EnergyGuru
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Hi guys, a newbie here. Thinking of buying my first van to travel around the country. All-electric models are very appealing but I have many concerns about practicality. What is your experience in this area?
Your experience with all-electric vans
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EnergyGuru
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LOL...That's the thing, I'm afraid if I do, I won't come back haha. What do you consider the next best thing?There is none.... or dang little... you go out there, and then come back and tell us why it is a bad idea.
Frood
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Unless you are talking about a minivan I don't think there are any suitable cargo vans in the USA with sufficient range to be viable yet... If you find a way to make it work please post here with a how-to!
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IMHO We're not ready for EVs & it's not going to save the planet going off half cocked putting more stress on our already over stressed power grid. In the end I think Hydrogen is the way to go but that's not ready either. All the cars in the world only produce 1% of the worlds pollution. Here's a good read on the pro's & con's of EVs. https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/electric-vs-gas-cars-what-are-the-hidden-environmental-costs-of-evs
bullfrog !
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There are hybrid vehicles out there like the Prius that have proven very effective for single nomads but I haven’t seen many fully electric cars work well in my area as we are several miles from any quick charging stations. If they get more stations built they will come as many already come here and stay several days to get enough charge to make their way to a quick charging station.
BelgianPup
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When people fighting over a charging spot makes the national news, it's probably a good indicator that long-distance travel isn't a good idea.
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IMHO all electric is definitely what we (and the planet) need. It's just that it isn't yet affordably available for the mobile community. Unless you know something I don't.
Fossil fuels pollute and adds cost to our lives in ways we seldom even think about. Besides just dirty air, there are health hazards and ultimately earlier deaths from breathing the stuff. ICEs create more pollution than EVs from tires and brakes as well, because regenerative charging in EVs reduces need for braking or tire friction. The oil we pour into ICEs that doesn't get burned somehow, too often finds it's way into our roads and soil. Oil and filters need changing. My research says, in the U.S., less than 60 percent of used oil is actually recycled. Changing diapers on a dinosaur is how I think of that procedure. Finally, there is the queuing up at the pumps to send our money to people that already have too much of our money.
I suppose if we pumped hydrogen, that would be an improvement. But still doesn't solve as many issues as an EVs would/could/should. And there is the hope that as solar panels continue to improve, we could eventually get to a point where some of us could balance our movement against charging ability and never have to go to another pump at all. Oh, Happy Day!
I understand why Big Oil and certain vested interests might want to argue against this outcome. I just don't understand why some consumers would. But, that aside, please let me (us?) know exactly what EV options you have discovered.
Fossil fuels pollute and adds cost to our lives in ways we seldom even think about. Besides just dirty air, there are health hazards and ultimately earlier deaths from breathing the stuff. ICEs create more pollution than EVs from tires and brakes as well, because regenerative charging in EVs reduces need for braking or tire friction. The oil we pour into ICEs that doesn't get burned somehow, too often finds it's way into our roads and soil. Oil and filters need changing. My research says, in the U.S., less than 60 percent of used oil is actually recycled. Changing diapers on a dinosaur is how I think of that procedure. Finally, there is the queuing up at the pumps to send our money to people that already have too much of our money.
I suppose if we pumped hydrogen, that would be an improvement. But still doesn't solve as many issues as an EVs would/could/should. And there is the hope that as solar panels continue to improve, we could eventually get to a point where some of us could balance our movement against charging ability and never have to go to another pump at all. Oh, Happy Day!
I understand why Big Oil and certain vested interests might want to argue against this outcome. I just don't understand why some consumers would. But, that aside, please let me (us?) know exactly what EV options you have discovered.
This not true.. 25 to 30%
https://leasecar.uk/blog/what-percent-of-carbon-emissions-comes-from-cars/
That is a HUGE question... Ask me and I would say go with a 20k used class a workhorse based W22 chassis from 2003 and up... but that was a decision I made for myself going fulltime, with no storage shed or place back home.... so everything I own is with me... not much stuff? do as small as you like... gas is still expensive and you have to find the middle ground for you between ultra fuel efficient and enough space to not drive you coo-coo... are you going to put on 15k miles a year touring, orwill you keep it as low as possible? ... how tall are you? any mechanical skills? I know a few people that their "must have" is an ice maker...
Where to next is you doing hundreds of hours of research, so you can make better decisions for you.... read read read.... watch videos... make a list of "musts" and "don't cares"... look at what didn't work for people, and how that might apply to you... how far off the beaten path do you want to get? and how far down that road ( goat path) will your vehicle take you.... if you go large you need alt transport... an ebike?
on and on...
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I said cars, your info includes cars, vans, busses, most all road vehicles so it's not apples for apples. Tell me this the EPA claims Burning one gallon of gasoline emits 8,887 grams (19.59 lbs) of CO2.5. A gallon of gas weighs 6# per gallon. Tell me where the extra 14# comes from?
I am not an atmospheric scientist, so I have to go by what they say.
Spaceman Spiff
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Simplified answer:
Carbon (C, atomic weight 6, from gasoline)
Oxygen (O, atomic weight 8, from air)
C+2O = CO2 (atomic weight 22).
Approximately 72% of the weight of CO2 from the combustion of gasoline comes from air.Discrepancy comes from other things happening when gas is combusted under pressure.
Happy Camper
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One small correction from info posted above.
https://www.ehn.org/amp/electric-ca...ticles-into-the-soil-air-and-water-2662315885
https://www.ehn.org/amp/electric-ca...ticles-into-the-soil-air-and-water-2662315885
Spaceman Spiff
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We have had over 100 years and 100's of millions of vehicles to study to understand the pro's and con's of ICE. Currently, EVs account for about 1% of vehicle traffic. When that gets to ~20% we will have a better idea of the environmental damage done by EVs. Current mining practices doesn't show a lot of hope.
There are a lot of vested interests on both sides and propagandists are very good a cherry picking data.
Some of us have done our due diligence and decided that EVs don't work for us. They seem to work well for commuting with reliable charging sometime during the day. I can't afford a car just for commuting.
If you want an EV I would recommend getting it soon. Costs are going to go up ..... a lot.
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I found my own answer
How can burning one gallon of gasoline produce 8,887 grams (approximately 20 pounds) of tailpipe carbon, when one gallon of gasoline weighs only about six pounds?
Most of the weight of the CO2 doesn't come from the gasoline itself, but the oxygen in the air. When gasoline burns, the carbon and hydrogen separate. The hydrogen combines with oxygen to form water (H2O), and carbon combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide (CO2). Visit fueleconomy.gov for more details, including the calculations.
How can burning one gallon of gasoline produce 8,887 grams (approximately 20 pounds) of tailpipe carbon, when one gallon of gasoline weighs only about six pounds?
Most of the weight of the CO2 doesn't come from the gasoline itself, but the oxygen in the air. When gasoline burns, the carbon and hydrogen separate. The hydrogen combines with oxygen to form water (H2O), and carbon combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide (CO2). Visit fueleconomy.gov for more details, including the calculations.
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Why nitpick fuel math while ignoring everything else when considering if EVs would be better than ICEs?
Internal combustion engines (ICEs)—gas or diesel—represent one of today’s most significant environmental threats. From petroleum-based fuel extraction and refinement to consumption in vehicles and other applications, ICEs produce greenhouse gas (GHG) and particle emissions that disrupt nature’s lifecycles and systems and harm all organisms. https://delta-q.com/industry-news/the-effects-of-internal-combustion-engines-on-the-environment/
If you want more chemistry data, read the entire referenced source, it explains ICE pollutants more exactly.
* Greenhouse gasses that add to global warming. Carbon dioxide (CO2), Methane (CH4), Nitrous oxide (N2O).
* Health Issues. Carbon monoxide (CO), an odorless, tasteless, and colorless gas capable of killing those who inhale it and Nitrogen oxides (NOx), which include nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide. Nitrogen oxides can have serious effects on the environment and the respiratory systems of both humans and animals.
* Particulate matter—or “particle pollution”—refers to tiny, airborne solid or liquid matter like soot and dust. ICEs (and diesel engines especially) emit significant amounts of PM that pose severe environmental (e.g., ground-level ozone) and health risks (e.g., cancer).
If anyone has a better source(s) that changes this dynamic, please post it, because I sure can't find any.
Sure, there are downsides to battery material mining that I do not discount. But none of the EV deniers seem to ever mention the oil refining industry's equivalent pollution. Including the methane escape or burn-off from closed oil wells, referred to as flaring? Every year, U.S. oil and gas companies set fire to billions of cubic feet of natural gas and directly vent an additional unknown amount. These processes, known as flaring and venting, don’t just waste resources; they also pollute the atmosphere with hazardous, global-warming gases, such as methane. https://insideclimatenews.org/news/25022022/flaring-venting-natural-gas-economics/
On balance, even without technology advances, I think the electric option is much preferable. I only question how WE can afford or find EV options for a mobile lifestyle. Winnebago eRV2 offers an option with a price tag of $200,000+. And it's still considered a prototype! And it will certainly not go far just without seeking out charging stations. But, I think it is an indication of a considerable demand. Especially for those of us that do not require daily commutes and are willing to sit in place for a week or more collecting enough solar power between short trips further down the road.
The near future will likely be H2 AND battery options...with a battery/H2 hybrid RV probably being the best choice for range and versatility.
The price of solar and wind farms is now cheaper than coal powered power plants...and are predicted to get even MORE cost effective. Overbuilding solar and/or off-shore wind farms would allow any excess power to be dumped into battery storage...along with cheap H2 (and O2) production--since the excess power would otherwise be wasted. Cheap H2 makes fuelcell transports (cars, buses, trains, ships, etc) much more likely...and cheap liquified O2 makes SpaceX launches even cheaper then they are now.
The price of solar and wind farms is now cheaper than coal powered power plants...and are predicted to get even MORE cost effective. Overbuilding solar and/or off-shore wind farms would allow any excess power to be dumped into battery storage...along with cheap H2 (and O2) production--since the excess power would otherwise be wasted. Cheap H2 makes fuelcell transports (cars, buses, trains, ships, etc) much more likely...and cheap liquified O2 makes SpaceX launches even cheaper then they are now.
I'm with Bullfrog. And besides the Prius (esp. the discontinued Prius V, which is more "station wagon" shaped), Toyota also offers the excellent Sienna minivan with a hybrid powertrain. As far as electric vehicles for nomads, I'd stick with hybrids for now.
Happy Camper
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If they don't know everything that is changing the climate, I'd really prefer then not to call it settled science.
Maybe educated scientific guesses based on research. While adjusting our understanding as we learn more. That seems a bit more honest. I like EVs and most tech advances. But not forced changes based on limited knowledge.
https://www.wired.com/story/a-revelation-about-trees-is-messing-with-climate-calculations/
