Which van now??

[climbing coastie]

This past summer I bought a 2015 Ram Promaster Diesel to convert into a camper van. Unfortunately I've had several issues with it and am in the process of a Lemon Law buy-back.

I did a lot of research on the big three newer vans (Sprinter, Promaster, Transit) before my purchase and ultimately decided that the Promaster was the perfect platform. But with all my issues and the lack of customer service from FCA I’m not interested in a replacement and will probably never own another FCA product again. We are shying away from the Transit as it is a new platform to the U.S. and don’t want to go through the growing pains of that again. My wife isn’t fond of the new Sprinter layout and I’m not fond of the price.
 
So that leaves us with the option of either an Econoline or Express. I was looking at some Econolines in the 2011 range, but a coworker has one with 65,000 miles on it and the transmission is going out. Is this a common problem for this van/year? Any suggestions on a good year/make to get, or more importantly to avoid? What about a van with a Powerstroke or Duramax diesel in it? We will miss the 25+ mpg we are getting in the Promaster!

I don’t want to say price isn’t an issue, but having bought new already I’m not on a really tight budget for a used van.

Another option is to get an older van to use for a couple years until they work all the kinks out of the new vehicles and look at buying new again.
 
I’m open to any and all suggestions at this point!
 

 

[ahh_me2]

Another option is to get an older van to use for a couple years until they work all the kinks out of the new vehicles and look at buying new again.

That's what I would do if I was in your situation.

 

[TMG51]

I'm curious, do you have a brief rundown of your issues with the Promaster? (No need to go into service details, just what actually went wrong with the vehicle. If you don't mind.)
I won't be "upgrading" my van anytime soon but I've been thinking that if I did it would be to a Promaster.

 

[29chico]

I did a ton of research and ended up with a 2012 G3500 GMC Savana 1 ton cargo extended van with the 4.8L L20 engine and the 6L90e six speed tranny.  Bought it used from Penske with 54k miles for $19.5k.  It needed tires so on went a set of Michelin LTX MS2's, Bilstein shocks and an alignment.   The LTX MS2 tires are the only low rolling resistance light truck tires that I am aware of.  All three of my Ford trucks roll on them.  Took it out on a test 180 mile loop, filled up before and after at the same pump at Costco.  Drove it for mileage and got 23.2 mpg.

Later got an Autohome Airland roof tent and got 24.7 mpg on a 150 mile run.  Right after that fill up a 20-25 mph headwind came up and I got 20.7 mpg on a 110 mile stretch.  Granted, these mileage results were from a lightly loaded van, not a built out conversion.  My van does not have cruise control and don't think that I need or want it.

I also added the Roadmaster Active suspension system.  Between the tires, shocks and rear suspension upgrade there was a big improvement in ride and drive dynamics.  

Yes the Express/Savana vans are a dated design. However they have been massively upgraded in the drive line department.  The E series Ford vans never got a 6 speed tranny and the engines simply don't compare to the LS series from GM.   The 6L90e trans has two overdrives and a manual mode that enables a skilled driver to maximize the performance/mileage of the van.

The extended E series vans do not have an extended wheelbase. Neither did the RAM full size vans. Both Ford and RAM just extend the body behind the rear axle. The Express/Savana extended vans do have an extended wheelbase. The longer wheelbase has benefits in ride, drive, towing and safety.

I have been a huge Ford truck fan for decades.  Sadly, not anymore...

 

[climbing coastie]

Thanks for all the input!

TMG51, Basicly there is a software issue that throws a "low turbo pressure" code above 7000 feet. I was told (and confirmed) that FCA knew about this issue before I bought my van. The final draw was that it is leaking water into the rocker pannel area. You can read more on my blog in my signature.

29chico, Wow! I didn't realize the Express/Savana did so well with gas milage. I'll be focusing on them! As an added bonus they are a little wider than the Ford so I might be able to pull off sleeping crosswise in one.

 

[myke]

Can't believe you had to deal with all those issues with the brand new PM. I am shying away from them at this point too even though I would have gone with the gas version. To few places to get them serviced.

That Express/Savana must be diesel?

 

[29chico]

Can't believe you had to deal with all those issues with the brand new PM. I am shying away from them at this point too even though I would have gone with the gas version. To few places to get them serviced.

That Express/Savana must be diesel?

Gas not diesel.

 

[ZoNiE]

The 5R55E 5 speed automatic in the Fords is a bit of a problem. At about 50-70K they start to exhibit "2-3 flair" which feels like the transmission is slipping. It is only a solenoid failure and is relatively easy and cheap to have repaired, but the usual scumbags in the transmission industry usually have your rig up on a lift and the transmission out of it in 30 min and then hit you with "yeah, she a gonna need a full rebuild, or we can put it back in for $400"

Needless to say, I went through this on a 2001 Explorer Sport Trac that I towed pretty heavily with, so I opted for the "clean your pipes" (insert related vulgarity here) rebuild with upgraded planetary gearsets and a lifetime warranty. That was in 2004, and I still own the vehicle. It gets a free annual inspection with fluid change every year (also free) and has had the valve body replaced sometime around 2010, with a new one, and recently its torque converter shit the bed. Both were replaced for free, including my free State Farm towing, so paying the scumbag for the lifetime warranty was worth the money, and whether they really installed upgraded planetaries or not, it shifted much better after that upgrade. The guy who manages the place I take it has been there since day one, He sold me the warranty, and hates to see me come in every December. He really hated it when It came in on the hook last year at 135K miles. He had to fix it for free since it is still titled to me. (My 21 year old son drives this now), and it is peace of mind that if it dies, all he has to do is call state farm and send it to the transmission shop.

Don't let all of that dissuade you. If you buy from a dealer, and it appears that you probably will, just get the extended warranty. I have the Ford $100 deductible warranty on my 2009 Sport Trac and it has paid for itself about 5X over due to having spent the first 5 years of its life in New England Winters. It goes for 5 years from when I bought it (used) and 125K miles.

The newer Fords have the 6RE transmission, which is a licensed Asian Warner design and is rock solid. I'm not sure the Econolines get this, however. No problems at 100K with that one so far, and I tow a 3 Ton Travel trailer on 6% grades in 110* heat about 5 times each summer, and she's still good even keeping that little 4.6L V8 spooled up to 4500-5000 RPM to keep my speed up around 50-60MPH on those long hills. The Ford Modular V8's and 6 Speed Automatics are tough players.

The Transit, if you consider the Ecoboost model, is essentially an F150 underneath, engine and transmission wise. You are also getting a model that has been consistently a best seller in Europe. The Promaster is a very dated Fiat model. Fix It Again, Tony. F*kn Italians Attempt Transportation. Fiat's were some of the worst cars you could ever buy here in the US, and Now all the Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge models are starting to be based on them. My business partner has a 2014 Grand Cherokee. Piece of total Shit. Quality is on par with the 1960's cars from the big three. It wouldn't surprise me to see FCA go away in a few years. Maybe Jeep will survive it, maybe not this time.

Buy a Ford, Econoline or Transit, and you will be pretty happy. If you look at the Chevy Express, consider the Diesel. They are a very good value, and they have an Allison transmission.

 

[BradKW]

My interest began with Sprinters, but after months of reading I've (kind of) decided that the high potential for expensive maintenance at difficult to find service centers could cause me a lot of grief. I have learned much about diesels through this, and have also concluded that I would prefer a gas engine. At least in comparison to the available diesels in what I'm looking at. Still on the fence though, and I haven't ruled out a 2006, the last year before emissions upgrades.

I was initially very interested in the PMs, mostly due to their body design...I really like the rear cargo area. However, for such a new vehicle, there are just too many negative reports like yours. Most center around the electrical system. And the deeper I look at what a PM really is, the more sure I am that I don't want it.

Currently I am feeling very positive about the Ford Transit with the EB engine. As said above, its basically a F-series truck, and I like that. I also like that the extended version adds good space, but still isn't as long as the EB sprinter. If you haven't come across it yet, take a look at the Transit forum...lots of very knowledgeable people on there, many are moving from a Sprinter. I believe there's even a few people well over 100k now. Anyway, its a great information base, and there really isn't any fanboy-ism that can be so un-useful. http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/ford-transit-versus-competition/

I linked a sub-forum...I like that one of the threads is "Sorry Ford, I bought a PM" ...and all the responses were basically "hey, congrats on your purchase and hope it works out."

I also feel more comfortable moving forward with a build where there are so many people who've already done it, posted it, and are willing to help out on vehicle-specific issues.

Anyway, hope you win with whatever you choose

 

[johnny b]

F    I    A     T

Fixing   It     All  the    Time

 

[akrvbob]

Ford burned it's bridges with me when it put out a very bad diesel and a bad gas engine at the same time and wouldn't make it right with its customers. Before the 5.4 gas I was a Ford man, never again.

While Ford was doing everything wrong Chevy was doing everything right. The 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0 are all exceptionally strong, reliable engines capable of great MPG. Plus their trannys are the best on the market now.

I'm not fond of their body style, it curves in too much and on the passenger vans the plastic trim is very intrusive. The cargo vans solves that problem.

Get a recent Chevy Express, you won't regret it. They even make an AWD version if you can find it.
Bob

 

[myke]

Gas not diesel.

And you get 24 mpg? Doesn't even seem possible... most get about 12-14mpg in those...

Unfortunately the Promaster, Transit and Sprinter all have their own set of issues...

 

[29chico]

And you get 24 mpg? Doesn't even seem possible... most get about 12-14mpg in those...

Unfortunately the Promaster, Transit and Sprinter all have their own set of issues...

A couple of thin things  to remember.  Serious driving for mileage. I seem to be pretty good at it when I really focus.   Very light load or none at all.  So this is not representative at all of what a fully built out conversion van would get for mileage.  I suppose that the tires are responsible for about two mpg as well.

The highest mpg that I got before the roof tent was 23.2. 

I rented a 2015 3\4 ton g2500 with the 4.8L 6 speed last spring when my old f250 diesel had a problem when on  a mtb trip around the southwest.  The two of us, gear and all was about half a ton or a bit more.  We noticed early on that we were not putting a lot of gas in the rental van.  We were not trying to get high mileage and were just not driving over 65.  We were getting about 20 mpg most of the trip.  Towards the end of the trip I decided to drive it hard, 80 mph on hwy 15 in Utah in rolling terrain with a headwind.  On that tank we got just over 18 mpg.  Impressive.

 

[BigT]

F    I    A     T

Fixing   It     All  the    Time

I prefer --->  Found   In   A   Toilet. 


Nice looking vans, but until they've been out a while longer and had the various bugs fixed, I'm going to keep what I've got.

 

[accrete]

...Get a recent Chevy Express, you won't regret it. They even make an AWD version if you can find it...

: ) My wife drives our 2010 Chevy AWD converted cargo van as her daily driver. We take it out about once a month from spring thaw to fall freeze. 5 years old last month and 35K miles...looks and runs like new. We were Toyota peeps before that 1st American car purchase. It is a great vehicle. Ours has the 5.3L, millage for us is not typical, as we run around with my wife's prospecting gear under the bed! fully loaded at ~7K we get 13 to 15mpg. Out on the highway with a tailwind we've seen 19.

We've decided to swap out for a Ford Transit LWBe HR 3.5EB for my birthday next holiday season. The one thing we will miss most here on the Oregon Coast will be the AWD in our current van once sold , (

Thom

 

[LeeRevell]

The Ford Transit isn't a "new" design.  Been sold in Europe for decades with occasional updates.  It's a pretty proven platform.  Ugly as homemade sin as are the Sprinter and Fiat vans.  I will stick with what I know - the third gen Ford vans.  I find the standard wheelbase of the extended vans have advantages in interior layouts over the Chevy/GM vans' extended wheelbase.  Turning circle is a bit shorter too though one has to keep the rear overhang in mind.
Each approach has pros and cons.

 

[climbing coastie]

I prefer --->  Found   In   A   Toilet. 


Nice looking vans, but until they've been out a while longer and had the various bugs fixed, I'm going to keep what I've got.

Johnny and BigT,

Thanks for contributing helpful information to my post! I thought that this forum was to help others with useful info, not make fun of them.

I still stand that if my Promaster worked correctly it would be THE BEST platform out there for me to convert to a camper or live in. There are many out there that are more than happy with their decision to get a PM. I don't know if it's the fact that I want to use mine at altitude so much or if I just got a true lemon. But again, thanks for your helpful input.

 

[climbing coastie]

The Ford Transit isn't a "new" design.  Been sold in Europe for decades with occasional updates.  It's a pretty proven platform.  Ugly as homemade sin as are the Sprinter and Fiat vans.  I will stick with what I know - the third gen Ford vans.  I find the standard wheelbase of the extended vans have advantages in interior layouts over the Chevy/GM vans' extended wheelbase.  Turning circle is a bit shorter too though one has to keep the rear overhang in mind.
Each approach has pros and cons.

Lee,

The Promster isn't new either. It is based off the Fiat Ducato that is the #1 platform in Europe for campervans for the last 10+ years. It's the fact that it cost FCA less to put a new unproven diesel in it than it did to get the Euro one to pass our emmisions. Same thing with the Transit, same body different engines as the Euro's.

The gas engines are the same that have been around in both companies for years. Ford "modified" the 3.2L while Ram went with a new 3.0L. Either way after dealing with all this, I'm done with "new to the US" vans.

 

[BigT]

Johnny and BigT,

Thanks for contributing helpful information to my post! I thought that this forum was to help others with useful info, not make fun of them.

Wow, sensitive much?  

My comment was not intended as a insult towards your particular choice of vehicle, it was meant as a humorous reply to Johnny's joke about what FIAT stands for.  

Personally I wish the PM got better reviews.  I think it's an awesome looking van with endless potential, and it's still on my list of possible future vans, should they sort out the bugs.

 

[highdesertranger]

I am glad I didn't respond with my version of Fiat. highdesertranger