Whelp... Pretty sure that's the engine blown...
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Had a quote for $4,700 to put a new Jasper engine in it. This guy claims Jasper cites a difference between the 5.9 for the regular 3500 van and the motorhome and suggests a junkyard engine might not be a direct replacement. So it'd have a 3 year warranty and that's better than the $5,800 quote... Maybe I should do it... Van only has 92,000 miles on it...
Canine
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You are too late on the van.I went down and looked and bought it myself for $3700.Very clean inside and out and only 122000 miles.Anybody want to buy a truck with a probably bad trans?
SternWake
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I am not an engine swap king by any standard. The 5.9 magnum could have a different cam profile on a truck vs Van, I do not know.
But what would suck, is to have to get a engine computer too just so the AF/ spark and fuel timing match the engine if it does not like the different cam profile. If there is a different cam profile.
While I had my Engine rebuilt, which took them about 10 days and cost 2800$ 11 years ago, I do not have incredible faith in their work. They actually reused my roller cam and put new roller lifters on it, and used steel freeze plugs instead of brass. I've replaced 4 freeze plugs and the camshaft and lifters myself.
Anyway at least rebuilding your own engine means no possible computer issues, or having to have it reflashed.
What did the mechanics with a stethoscope say? other than that you need a new engine.
Spun bearings, broken rod, cracked block? Could be time for a second opinion if all they said was you need a new engine.
But what would suck, is to have to get a engine computer too just so the AF/ spark and fuel timing match the engine if it does not like the different cam profile. If there is a different cam profile.
While I had my Engine rebuilt, which took them about 10 days and cost 2800$ 11 years ago, I do not have incredible faith in their work. They actually reused my roller cam and put new roller lifters on it, and used steel freeze plugs instead of brass. I've replaced 4 freeze plugs and the camshaft and lifters myself.
Anyway at least rebuilding your own engine means no possible computer issues, or having to have it reflashed.
What did the mechanics with a stethoscope say? other than that you need a new engine.
Spun bearings, broken rod, cracked block? Could be time for a second opinion if all they said was you need a new engine.
The mechanics with the stethoscope said only that there are metal shavings in the oil and there's no compression. The metal shavings I noticed on the dipstick before bringing it to them so I was already aware. They listened around with the stethoscope quite a bit but did not tell me anything diagnostically relevant from that.
No holes in the block... I looked at it but I'm not an engine mechanic... It will putter around and drive some in its current condition but it sounds like shit and power cuts in and out. Probably won't move more than a few miles (to whatever repair shop I choose for Monday).
I'm leaning towards the $4,700 for a new Jasper engine. That guy seemed to know what he was talking about. I could ask him for a second opinion before ordering the replacement engine.
No holes in the block... I looked at it but I'm not an engine mechanic... It will putter around and drive some in its current condition but it sounds like shit and power cuts in and out. Probably won't move more than a few miles (to whatever repair shop I choose for Monday).
I'm leaning towards the $4,700 for a new Jasper engine. That guy seemed to know what he was talking about. I could ask him for a second opinion before ordering the replacement engine.
SternWake
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Yikes, if enough metal is present so that some sticks to the dipstick, something internal is thrashed.
If there was zero compression, you could not drive it at all.
Hope you get is sorted out. Let us know how you proceed, and if any obvious failure points show themselves on extraction.
If there was zero compression, you could not drive it at all.
Hope you get is sorted out. Let us know how you proceed, and if any obvious failure points show themselves on extraction.
ramblingvanman
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They only used a stethoscope? How do they know what your compression is or isn't? They need to do either a compression test or a cylinder leak down test. If I were you, I would seriously consider going somewhere else if at all possible. I know some people in Norfolk/Va Beach. I can make some calls for you if you want.
ramblingvanman said:
I can't say they *only* used the stethoscope as I didn't watch them the entire time... they had it for two hours and were at it from in the hood, underneath on a crawler, and inside the cab behind the cowl...
Right now I'm planning to take it to this other chap that seemed to know his stuff with Jasper engines, and ask him for his opinion before I agree to the replacement. If you think you know a mechanic with a good ear that could give me a different diagnosis I wouldn't turn down the tip, but to be honest I'm thinking it does need a new engine. Partially because:
SternWake said:
Yeah, that's why I saved the first wipe I took off the dipstick before taking it to the mechanic.
Hard to see in the picture but to the eye if you hold it up in the light and move it around a bit little shiny specs of metal sparkle all over like glitter... can kinda see it in the close up. Also I changed the oil about 3k miles ago so it shouldn't be this dark either.
Tip: Right-click and say "view image" to see the original size image.
SternWake
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Oil color means little. It could be argued to use a non detergent oil, as since it will not clean, nor suspend byproducts of combustion, it will remain a light amber color.
When the oil darkens fairly quickly after an oil change it means the oil is cleaning varnish and breaking down sludge, and color has little meaning in terma of lubricating properties remaining.
Unless it smells burnt.
Burnt smelling and sparklies and its time to rebuild/replace.
Change the oil on a diesel engine and the dipstick is black instantly It hardly means the oil is shot.
Oil color means little
When the oil darkens fairly quickly after an oil change it means the oil is cleaning varnish and breaking down sludge, and color has little meaning in terma of lubricating properties remaining.
Unless it smells burnt.
Burnt smelling and sparklies and its time to rebuild/replace.
Change the oil on a diesel engine and the dipstick is black instantly It hardly means the oil is shot.
Oil color means little
Optimistic Paranoid
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In this particular context, sparklies do NOT mean that things are shiny.
Regards
John
Regards
John
T.he I.nvisible M.an
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If you were closer I could do it for you.
Thing is all you need to find is a 10 x 30 mini storage as a place to pull the motor.
CubeSmart has certain locations that the 1st month is FREE. They don't ask for a credit card or a deposit. You go month to month and if you find the 1st month free location that has a 10x30 you PAY at the END of the 1st month (or move out). So really you might say you have 30 days (plus a few more for grace period actually) to fix your Van.
And now you know ...
T.I.M.
Thing is all you need to find is a 10 x 30 mini storage as a place to pull the motor.
CubeSmart has certain locations that the 1st month is FREE. They don't ask for a credit card or a deposit. You go month to month and if you find the 1st month free location that has a 10x30 you PAY at the END of the 1st month (or move out). So really you might say you have 30 days (plus a few more for grace period actually) to fix your Van.
And now you know ...
T.I.M.
T.he I.nvisible M.an
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T.he I.nvisible M.an said:
Forgot to mention that you can BUY new a 2 ton folding engine hoist for about 200 to 400 bux. (less if you find one on CL)
T.he I.nvisible M.an
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TMG51
You have to compare blue book value of your ride to anything you do as far as repairing it goes. Many times (especially if you find a great deal) it's cheaper (and easier) to buy a whole vehicle. Also to fully assess your motor it needs to be pulled then torn down to get an idea what is damaged and how much it will cost. Parts for a partial rebuild might only cost 250 to 500. Parts for a full rebuilt probably start around 500 to 650 for a very plain vanilla kit and would range (for something not too heavy duty or "racy") 750 to 1500. Of course if you are planning to race something 1500 would be on the low end of a rebuild for parts as you might be buying all new components (and higher end at that). Labor would be up to what ever mechanic you can find and the machining can't really be determined until the motor is torn down.
Maybe you get one of the forum GearHeads to drive to where you are and help you out ...
The following is pretty much spot on (Credit Arts Automotive)
<b>Thinking about rebuilding your engine? Here’s some information that could help you to make good choices.</b>
Why would I rebuild my engine?
The usual reasons for rebuilding an engine are loss of compression, excessive oil consumption, or excessive oil clearances. The symptoms of loss of compression are extended cranking (hard to start), lack of power, or a misfire (running rough). All of these symptoms can be caused by lack of compression, but they can also be caused by other things, so before the engine is rebuilt it should be diagnosed by performing a compression or leak down test.
Oil consumption is the loss of motor oil even though there are no significant external oil leaks. It can be caused by worn valve guides, dried valve guide seals, stuck oil control rings, or excessive cylinder to piston clearance. It also can be caused by a very inexpensive PCV valve. So try replacing this first before condemning the engine.
The most common symptom of excessive oil clearances is an awful knock coming from the engine. Low oil pressure is also a symptom of excessive oil clearances but is less common (by the time the oil pressure goes low there’s usually an engine knock evident). Engine knock can be caused by worn rod bearings, main bearings, piston pins, pistons, and cam bearings. Sometimes some types of engine knock can be repaired with the engine in the car. The engine must be partially disassembled to know for sure.
Is it worth it to rebuild or repair my engine?
Most of the time it comes down to a personal choice. There is no good formulaic solution to the question. There are cases where it’s an easy decision. If the car is 20 years old with 300,000 miles on it and is falling apart at the seams then it’s pretty obvious it makes no sense to fix it. If the car is 5 years old and in good shape it’s definitely worth fixing. Most of the cars that need engines fall somewhere in-between. Our best advise is to have a full vehicle inspection done before having the engine repaired, then consider the total projected cost of the engine plus any needed maintenance and repairs. Consider whether you like your car or not and the cost of buying a new or used car you would like. Keep in mind that there is some uncertainty in buying a used car even if you have it inspected. Remember to include financing costs and full coverage insurance when thinking about a new car. In some cases it is worth doing repairs to a car in excess of its bluebook value.
So my car will be like new, right?
Nope. The car is much more than just the engine. There’s steering, suspension, transmission, brakes, tires, axles, fuel injection, smog equipment, and a lot more. A car with a rebuilt engine will still run poorly with bad ignition wire, and still fail smog with a bad O2 sensor, and still overheat with a bad radiator
.
What are the different ways of repairing the engine?
The least expensive is a ring and valve job. This is done for a engine that has lost compression in one or more cylinders or is burning oil. A ring and valve job is done with the engine block in the car. It includes removing the head and rebuilding it, removing the pistons and re-ringing them, honing the cylinder walls if needed and replacing the rod bearings. The philosophy is to repair the engine as needed. Parts that are still good are not replaced. For instance, if the valve guide diameter is still within manufacturers specification, then they are not replaced. You pay for what you get, so if your engine is less damaged then it costs less. Usually you will be quoted for the basic job and after inspection of the components you will get a call back with a more accurate estimate. A ring and valve job can not be done if the cylinder walls are worn beyond specification, the crank is worn, or the deck surface is warped or irregular. These are things that can not be inspected until the engine is taken apart.
The next option is an in-house rebuild. This repair can fix pretty much any engine problem. Often this type of rebuild starts out as a ring and valve job where worn cylinder walls were found, requiring boring. For this repair the engine block is removed from the car. It includes rebuilding the head, boring the cylinders oversized and new pistons, new timing components, decking the block, replacing the rod and main bearings, replacing the freeze plugs, and other repairs as necessary. The philosophy is to repair the engine as needed. For instance, if the crank journals do not need to be ground undersized, then they aren’t. You pay for what you get so if your engine is less damaged you pay less. Usually you will be quoted for the basic job and after inspection of the components you will get a call back with a more accurate estimate.
The third and most expensive way repair the engine is a rebuilt exchange. The philosophy is to repair everything whether it is needed or not. For instance, a crank in usable condition would be ground undersize anyway.
How do I break in the rebuilt engine?
Vary the engine speed and load. Don’t use over 75% throttle. Don’t go over 75% of the maximum RPM. Don’t use synthetic oil. Don’t let the engine idle for extended periods. Don’t cruise on the freeway at the same speed for extended periods. It should only take about 500 miles to break an engine in. After that change the oil and do what you want. Believe it or not, how you break your engine in can make a huge difference in how long your rebuilt engine lasts and how much oil it uses. You should also be aware that the rebuilt engine will burn more oil as it is breaking in, so check the oil frequently.
Why did the engine go bad in the first place?
This is important to consider. If the engine overheated due to a partially clogged radiator and a new engine is installed without addressing this, the new engine will surely fail too. If your maintenance was spotty and you don’t change your habits, then the new engine will fail as well. There usually is a correctable reason for engine failure.
And now you know ...
T.I.M.
You have to compare blue book value of your ride to anything you do as far as repairing it goes. Many times (especially if you find a great deal) it's cheaper (and easier) to buy a whole vehicle. Also to fully assess your motor it needs to be pulled then torn down to get an idea what is damaged and how much it will cost. Parts for a partial rebuild might only cost 250 to 500. Parts for a full rebuilt probably start around 500 to 650 for a very plain vanilla kit and would range (for something not too heavy duty or "racy") 750 to 1500. Of course if you are planning to race something 1500 would be on the low end of a rebuild for parts as you might be buying all new components (and higher end at that). Labor would be up to what ever mechanic you can find and the machining can't really be determined until the motor is torn down.
Maybe you get one of the forum GearHeads to drive to where you are and help you out ...
The following is pretty much spot on (Credit Arts Automotive)
<b>Thinking about rebuilding your engine? Here’s some information that could help you to make good choices.</b>
Why would I rebuild my engine?
The usual reasons for rebuilding an engine are loss of compression, excessive oil consumption, or excessive oil clearances. The symptoms of loss of compression are extended cranking (hard to start), lack of power, or a misfire (running rough). All of these symptoms can be caused by lack of compression, but they can also be caused by other things, so before the engine is rebuilt it should be diagnosed by performing a compression or leak down test.
Oil consumption is the loss of motor oil even though there are no significant external oil leaks. It can be caused by worn valve guides, dried valve guide seals, stuck oil control rings, or excessive cylinder to piston clearance. It also can be caused by a very inexpensive PCV valve. So try replacing this first before condemning the engine.
The most common symptom of excessive oil clearances is an awful knock coming from the engine. Low oil pressure is also a symptom of excessive oil clearances but is less common (by the time the oil pressure goes low there’s usually an engine knock evident). Engine knock can be caused by worn rod bearings, main bearings, piston pins, pistons, and cam bearings. Sometimes some types of engine knock can be repaired with the engine in the car. The engine must be partially disassembled to know for sure.
Is it worth it to rebuild or repair my engine?
Most of the time it comes down to a personal choice. There is no good formulaic solution to the question. There are cases where it’s an easy decision. If the car is 20 years old with 300,000 miles on it and is falling apart at the seams then it’s pretty obvious it makes no sense to fix it. If the car is 5 years old and in good shape it’s definitely worth fixing. Most of the cars that need engines fall somewhere in-between. Our best advise is to have a full vehicle inspection done before having the engine repaired, then consider the total projected cost of the engine plus any needed maintenance and repairs. Consider whether you like your car or not and the cost of buying a new or used car you would like. Keep in mind that there is some uncertainty in buying a used car even if you have it inspected. Remember to include financing costs and full coverage insurance when thinking about a new car. In some cases it is worth doing repairs to a car in excess of its bluebook value.
So my car will be like new, right?
Nope. The car is much more than just the engine. There’s steering, suspension, transmission, brakes, tires, axles, fuel injection, smog equipment, and a lot more. A car with a rebuilt engine will still run poorly with bad ignition wire, and still fail smog with a bad O2 sensor, and still overheat with a bad radiator
.
What are the different ways of repairing the engine?
The least expensive is a ring and valve job. This is done for a engine that has lost compression in one or more cylinders or is burning oil. A ring and valve job is done with the engine block in the car. It includes removing the head and rebuilding it, removing the pistons and re-ringing them, honing the cylinder walls if needed and replacing the rod bearings. The philosophy is to repair the engine as needed. Parts that are still good are not replaced. For instance, if the valve guide diameter is still within manufacturers specification, then they are not replaced. You pay for what you get, so if your engine is less damaged then it costs less. Usually you will be quoted for the basic job and after inspection of the components you will get a call back with a more accurate estimate. A ring and valve job can not be done if the cylinder walls are worn beyond specification, the crank is worn, or the deck surface is warped or irregular. These are things that can not be inspected until the engine is taken apart.
The next option is an in-house rebuild. This repair can fix pretty much any engine problem. Often this type of rebuild starts out as a ring and valve job where worn cylinder walls were found, requiring boring. For this repair the engine block is removed from the car. It includes rebuilding the head, boring the cylinders oversized and new pistons, new timing components, decking the block, replacing the rod and main bearings, replacing the freeze plugs, and other repairs as necessary. The philosophy is to repair the engine as needed. For instance, if the crank journals do not need to be ground undersized, then they aren’t. You pay for what you get so if your engine is less damaged you pay less. Usually you will be quoted for the basic job and after inspection of the components you will get a call back with a more accurate estimate.
The third and most expensive way repair the engine is a rebuilt exchange. The philosophy is to repair everything whether it is needed or not. For instance, a crank in usable condition would be ground undersize anyway.
How do I break in the rebuilt engine?
Vary the engine speed and load. Don’t use over 75% throttle. Don’t go over 75% of the maximum RPM. Don’t use synthetic oil. Don’t let the engine idle for extended periods. Don’t cruise on the freeway at the same speed for extended periods. It should only take about 500 miles to break an engine in. After that change the oil and do what you want. Believe it or not, how you break your engine in can make a huge difference in how long your rebuilt engine lasts and how much oil it uses. You should also be aware that the rebuilt engine will burn more oil as it is breaking in, so check the oil frequently.
Why did the engine go bad in the first place?
This is important to consider. If the engine overheated due to a partially clogged radiator and a new engine is installed without addressing this, the new engine will surely fail too. If your maintenance was spotty and you don’t change your habits, then the new engine will fail as well. There usually is a correctable reason for engine failure.
And now you know ...
T.I.M.
MikeRuth
Well-known member
Good deal and Good luckTMG51 said:I'm not sure I even want to tell you guys what I did to get out of this. But after being stuck in Newport News for 21 days I am now back on the road.
WheelEstate USA
Well-known member
Oh yes...do tell the story 
Optimistic Paranoid
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TMG51 said:
Glad it all worked out for you. As for what you did, as long as it didn't involve crossing any state lines for immoral purposes, the feds can't charge you . . .
Regards
John
wagoneer
Well-known member
Thank goodness going back 50 years a junkyard motor was 45 bucks with a guarrentee. Always looked for the newer cars and made the motor work. It was a lot of fun when your not
behind the 8 ball. Remember to change the oil and do not I REPEAT do not push her too hard. SLOW DOWN AND GO FOR THE LOWER GEARS.
behind the 8 ball. Remember to change the oil and do not I REPEAT do not push her too hard. SLOW DOWN AND GO FOR THE LOWER GEARS.
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