Which is cheaper, snowbirding 1600 miles or staying put with generator-powered A/C?

[debit.servus]

Say Vandweller A has a 10 MPG van, and lives in Quartzsite during the winter. Vandweller A desires to be in a different biome in Montana or Alberta CANADA to beat the Quartzsite heat 6 months out of the year. He travels 800 miles north for the summer and travels 800 miles back to Quartzsite for the winter. Because he enjoys warm days and cool nights in the summer, he doesn't need A/C.

Vandweller B is poor, a deprevationist or doesn't desire to ever be in a non-desert biome. He stays put in Quartzsite and rents a spot with pay-as-you-go electricity rate. Vandweller B has sufficient electric A/C to bring the van down to 72 F. The cost of renting a spot is a variable, so well say $150 per month for a suburban driveway space NOT including electricity. I don't know what the cost per KWH is in Quartzsite so people who live there fill me in.

To make this fair, we will not compare Vandweller B and introduce you to Vandweller C. Vandweller C stays put and spends the summer outside of Quartzsite, He runs his A/C from an ulta-quiet, ultra-efficient holy HONDA generator. He runs it for at least 8 hours a day or whenever the outside temperature prohibits evaporative cooling because he wants to be comfortable in a 72 degree van. Vandweller C thinks he is saving the big bucks not snowbirding, even with the generator burning gas at least 8 hours a day for those six months out of the year. So factor the fuel-per-hour to run a 8000 BTU AC using average summer temperature in Quartzsite with a 15% cushion increase for potential upward heat fluctuation. Vandweller Cs life radius is less than 50 miles if that helps with the cost calculation.

Vandweller A & C have identical regular top, regular cab vans that get 10 MPG highway. They both have decent insulation, and ventalation. Trying to remove variables here...

So who is cheaper, Vandweller A or Vandweller C? We are only comparing the costs to keep cool and comfortable between Vandweller A & C. I believe that it's cheaper to snowbird 1600 miles than to stay put in the Southwest summer. I believe it's cheaper due to the high cost of A/C during peak grid hours and peak heat, and even higher cost from a gasoline generator. This comes down to who burns more gallons of gas? Gas in this hypothetical comparision is $3 a gallon.

Once we have throughly answered this question we can move the discussion more broadly. I get to decide when we broaden the topic.

 

[Goshawk]

just create a spreadsheet with the three situations, and adjust each. All the factors involved will be vary opinionated in their interpretation.

 

[BradKW]

If you had a job and wanted to keep it, then staying put would make you thousands, while leaving would cost you a job...

 

[WheelEstate USA]

Are we also factoring in the cost of the A/C and Honda?

I'm  a desert rat and I have no interest in sitting inside a van while its 110 outside. Time to drive to Flagstaff or one of our other forests where summers are comfortable.

This belongs with crazy things people do to try and save a nickle.

 

[Phantom Blooper]

Are these questions meant to be in the box or outside the box?

 

[MrNoodly]

Yes, money is an issue for most of us living this lifestyle, but I think it needs to be balanced against what sort of life you want to have. I spent 61 years staying in place, so the idea of spending months in the same spot—no matter how wonderful it is—doesn't appeal to me at all. It would be existing, not living.

The distance between, say, Quartzsite and Kalispell is the same whether I drive there in three days or over the course of three months. But it's more interesting to take my time. And whatever extra I might spend on gas by taking an indirect root is the price I'm willing to pay for a fuller life.

 

[SoulRaven]

For me, I am generally in an area for a reason,, so traveling to somewhere with better weather is not an option. I have spent many a summer in Palm Desert, Death Valley, and Salvation Mountain helping my now departed friend Leonard Knight. I also spent years worth of winters in Northern Alaska. My solution is to be prepared for anything the weather might decide to do.

I don't like the choice of requiring shore power for anything. I require that my van is fully functional without it, even though I have it available via my 12v generator and a 3,000 watt inverter.

My solution is a 12v water or water/ice combo air conditioner, because sometimes I am located where it is also too humid to run an evaporative cooler (swamp cooler). For the area mentioned, a 12v swamp cooler should work just fine as well. Either version is relatively cheap and easy to make, and every bit as effective as a shore power air conditioner. We are talking under 2 amps draw @ 12VDC to beat even the hottest weather.

With all of that said and understood, if you're not tied to an area of uncomfortable weather, THEN MOVE! You should never allow yourself to be too broke to move. As a van dweller, MONEY is the easiest commodity to accumulate, and it takes up the least amount of space. As a van dweller, true freedom is spelled MONEY, and without it you are doomed to misery. On the flip side, you don't need much, because you've chosen the cheapest form of living possible short of being totally homeless and living on the streets.

 

[akrvbob]

Quartzsite to Flagstaff is 300 miles and a totally different world at 7500 feet--35 degrees cooler in the summer. No amount of money would keep me from driving 300 miles to be much more comfortable and happier. Another 100 miles will put me at 9000 feet, very cool in the summer!

I've come to love the desert in the winter, but I am not going to live without mountains and forest in the summer--they are required for me to have a good life. YMMV

If money won't allow you to travel then you do what you have to do. The reason I live on wheels is to be happy, not endure or survive. Travel does that for me.
Bob

 

[debit.servus]

If you had a job and wanted to keep it, then staying put would make you thousands, while leaving would cost you a job...

It would feel a lot better serving my San Jose, CA prison sentence if I had a job that I pulled thousands over the course of 6 months. (Only the FEDERAL RESERVE can "make" money, we have to pull it).

Are we also factoring in the cost of the A/C and Honda? No, just the cost to run them.

I'm  a desert rat and I have no interest in sitting inside a van while its 110 outside. Time to drive to Flagstaff or one of our other forests where summers are comfortable. Me neither. I need a means to DRIVE, MY VAN to CANADA for LESS THAN THE COST OF GAS.
This belongs with crazy things people do to try and save a nickle. Exactly.

...I would say that I don't understand the reasoning behind staying somewhere that is hot and then wanting to stay inside a cool box. Only a cheapskate can justify and rationalize, a reason behind staying somewhere that is hot and then wanting to stay inside a cool box. Life goes on outside the box. Exactly, I want to participate in that Life. There wasn't a quality of life factor to the question. That's not a factor for cheapskates and depravationists. The point is to exist as a science experiement with your lifes work living as cheap as monetarily possible.  

I would add that if a person could figure out a way to have free fuel and not be tied to gasoline for power then all of this would be a moot point. Free fuel is possible, it's just suppressed by the Oil Monopoly to keep us dependent on their product and keep humanity down. There is unsupressed Cheap fuel, called woodgasification. Back on topic.

Yes, money is an issue for most of us living this lifestyle, but I think it needs to be balanced against what sort of life you want to have. Agreed. I spent 61 years staying in place, so the idea of spending months in the same spot—no matter how wonderful it is—doesn't appeal to me at all. Me Neither, I've spent 21 years staying in place, so the idea of spending the rest of my life in California, no matter how temperate or desireable it is -- doesn't appeal to me right now. It would be existing, not living. And being pushed into existing by losing the van, and back to square 1 is my biggest fear. I don't like being vulnerable and being one car trouble or unplanned expense away from being set back.

The distance between, say, Quartzsite and Kalispell is the same whether I drive there in three days or over the course of three months. But it's more interesting to take my time. And whatever extra I might spend on gas by taking an indirect root is the price I'm willing to pay for a fuller life. The only reason I have took the most direct or second most direct route on my trips is the MONEY/FUEL. If I won a $5000 gas gift card, I'd spend a day loading the van and hit the road indefinitely. Fuel is the Only Thing Holding Me Back!!!

For me, I am generally in an area for a reason,, so traveling to somewhere with better weather is not an option.  I have spent  many a summer in Palm Desert, Death Valley, and Salvation Mountain helping my now departed friend Leonard Knight.  I also spent years worth of winters in Northern Alaska.  My solution is to be prepared for anything the weather might decide to do. Same here, desire to be prepared for an Alaskan Winter or Florida Summer. However there is only so much bundling up and sweating I'll willingly tolerate.

I don't like the choice of requiring shore power for anything.  I require that my van is fully functional without it, even though I have it available via my 12v generator and a 3,000 watt inverter. Do you relish the option of being able to run that genset anytime? Unlike some people; I like having options, I love having freedom, I like having always-there amenities, I like carrying a racks worth of tools even though it's costs more energy to move, I like having spares, backup, and my own private space if plans falls through.

Quartzsite to Flagstaff is 300 miles and a totally different world at 7500 feet--35 degrees cooler in the summer. No amount of money would keep me from driving 300 miles to be much more comfortable and happier. Another 100 miles will put me at 9000 feet, very cool in the summer! This thread is comparing the cost to snowbird 1600 miles vs stay in the desert and run a generator for A/C.

I've come to love the desert in the winter, but I am not going to live without mountains and forest in the summer--they are required for me to have a good life. YMMV Bob, did you force yourself to learn to love the desert and forest?

If money won't allow you to travel then you do what you have to do. The reason I live on wheels is to be happy, not endure or survive. Travel does that for me. This.

 

[SoulRaven]

I have experienced 6 summers of the desert heat and until you do, you just have no idea. If I were going to try full-timing in a van/RV there in the summer, I would have an immediate backup plan available. Also, the minute your A/C goes down, you have an emergency situation in the summer. If I had no choice, I would have to suffer through it.

The desert heat is like no other heat. Don't be fooled by "dry" heat versus "wet" heat because with dry, it is like being baked in an oven and with "wet" like being steamed. Both leave something to be desired. I love the desert but the long, hot summer was rough to endure. I also loved AK but it had the opposite with the long cold winter. Perfect would be winter in AZ and summer in AK, nothing would beat that for me. Too expensive though.

Computing the costs would be very difficult. A/C will be running pretty much constantly during the day which is long and sunny.

 

[gcal]

Say Vandweller A has a 10 MPG van, and lives in Quartzsite during the winter. Vandweller A desires to be in a different biome in Montana or Alberta CANADA to beat the Quartzsite heat 6 months out of the year. He travels 800 miles north for the summer and travels 800 miles back to Quartzsite for the winter. Because he enjoys warm days and cool nights in the summer, he doesn't need A/C.

Vandweller B is poor, a deprevationist or doesn't desire to ever be in a non-desert biome. He stays put in Quartzsite and rents a spot with pay-as-you-go electricity rate. Vandweller B has sufficient electric A/C to bring the van down to 72 F. The cost of renting a spot is a variable, so well say $150 per month for a suburban driveway space NOT including electricity. I don't know what the cost per KWH is in Quartzsite so people who live there fill me in.

To make this fair, we will not compare Vandweller B and introduce you to Vandweller C. Vandweller C stays put and spends  the summer outside of Quartzsite, He runs his A/C from an ulta-quiet, ultra-efficient holy HONDA generator. He runs it for at least 8 hours a day or whenever the outside temperature prohibits evaporative cooling because he wants to be comfortable in a 72 degree van. Vandweller C thinks he is saving the big bucks not snowbirding, even with the generator burning gas at least 8 hours a day for those six months out of the year. So factor the fuel-per-hour to run a 8000 BTU AC using average summer temperature in Quartzsite with a 15% cushion increase for potential upward heat fluctuation. Vandweller Cs life radius is less than 50 miles if that helps with the cost calculation.

Vandweller A & C have identical regular top, regular cab vans that get 10 MPG highway. They both have decent insulation, and ventalation. Trying to remove variables here...

So who is cheaper, Vandweller A or Vandweller C? We are only comparing the costs to keep cool and comfortable between Vandweller A & C. I believe that it's cheaper to snowbird 1600 miles than to stay put in the Southwest summer. I believe it's cheaper due to the high cost of A/C during peak grid hours and peak heat, and even higher cost from a gasoline generator. This comes down to who burns more gallons of gas? Gas in this hypothetical comparision is $3 a gallon.

Once we have throughly answered this question we can move the discussion more broadly. I get to decide when we broaden the topic.

You are trying to remove variables which cannot be removed. You cannot get any kind of accuracy without estimating vehicle and generator repair and maintenance. You cannot get accuracy without estimating how often you will have  drive into town for food, water and fuel in Quartzite as opposed to possibly being able to bicycle or walk or use public transportation from the driveway, and possibly use an outside faucet. If you need other things, such as wifi for business or handling your banking, what will you pay for your own plan in Quartzite as opposed to  being able to use Barnes and Noble or MacDonalds in town? Will you be allowed to use the laundry facilities from the driveway as opposed to using a laundromat or a bucket and clothes line? What will happen to your insurance, both medical and vehicle, with each option? 

Each choice either causes or avoids other expenses and cannot be compared without taking them into consideration.  You have more work to do than you have done to compare your options or to get advice from anyone else on your options.

 

[debit.servus]

I have experienced 6 summers of the desert heat and until you do, you just have no idea. I was for a week and a half in Las Vegas in the second half of June for EDC, I have some idea. 11,000 BTUs of A/C only got the van down to a comfortable level, after an hour! If I were going to try full-timing in a van/RV there in the summer, I would have an immediate backup plan available. (Begin sarcasm) I don't need a backup plan, besides it's an adventure! Also, the minute your A/C goes down, you have an emergency situation in the summer. I have my spray bottle and fan to suffice! If I had no choice, I would have to suffer through it. Isn't this the key to a full, rich life??????

The desert heat is like no other heat.  Don't be fooled by "dry" heat versus "wet" heat because with dry, it is like being baked in an oven and with "wet" like being steamed.  Both leave something to be desired.  I love the desert but the long, hot summer was rough to endure. But if it saves  a few dollars vs snowbirding it's worth it (end sarcasm)! I also loved AK but it had the opposite with the long cold winter.  Perfect would be winter in AZ and summer in AK, nothing would beat that for me.  Too expensive though. Get runnin' on wood Sir, then you can move 4000 miles twice a year for less than 10 tanks of gas (money AND time cost).

Computing the costs would be very difficult.  A/C will be running pretty much constantly during the day which is long and sunny.

But we need to compute the costs. The legion of vandwellers depends on it!

You are trying to remove variables which cannot be removed. You cannot get any kind of accuracy without estimating vehicle and generator repair and maintenance. You cannot get accuracy without estimating how often you will have  drive into town for food, water and fuel in Quartzite as opposed to possibly being able to bicycle or walk or use public transportation from the driveway, and possibly use an outside faucet. If you need other things, such as wifi for business or handling your banking, what will you pay for your own plan in Quartzite as opposed to  being able to use Barnes and Noble or MacDonalds in town? Will you be allowed to use the laundry facilities from the driveway as opposed to using a laundromat or a bucket and clothes line? What will happen to your insurance, both medical and vehicle, with each option? 

Each choice either causes or avoids other expenses and cannot be compared without taking them into consideration.  You have more work to do than you have done to compare your options or to get advice from anyone else on your options.

Lets make it simpler then. Snowbirding 787 miles From Phoenix, AZ to Virginia, ID (You can pretend you're in Virginia state in Virginia, ID and be a good little ecoslave not travelling 2200 miles to Virginia state) http://www.distancebetweencities.net/phoenix_az_and_virginia_id/route.
(note on this website they calculate co2 "emmissions") Lets factor in the cost of van and genset repair, and lets keep necesseties and insurances equal (Both vandweller A & C have identical cravings and health). Who is cheaper?

A little scene I wrote up:
Scene: a shabby Class A in a phoenix residential driveway of his parents he takes care in exchange for hookups.
Reluctant spouse("RS"): It's may and the days are getting hotter! When will we snowbird North?
Cheapskate Depravationist husband with over $200,000 in the bank ("CH"): I am calculating the cost of snowbirding north to Virginia, ID on the computer to staying put.
RS: I'll pay for the gas!
CH: If it costs us $0.01 more to snowbird to Idaho based on my extensive internet research and spreadsheet calculations, we aren't leaving Phoenix honey.
RS: Ridiculous...
CH: According to my calculation it will cost us $3.372 more to snowbird to Virginia, ID compared to staying put. So get a sunhat and enjoy the Phoenix sunshine!
(One hour-long heated augument later)
RS: YOU ARE, NOT!!!! MY HUSBAND ANYMORE. I've hhhhaaaaddddd it with your penny-pinCHING. Two YEARS I thought it was a good life!!! TWO YEARS!!!!!
(10 minutes of RS ranting and raving at CH)
I'm packing my bags, and you can spend the rest of your life cherishing your saved pennies!!!

 

[SoulRaven]

For one of the RV parks, it says electricity is .17 per kwh. That is actually what we were paying in the 90s in Marana, AZ for electric in the RV park section, a commercial rate. In the front section, for mobile homes, the rate was .10 per kwh and that does make a difference especially since the A/C runs almost constantly in an RV in the summer. When we arrived in September in Marana, in a class C motorhome, the heat of the day was nearly unbearable even with the A/C running all the time. I imagine the temp with A/C running all the time during the day inside the RV was probably in the 80s. Within two weeks, we were in a used doublewide with a swamp cooler, pure heaven at that point.

Setting up in a city in someone's driveway won't necessarily be a choice. Many cities won't even allow you to park your own RV on your property for storage. Out in the counties, it is more likely possible.

For me, I cannot isolate the cost of living versus comfort when there is a choice. I have been in some pretty unbearable situations, had to read the electric meter every day to see if we could afford to operate the tv and lights in the evening and it is no way to live if you can avoid it.

I saw a lot of people end up homeless that came out to southern AZ for the "weather". Computing cost on relocation has so many variables. Of course, if you have a large emergency fund, that gives you a lot more freedom in your choices. Always have a backup plan so if Plan A doesn't work, you can move to Plan B.

 

[Rugster]

It would feel a lot better serving my San Jose, CA prison sentence if I had a job that I pulled thousands over the course of 6 months. (Only the FEDERAL RESERVE can "make" money, we have to pull it).

Ok, I am completely confused. How many thousands do you need over six months? Go to McDonalds, I have never seen one that was not hiring. They pay 9 dollars an hour here. Work 40 hours per week, that's $360 before taxes. I would imagine you would take home at least $250 per week, so $1000 per month. You have stated you live at home and your Parents pay the bills. So you should be able to save $750 per month.

Six months later you will have saved $4500 and you are then free to do what you want to do.
are you unable to work a normal low wage, entry level (or dead end) job? You constantly say you can't afford gas to leave but based on what you asked for, in six months, you could easily have $4000 saved so I'm not sure exactly what is holding you back. I may have missed your reasoning as to be honest, your style of posting with multiple quotes and bold quotes can get a little convoluted. Or I may have simply missed a post where you stated why it is not possible for you to get a job that is typical for people in their teens and early twenties.

 

[akrvbob]

This thread is closed.
Bob