When is rig too old for mechanics while on the road?

[GypsyDogs]

a Mechanic can fix just about anything.. a PartsChanger..? not so much.

I got a rig with a carburetor by Choice.. That I have a good chance of fixing. Fuel Injection?? hell no.
And it has a Mechanical Fuel pump.. about $25-30 and easy to change.. try that with an electronic one built into the tank.. ha!

 

[caretaker]

I'm thinking i would prefer a computer controlled throttle body because they handle changes in altitude better, is that correct?

 

[Ballenxj]

I'm thinking i would prefer a computer controlled throttle body because they handle changes in altitude better, is that correct?

I think having Throttle Body together with the H.E.I. (high energy ignition) would be a great combo. Here are a couple articles I dug up about that combination.
http://chevythunder.com/gm_throttle_body_injection_pg_1.htm
and
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=69362

 

[highdesertranger]

yes it is correct. until one of your sensors goes out(which it will) then you are lucky if it runs at all. highdesertranger

 

[Trebor English]

I'm thinking i would prefer a computer controlled throttle body because they handle changes in altitude better, is that correct?

The venturi senses the mass of the air flowing through it.  That is always changing with temperature, altitude, air filter pluggage, throttle position and anything else.  The venturi generates a very small pressure difference that causes gasoline to be pushed through the calibrated size hole, the main jet.

Like the electronic mass air flow sensor, the venturi doesn't sense oxygen content, just mass.  If it is very humid the same mass carries less O2.  The computer, looking at the exhaust, can make fine adjustments when closed loop that a carburetor can't.  The computer and all the sensors can make the engine more fuel efficient, higher max power, smoother running, easier starting, boosting idle speed under power steering and AC load, and on and on.  If something goes wrong it is possibly not diagnoseable without a factory blessed  computer.  A carburetor can be overhauled using only a few small wrenches, screwdrivers, and fancy pliers for fancy clips.

New, high tech high performance or old with many fewer failure modes, your choice.

 

[jonsun]

the tricky stuff with carbed systems comes in with the vaccum and the rats nest of hoses. it does the same thing as a modern vehicle but mechanically instead of digitally.

all of that can be eliminated. the whole EGR system. you're left with a couple continuous vacuum lines to your vents and brake booster. and if you keep the catalytic converter you wont stink to high heaven.

and for $1000 any carbed vehicle can be converted to a brand new fuel injection system. it's a throttle body kit and an electric fuel pump. any old chevy can have an LS (97+) system adapted to it with bolt on parts. i.e. newer transmission will fit onto older engines without much trouble. so if it goes out and you cant find a turbo 350/400/700r4, which is highly unlikely, you can purchase a used late model LS based trans and an adapter. or for really cheap you can find a junkyard late 80's/early 90's throttle body system.

furthermore, with an EGR delete on a 80's van to clean the engine up you can buy a broadband standalone O2 sensor to tune the carb yourself. it comes with instructions.

with it all simplified when it breaks down you have either a fuel or a spark problem. you check the spark, you check the rough timing by looking at the distributor. if you haven't figured it out, then its a fuel issue. spray some starting fluid/brake cleaner down the carb and start it. if it starts and stops you probably have a clogged filter and you should carry a spare so swap it out right there.

 

[AntiGroundhogDay]

Can we move the conversation towards "will and old or newer vehicle give you more warning until you are stranded?" I don't ~really~ enjoy working on vehicles, but as a frugal minded person I will change oil, suspension, brakes. Other than that...meh. So if I am willing to pay a mechanic (putting aside the ability to find one who can work on old or new vehicles), do you think an older vehicle gives you more warning before it will leave you stranded (rough idle, I don't freaking know) vs. a newer vehicle (throws a code)?

Also, do certain do folks preference for older vehicle center around fuel delivery? What about the rest of the drive train like the transmission... is older still your preference? I figure it is more difficult to DIY transmission work regardless of the age of the vehicle.

Thanks.

 

[highdesertranger]

for dependability I like a manual transmission. here's my take on dependability, if a part is not there it will not fail, if there is a part there it will eventually fail. all this computer control stuff makes a vehicle run great under all conditions but as soon as you loose one part of the complex system that goes out the window and the vehicle runs bad if at all. todays modern computer controlled vehicles have dozens of failure points an older vehicle only a few. for me depending on the make of the vehicle once you hit the 10-15 year old mark on the computer systems that's when you start having problems and you are more likely to be left stranded. also when you do have a problem you need a lot more specialized tools to diagnose and fix the problem. highdesertranger

 

[steamjam1]

There are some warning signs that are universal no matter if your rig is newer, or older. Such as alternator bearings, water pump clunks, U joint crunchiness, rod bearing noises, rear end whinning, cracked flexplates, etc etc etc. To me its not a matter of getting warned about a breakdown, instead its all about how fast you either fix the problem, or rig it to work long enough to get to the nearest town, or repair shop.

Don't get me wrong, I love my fuel injected Ford RV-van. (1986) Its super reliable, gets decent gas mileage, and drivability is better then my old carbureted Dodge. Yeah there are more bits and pieces to the Ford, like o2, MAF, TPS, coolant sensor, in-tank fuel pumps, main pump, a computer, etc etc. However I have learned over the years to routinely replace these parts before they start going wonky. It assures I won't be stuck in the desert without cell phone signal.

At the same time I kinda miss the overall simplicity of my old Dodge. (1978) There was nothing I could not fix using only basic hand tools. All you old-schoolers know what I mean... "Ah crap. I got a leak in my carb base gasket, or whatever... OK what do I have? Oh a box of 'Capt. Crunch' cereal thats nearly empty, a pencil, and a leatherman.. I'm good to go!"

The same thing goes for transmissions. If I want something thats nearly bullet proof if you take certain precautions, like fluid coolers, and regular, scheduled adjustments... An older three speed automatic is the way to go.

 

[djkeev]

Older vehicles are only better when one takes into account simplicity of repair.

My Dad bought a 56 Chevy Station Wagon brand new.
It was a great car and when that unit rolled over 100,000 miles he about threw a block party because the engine was never torn down!

He had a 63 Rambler Wagon..... POS it was..... 66 Impala..... 68 Chevelle.....70 Malibu..... all purchased new, none of them went to the 100,000 mile mark trouble free.

Fast forward to today, pick ANY random manufacturer here in the USA.
If that unit does NOT deliver 100,000 trouble free miles we are pissed!
Cars run so much longer, so much cleaner, get far better fuel mileage with far fewer troubles and require far fewer mechanics than ever before in Automotive history!

Sure IF they fail, it often does require a computer. But hey! I carry one in my pocket everywhere I go! My phone!
I can get a bung for my phone that plugs into my OBDII port, use an App and my car can tell me what ails it.

Now with modern next day shipping, I can have that part in my hand often in less than 24 hours.

My newer car is also safer and I have a MUCH greater chance of walking away from an accident instead of being in a body bag.

I say all of this but I have a 69 Karmann Ghia and an 86 VW Vanagon.
I also have my modern DD but trips have been in the Van.

Think for a second...... how many times have you ever been dead nuts stranded on a roadside due to a mechanical problem?
I reckon most of us haven't been.

Dave

 

[Bud Smiley]

A parable....

My friend and I argue about which is better for motorcycle trips: belt drive or chain drive. I like chains because I can easily repair it in the field. My friend prefers belts because they last longer and don't require the maintenance that a chain does. But if a belt fails, it has to be replaced; it can't be repaired.

We have different priorities. Each option has pros/cons and it's up to you to decide what is more important to you.

 

[GypsyDogs]

I once fixed a 1964 VW bug (in a parking lot..) with my basic tool kit, a soda can, and 2 paper clips.

God, I miss that car..

 

[eDJ_]

Having spent much of my youth working on mine and my friends old jalopymobiles,  it was refreshing to get my hands on my first new car.  One where I was the only one to ever own it or touch a wrench to it.   It can spoil you and in time you lose your edge at working on a car.  Mechanical skills are like anything else,  you use it or lose it. 

One Garage owner I once spoke with told me that he didn't want any cars in his shop that were older than 5 years.   If he got stuck with such a job he explained the job would go on "Time & Parts/materials" prepaid. (that he said usually ran that type of trade off).   He was very clear about being in business "not to lose money" and he didn't want his place being seen as "community work shop".  (meaning running a charity and impoverishing himself and his mechanical staff)  Otherwise they would find better paying jobs elsewhere and he would go out of business.

This is one of the things that tempers my judgement about telling random people about "Cheap RV Living".  That they don't get the bright idea to find some old wreck of a Van and head down the road in it bumming mechanical service at every garage that they pass.   Or getting something ready for the Junk Yard and heading out to find men at meetups to "rebuild" it for her.  LOL  (they do the work and buy the parts too)   So I refrain from mentioning it to just anyone as I wouldn't want to be on the road with a mess I created.

If done right it can be inexpensive RV living but it shouldn't be free living in a junk RV.  

I used to wonder when I was a kid at the attitudes of some of the garage & gas station people I was around.
But they have to quickly determine or qualify the situation & vehicle before them.   I've seen mechanics get into jobs where the vehicle is so rusted bolts break off or parts that they have to remove to get at the problem break and the customer doesn't feel he/she should have to pay for it.  This is why the "time and parts/materials" clause in a work order.   Many a young mechanic can find himself in this and it's like being in Quick Sand.   He isn't likely to make that same mistake again.   Then he learns to judge the customers as to what they are angling for.  

I've seen this same thing happen in Computer Repair shops too.  

If you can't work on your own vehicle, you should try to be in as late of model as you can.  But sooner or later you are going to need service/repair.    And it is going to cost.

 

[caretaker]

e, i hear what your saying, but why would anybody with a car thats still under warranty take their car to him when they can take it to a dealership? arnt most cars covered under 5 yr warranty? i know their are some situations where a veh. will have less but thats a small slice. not trying to be judgmental, just curious.

 

[caretaker]

e, i should have added that the mechanic i used only took people who had good references, and he had a waiting list. it was just him and his son, and they won't expand because they can't find good people, and are tired of trying. they don't have a sign on the bldg. and (you will love this) they have an unlisted ph. number

 

[eDJ_]

Yes, provided people have such vehicles with the means (dealership warranty or third party extended warranty).  I really don't know what the members of this board have exactly.   Many are looking for rigs that may have been written off the books after 5 years at businesses.   

When I first came here many of us were reading Bob's story about seeing an old Box Van on a Car Lot and wondering if he could live in it.   Far from what he drives now.   So it is that many of those who follow in his example will be enticed to try doing the same.   Start out with something old...work camp....scrounge while hunting for something better.   Still, unless they find decent paying jobs it is rather unlikely that they will be shopping for new.  (I state this as my opinion given the cost of new equipment today)

And I know a lot of people who just aren't satisfied with Dealership service.  Often the "GOOD" mechanics quit and go start their own Garage.  They feel they are too valuable to work on a 60/40 split where the Dealer gets
60% of the $90 dollars an hour that they charge.   They know that they can work independent and make $65 just as easily often picking the jobs that they want to do.   Dealerships often wind up with "lesser" mechanics because if this and all too often get assigned jobs that are beyond their ratings.   

I used to live near this one German fellow who was with VW/Porsche/Audi.  He told me as a DM that many of the dealers wanted to send young mechanics to A/C school after only 2 mechanical training courses there.
He said there were 5 required courses before they could go to A/C school.  But the Dealer argued he could make more money on them if they could do A/C.  These are the kids of issues you get into with Dealerships, and why a lot of people would rather have their own "Family Mechanic" whom they can trust.

Enter the extended warranty insurance policy.  If you can get one from a Dealership on their model of vehicle you are better off.   Third Party policies can be rather questionable. 

As you state that you have a Mechanic that you support, there are many people who have learned to do this.
Many such shops are Father/Son's and in some cases daughters.   They can work from their home/garage and not need to advertise.  A following will be generated who believes in their work and will have a family like rapport.   They trust that they will be taken care of fairly and charged realistically.  Prices only raise when demand becomes too great.  

Where I've operated my own running repair garage when in school,  I would have drunks calling at 2 am on Sunday morning wanting me to come out because they left their head lights on and other such fun and games.   I've been there.   I once was called by this one drunk's friends who put him in the back seat of his car so he couldn't get on the road and kill himself or someone else.  When I got there  he was arguing that someone stole the steering wheel from his car.   I could only think how lucky he was to have drinking buddies of that quality.    

Your mechanic friend sounds like a friend of mine a few miles down the road.  Operates out of the Garage out back of his home.   Just takes people by references or referral.  (and is choosy)   His wife works in a job where she can check people out when he gives her their name, address, and phone number.  If they wash clean he may call them when things get slow and offer to take a look and evaluate if it should they want to establish an account with him.  Your mechanic sounds like he's been there too.   I generally do my own work still but have a fellow I would go to who is better equipped for larger scale work.  (such as pulling an Auto Transmission for me so I can put it in my Van and take it to the absolute best AutoTrans Rebuild shop in the area and that 25 miles away. (even the AutoTrans shops in the area will take one that has them stumped to them and they always get it right).  Then I go get the Trans and take it back to get it reinstalled.  

Right now there is a Kia Dealer in my area who is offering a 20 year 200,000 mile warranty through his Dealership.  The Guy is totally sales oriented.  I figure he's betting the original owners won't keep the car much more than the statistical average. (which would void that warranty). 

But there is a reason such warranties are being offered today.  Sales Statistics in this economy.

America's Top 25 least wanted cars.  This may really surprise you.  Note the number of sales on some of  these per month.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/e0e973b6-3a94-3577-b792-3110c397f80c/america’s-least-wanted:-25.html