Who needs solar?

[Simran]

Who needs solar is kind of a relative question. I know in the SW there are solar distributers all over. The sun shines a lot of the time so a small solar panel will produce a great deal of energy. Solar panels are affordable because dealers have pallets of them in stock to choose from.
In the Midwest there is plenty of sunshine but in the winter the days get pretty short limiting the amount of sunshine for charging purposes. the cost of solar panels is relatively high because they are not readily available. Shipping costs must be paid to get them to our location. They become expensive fast; especially the larger ones.
I can certainly see where someone in the NW USA would have to think real hard about solar. Certain times of the year sunshine is nearly non existent. That's not to say that a solar panel will not charge a battery; it just becomes more difficult requiring larger solar panels. This in turn may become cost prohibitive; a generator may be more efficient in places like the NW or maybe even in the Midwest.
All that said; I use solar in the northern Midwest and love it. I like the idea of having no outside expense to having electricity available to me; after the initial cost of the solar equipment. It has been so long since I've used my generator I'm seriously wondering if the gas is not varnished up in the tank.
My personal opinion is thus. Everyone should consider the possible locations of their travel and see what the possibilities for sunshine are. Some of the coldest states are very high on the scale for favorable solar charging. North Dakota, South Dakota & Minnesota are all relatively favorable for solar charging. People think not because it is so cold. But just think about our atmosphere; one of the requirements for extremely frigid temps. is clear skies. Clear skies bring abundant sunshine even in sub zero temps.
I don't think solar is for everyone but I think some due diligence, in research, is in order when deciding to buy solar or go with a generator only.
Of course both would be nice but . . . sometimes we can't have everything.

 

[Willy]

I live up here in BC and, during the winter, have no problems getting enough solar.. despite the abundant cloud cover and, often enuf, snow on my panels. Sure, I get less during the winter, but I always get some. ..Willy.

 

[Zil]

Yes, willy. and you are also up north where the days get short in the winter time.

 

[Simran]

Gotta love crawling on top of a tall outfit to sweep the snow off panels when its 0 outside!! :blush:

I wouldn't trade my solar set up for anything . . . but maybe a bigger one.

 

[Lucky mike]

Im the same.....I spend alot of time in New England , my last 3 years including the winters strictly in a boondock mode......I might run the generator 3 hours a week. I have six batteries onboard that have done me very well and the solar has more than paid for itself over the last 4 years.

 

[compassrose]

It's the initial cost that stops us. Also we like to park under trees. Someplace on the internet (don't remember where) I found an article that laid out just what it would take to pay back the solar investment. It would take us decades to get our payback. And I simply don't have the $$ to toss in order to buy those "$1 per watt" solar panels (not to mention all the other parts needed to put a system together). So for us, it's a contractor gas generator (8750W/7000W Harbor Freight Predator) converted to LP. We would only use the generator while traveling down a road or in a parking lot. We have heard this generator up close. It is pretty quiet. We were standing about 1 ft away and speaking in normal voice. It was quieter than the similar sized Honda "quiet" generator. For well under $1k I can buy a generator and conversion kit, build an Escapees-tamper-proof sound reducing generator enclosure plus invest in a 1 lb box of roofing nails (for anyone who decides to "tap" my generator per a removed thread on Escapees). We carry LP with us anyway and will be carrying the equivalent of 100LB tank. UPside about LP generator is we can let it set for years and it will still crank right up when needed. Unlike the POS Onan we have in pieces in the shed (Onan certified mechanic did not expect us to want the old genny back after we bought a replacement from him).

If you want to do solar, I suggest you read Handy Bob's Blog and Jack Mayer's page and presentation. Keep in mind, that like most things, it's not for everyone. Despite what "everyone" says.

 

[Willy]

Well, if it's a 'dry' snow, a short drive takes care of things. I've got 180W sitting on the roof and find it gets me through the winters fine. One thing I'd like to get is another storage battery, since often I ended up with more solar than I needed.. might as well make use of it.
Another thing I have, aside from the dual battery charge controller, is a battery isolator that runs to my 'fridge' battery. Not really important to have in the winter, since my CR-50 sits in the cab of my truck, but useful in the summer when refrigeration is REALLY important. ..Willy

 

[compassrose]

You might want to also read RV Solar Electric Systems

 

[Lucky mike]

I guess the answer would be....depending on ones budget!.....a battery bank of 4 takes me 3 hrs to bring them back up to an idle charge.....so if one would figure in fuel cost and maint. of the genny thats about 100 a month...of course your mileage will vary!!!

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I guess the answer would be....depending on ones budget!.....a battery bank of 4 takes me 3 hrs to bring them back up to an idle charge.....so if one would figure in fuel cost and maint. of the genny thats about 100 a month...of course your mileage will vary!!!

 

[Willy]

I spend a fair amount of time driving, year 'round, so using the alternator makes sense. Another thing I'm gonna stick in is a solenoid that hooks up the 2 battery terminals on my isolator. This way, if I happen to get a dead starting battery, all I gotta do is press a button and PESTO!!.. instant jump start. I've got cable, thicker than most jumpers, going from the isolator to the fridge battery and it can easily handle the current. ..Willy.

 

[SoulRaven]

I guess the answer would be....depending on ones budget!.....a battery bank of 4 takes me 3 hrs to bring them back up to an idle charge.....so if one would figure in fuel cost and maint. of the genny thats about 100 a month...of course your mileage will vary!!!

Greetings!

Have you considered a 12v generator? Only takes me about 15-20 mins once per week. 1 gallon of gas per month...

They're real easy to build, and there's kits available for the brackets and stuff. They even have a coupler available to eliminate belts.

Basically it's just one or more car alternators attached to a small gas motor. Very efficient at charging your batteries.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

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I spend a fair amount of time driving, year 'round, so using the alternator makes sense. Another thing I'm gonna stick in is a solenoid that hooks up the 2 battery terminals on my isolator. This way, if I happen to get a dead starting battery, all I gotta do is press a button and PESTO!!.. instant jump start. I've got cable, thicker than most jumpers, going from the isolator to the fridge battery and it can easily handle the current. ..Willy.

Greetings!

They also have a device called a battery saver, that will prevent your starting battery from being drained below starting level...


Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

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Greetings!

Most of the isolators I've worked with will automatically connect the two batteries as soon as you turn on the ignition.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[Willy]

AFAIK, each terminal of the isolator has a diode which prevents 'backflow'. Of course, mine isn't a mechanical unit and is rated for, if I remember correctly, abt. 120A max.
In regards to the battery saver, are you talking about those cheapass little solar panels that plug into the cigarette lighter receptacle? If so.. can't stand the things. Any current draw that would kill my battery overnight, let's say, wouldn't be helped by one of those and a 3 way switch from my charge controller (one lead to the fridge battery and the other to the starter) would let me charge the starter battery up using the big boys on my roof. I don't have enough in the way of parasitic power draws to worry about it anyway. ..Willy.

 

[Bdog1]

That "saver" is an auto cut-off device that disconnects the load at a preset voltage. (12.6v) some are adjustable. That way you use all your battery's together.

 

[Willy]

Here's some literature re. the type of battery isolator I'm using.. Surepower

 

[SternWake]

Depleted batteries, when fed high currents, can be recharged fairly quickly to ~80% state of charge.

Going from 80 to 100% takes hours and hours and perhaps a few more on top of that. There is no way around this, not with a 300 amp chrome plated alternator nor any other charging method.
Higher voltages can squeeze in more recharging current faster but going above 15 volts is detrimental to battery life, and can be damaging to anything hooked to the battery during applications of those voltages.

Burning gasoline via any method in the 85% State of charge+ range to recharge further, is a waste of gas, and this range is where Solar, if sufficient solar radiation is available and sufficient panel to harvest it really shines.


But, When cycled daily, it is important to get the batteries as close to 100% as possible, at least weekly, for maximum longevity and performance during that lifespan.

A true 100% recharge is pretty rare. If one has flooded batteries, and cares to take temperature compensated Specific gravity readings and has a baseline (taken when new and fully charged) to compare them to, one can easily see this. It might require an equalization cycle( intentional overcharge) to achieve a true 100% recharge. My Flooded battery requires stupid high voltages for way too long to get the SG as high as it can go. I am rather disappointed in it as it is an expensive true deep cycle 12v battery from a highly respected manufacturer.

Yet it still meets my needs, and if I were to choose to be ignorant as to state of charge and the voltage it holds for a certain amount of amp hours removed from it, well, ignorance can be bliss. At least until failure and dealing with premature battery replacement costs and stresses and inconveniences involved due to that ignorance.

Even when I have a solar surplus and take a specific gravity in the afternoon when the battery is accepting less than half an amp at 14.9v reading, it is not as high as it can go.

Those who take voltage readings shortly after turning off a charging source are being mislead by surface charge. It can take 24 hours or more after removal from charging or discharging sources for voltage to stabilize to the point where a voltage reading can give a truly accurate state of charge. But those who take a voltage reading after turning off their engine, see 13.2+ volts and think they have fully recharged the battery, are usually very deluded.

Solar is not for everybody. In My situation and location it, and an efficient compressor fridge, are the best things I've done to my Van for living this lifestyle. It has paid for itself many times over in Ice and gas.

Today the sun never came out from behind thick clouds, yet I still harvested 24 amp hours from 198 watts of solar. I've been consuming between 20 and 40A/h a night lately.

I rarely have to worry about my batteries not being able to power my needs, and I cannot imagine not having solar, or discharging my batteries during daylight hours.

In the end, batteries are rented. Properly and promptly recharged batteries will give a longer cycle life, but they will still fail at some point. Solar can greatly extend this lifespan especially if someone does go down that ignorance is bliss path.

 

[akrvbob]

If you can get to Flagstaff Az, I can put a 240 watt panel and Blue Sky controller on your van for $650 dollars. Only $650 for free electricity for the rest of your life.

Of course you're going to give up a lot to do it: no more breakdowns, no repairs, no oil changes, no tune ups, no noise, no pissed off neighbors, no more gas going bad. But you can't have everything!

There are some situations where solar doesn't make sense, but not many.
Bob

 

[Lucky mike]

Im with you Bob...
I tote a small generator for those just in case moments...of course the rig came with a 6500 gas hog on it too.....but for the investment you cannot beat solar.....just in comfort savings while boondocking is worth it!!!!

 

[Simran]

What I like about solar is ; no fiddling with it. It just works. The only time I need to do anything is to clear off the panel once in awhile. I had to pay a bit more for my panel because of the shipping but I made up for it on the great deal I got on my used charge controller. I bought my mppt charge controller for $50.00 about a year and a half ago. If you don't get in a hurry you can put a charging system together relatively reasonable; even in the upper Midwest where you have to pay shipping on the panels.

 

[SoulRaven]

AFAIK, each terminal of the isolator has a diode which prevents 'backflow'. Of course, mine isn't a mechanical unit and is rated for, if I remember correctly, abt. 120A max.
In regards to the battery saver, are you talking about those cheapass little solar panels that plug into the cigarette lighter receptacle? If so.. can't stand the things. Any current draw that would kill my battery overnight, let's say, wouldn't be helped by one of those and a 3 way switch from my charge controller (one lead to the fridge battery and the other to the starter) would let me charge the starter battery up using the big boys on my roof. I don't have enough in the way of parasitic power draws to worry about it anyway. ..Willy.

Greetings!

No the battery savers I was referring to are the ones which will basically disconnect your battery if the voltage drops below xx volts, until the ignition is turned on, thus reserving enough power to start the vehicle.

Cheers!

The CamperVan_Man

 

[SternWake]

Those battery savers which disconnect Aux loads at XX volts are certainly an option, and an easy one, for those whom setting up an Auxiliary battery is too confounding or who simply do not need a more complex system. But I would not want my fridge getting cut off and food spoiling because of such a device. Also many who use these find their starting battery does not last very long doing the task it was not designed for. A Marine/ Dual purpose battery would be better.

I recently drained 70 amp hours from my newish 90 amp hour NorthStar AGM battery, and it had no issue cranking my V8 engine on its own.

I am not a fan of the Diode based isolators. Even if they have the manipulator voltage regulator wire which increases alternator voltage to overcome the Diode voltage drop, those big heat sinks are electricity generated by gasoline, not going into the batteries, but into the atmosphere. If they do not have the alternator manipulator wire than there is a .5 to .7 volt drop across the isolator, insuring the batteries never get fully charged via the alternator. that task is challenging enough without adding that variable to it.

I personally like the option of being able to fiddle with my solar acceptance and float voltages and seeing how they affect Specific gravity, but then I am a battery nerd. I also just like not worrying about it too. I see sunlight and I know my battery(s) are getting charged and all is well. The few times I had the solar disconnected I found it unacceptable and absolutely intolerable that during daylight hours, my batteries were still discharging and I was having to worry about the fridge shutting off, or dragging the batteries too low and damaging them.

I think those that avoid solar will always rationalize their decision. I think those that do get solar will never regret it.