Driving Simulator: This simulator allows you to drive your route in 3D on Google Eart

Click to expand...

So far this isn't available for Cell Phones, but there are apps that have their own racing video where you can do this. I can image using it with a VR hood.

Buying new or used?
Where will you park and what time of year? In other words, what sort of climate, terrain, and surroundings are you dealing with?

You can absolutely put a fan in the wall.
You can mod a Promaster (or Transit) for better ground clearance.
You can buy one with an insulated foam/fiberglass reefer box if you wish. If you are planning to be on challenging temperature environments, it would be a good idea I think. Well insulated, with straight sides and roof. Or you can get a cab/chassis or cutaway and DIY the habitat, or have someone make it.

rruff said:

Buying new or used?
Where will you park and what time of year? In other words, what sort of climate, terrain, and surroundings are you dealing with?

You can absolutely put a fan in the wall.

Click to expand...

Or floor or both just make sure wherever you put it can be shut airtight to keep dust out while traveling!

I'll buy used. I'm planning to stick to the US southwest and northwest, following weather most of the time, but not all. Might visit the northeast once at some point.

I left a longer message above, but it still says waiting for moderator approval. So, I guess stay tuned

Juan Chacho said:

I'll buy used. I'm planning to stick to the US southwest and northwest, following weather most of the time, but not all. Might visit the northeast once at some point.

Click to expand...

Boondocking? In groups or solo, remote, etc? How much experience do you have? What is your budget?

If you like getting well off the beaten path, I'd steer you towards a truck rather than a van. Otherwise, a van is good.

rruff said:

Boondocking? In groups or solo, remote, etc? How much experience do you have? What is your budget?

Click to expand...

Good question. Full time, off-grid, and solo at first, since I don't know anyone. But I hope to meet people.

Experience is a few weeks in a small campervan and a smattering of electrical, automotive, and house DIY.

For budget, I'm shooting for $25 K but could go up. I'm thinking $15-20 K for the van, depending on miles.

I just learned about the "Pentastar tick" valvetrain problem. Sounds like I should look for a 2021 or newer, which cost more of my budget. Hmm.

On the subject of the Promaster rear axle and clearance for off road travel, there are mods beginning to show up for that. But it can only provide so much as the axle would bang against the floor if raised much higher. (as you can see in the photo)



It's one of the things about the Promaster that has always put me off about it.
I've always thought it was designed to be operated on "smooth paved" roads.



With the modified axle


Generally when there is a lot of interest in a owner modification specialty companies will begin to produce it. If it tkes off the Factory that builds the vehicle will begin to make and offer it. (in some cases as an option)

The Promaster has had some reliability issues.

The Chrysler 62TE transmission, has had issues with water getting into it. Water is a big enemy of auto transmissions. The 1500s, especially from the late 2000's and early 2010's have reported this. A replacement transmission may cost upwards of $4000 dollars.

2021-22's have had turn signal issues too.

In 2022 the Promaster City was discontinued.

The sound proofing used in automotive is a bit different than what you are considering. You need to continuous glue bond a foam product to the metal skin to dampen the noise. There are a lot of such products that are around that also have an aluminum heat reflecting layer on one side. You will see them getting applied to the forward firewall behind the engine on the floor, inside of the doors and on wheel wells. But that can get pricey to use those products. There is an alternative product sold at Home Depot for insulation that will work. See photo below. That insulation works good for sound dampening without a lot of inches of thickness, both the foam and that metallic layer contribute to sound dampening. This will give you that flexible product that can conform to curves that you are hoping to find. High temp spray glue such as 3M 90 or brush or spray on yellow contact cement can be used to stick the foam side to the metal skin. It has to be a high temp adhesive because you know just how very hot the metal car body can get in direct sun. Then you can add a layer of polyiso or other types of insulation if you want more R-value in the wall cavities.

@eDJ_ Neat mod. I'm guessing the reliability issues are worth the cost savings vs Transit, since you might get lucky. Let me know if you have thoughts. I read about the "Pentastar tick", too.

@maki2 I've seen the ubiquitous stick-on sound damping stuff in all the videos ("cover 25% of the flat metal areas"). That stuff looks intriguing. I'll have to compare!

Juan Chacho said:

@maki2 I've seen the ubiquitous stick-on sound damping stuff in all the videos ("cover 25% of the flat metal areas"). That stuff looks intriguing. I'll have to compare!

Click to expand...

I it my “baby teeth knowledge” on the insulating and sound dampening of metal structure when I hired in a Boeing and was assigned to the interior installation crew. One early task in those years was installing the insulation materials before the wall panels were installed. In areas near the wing the insulating batts had a thin layer of metal facing the exterior skin. In that era it was a thin layer of lead metal. It sure made those insulation batts heavy! When I did my first van Iinterior conversion in 1982 it was inside a VW van, the engine in the rear. Because I was an employee I could go to the Boeing surplus store and buy stuff at a big discount. So I went there and bought enough of those lead metal lined insulation panels to cover the surface of that engine compartment underneath the carpeting. It made for a much quieter ride going down the highway.

Many people in the forum know what they read or what gets done in houses. But my insulation knowledge and thinking goes beyond that and is professional hands-on in a metal vehicle that gets both very cold at high altitudes as well as very hot sitting on the ground on hot pavement in the sun and also gets VERY much louder than road noise. I am
A crazy female senior, I enjoy tech stuff like reading about insulation and sound control in houses and vehicles. Then when I see new products my brain goes into analytical mode. Hmmm what are it properties and advantages versus cost and weight factors and ease and cost of installation?