What's the big deal with a diesel?

[jillybean]

I always hear people talking on Youtube about their Sprinters, beautiful as they are, is a diesel really worth it? I certainly dont want to pay Mercedes prices, but are they really worth getting? Can you find a diesel mechanic as easy as you can a regular one when you break down? Ive heard they last way longer,not sure if that meant in between breakdowns or the length of the engine lasting in general. Im looking at getting either a Roadtrek, which seems to come with different engines, not sure why. OR a Pleasureway (just found out about them in my research)  which the one I saw a tour on youtube had a Mercedes engine so that may be out if that is the only way they come if it turns out they arent worth it really.  Im confused! I know everyone has an opinion but for someone who is knowledgeable with mechanics Id like to hear them if you wouldnt mind. I do know that its hard to find a good used Ford truck (at least the 250s, I used to have horses and looked forever for one) without a ton of miles on it because people love them and keep them forever till they get a new one so that says alot in my book about Ford at least. Any help would be appreciated in help deciding which way to go.

 

[highdesertranger]

diesels engines are about twice as efficient as gas engines. older mechanical diesels are super simple, they are much simpler then a gas engine.

however todays electronic diesels are super complicated and super expensive to repair.

highdesertranger

 

[jillybean]

Thank you! Older as in how old? Back in the 90\'s? or when?

 

[highdesertranger]

the mechanical ones are the simplest and cheapest to fix, that would be early 90's and older. highdesertranger

 

[user 423]

diesels engines are about twice as efficient as gas engines. 

That would seem to mean they get twice the gas mileage. I know they get better MPG but don't believe they get twice as much as a gas engine.  Diesel fuel costs more,too so you'd have to factor that in.

No computer on the older ones would definitely be a plus!

 

[MrNoodly]

Sprinters now have a gasoline engine option.

 

[bullfrog]

The simple answer is if you always have a heavy load and travel long distances on a regular basis the diesel has a lot of qualities that make it the better choice. If you have a light load that you only move short distances occasionally and especially if you say use the vehicle as daily transportation without the load a gasoline engine will be the better choice. To me any vehicle is expensive both to buy and maintain unless you are your own mechanic or know people that are and willing to do the work. I would shop for a good trusted mechanic and find out what he likes to work on that he himself would buy and hope he stays in business if you don't do the work yourself. There are mechanics that specialize in both types of engines as well as different manufactures and those mechanics will know and make the changes to make them last. The internet is great for getting information from several sources but you need a person to make the best of it.

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

are you asking if diesel is worth it or if sprinters are worth it. 2 very different things

if we are just talking diesel

there are plusses and minuses on both. you have to look at how you plan to use it and what you expect. then you need to study up on the pros and cons before deciding what is going to be best for you

when i was shopping, i spent hours and hours and the truck and off road sites, and any other automotive source if learning i could wrangle up reading everything i could on the different options.

my 7.3 DIT powerstroke gets considerably better mileage than the gas engine vesions of my short bus and is considerably more durable. it is also heavier and more costly to maintain. but for me and what i do i chose the diesel

 

[Gr8ful]

Horsepower burns fuel, torque moves loads. Gas engines have more HP, diesels have more torque & yes diesels get twice the milage. I bought the lightest 2000 Dodge 1500 full size 2WD pickup with a gas V6, never got 15 MPG, I bought a 3500 4x4 1995 Dodge with the Cummins diesel pickup & got 24 or more MPG. I now own the last month in 1998 they made the Dodge 12 valve in a 12' flatbed. It cost exactly $5000 ectra when new & when I bought it 4 years ago it added exactly $5000 to the used book price, never lost a dime. Now I own the 1993 Ambo with the last full year IDI International diesel. No computer on either. I don't want a new diesel with all the computers. The Ambo has 88k & the 12 valve Cummins has 115k with many going 1 millions miles & some going 2 million miles. They have clubs & awards for both. But diesels need proper but minimal maintanance to last that long. I won't own another gas truck or van ever again.

 

[brahmon]

this sold me off sprinters:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal-flaw-mercedes-benz-sprinters-tom-robertson

 

[jillybean]

Bullfrog, how are you supposed to do that if you are always traveling and in the same place he is? If you are broke down or need something done, he isnt there....


   I would shop for a good trusted mechanic and find out what he likes to work on that he himself would buy and hope he stays in business if you don't do the work yourself.  There are mechanics that specialize in both types of engines as well as different manufactures and those mechanics will know and make the changes to make them last.  The internet is great for getting information from several sources but you need a person to make the best of it.

 

[jillybean]

this sold me off sprinters:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal-flaw-mercedes-benz-sprinters-tom-robertson

 

[highdesertranger]

all things equal diesels do get almost twice the mpg.

as far as the price of fuel right now in California and Arizona the price of regular gas and diesel are real close to the same. sometimes the are the same sometimes one is a little cheaper.

speaking of fuel prices 2 weeks ago when I was in AZ fuel at the border in CA was almost 5 bucks a gallon. 4.89 for regular, 4.99 for diesel to be exact. about 5 miles away in AZ it was 2.75 for regular and 2.75 for diesel, for a 2.14 difference for regular and a 2.24 difference in diesel just for going 5 miles, unbelievable.

highdesertranger

 

[eDJ_]

I think an informed decision would take into consideration whether you are in colder northern areas or in the hotter southern extremes.  Diesel's, in road vehicles, work well in warmer climates.  Those in cold climates may require specialized equipment such as heated fuel tanks, weather front's or shutter stats in front of the radiator (to help regulate engine temperatures) and so forth. 

Here in Southern Ohio I've known so many business owners with fleets that have chosen to get rid of the diesels. (which were hard to start in the winter months)  Ohio's School Bus fleets are diesel but are equipped for the cold. (as I've been told by the mechanics & drivers I've spoken with)

I have one friend who keeps a turbo Cummings 6 cylinder Diesel Dodge Pickup for his work truck. (he works industrial maintenance)  Tows a trailer with it and swears by it.  But he put an engine heater kit on it so he can get it started when it's cold.  He also has a GMC gasoline Pickup that uses when it has been below 20 degrees for a few days.   But that's only 3 or 4 months of the year. (here)

 

[speedhighway46]

Unless you have a real need for a diesel, like pulling heavy loads, I would recommend not buying one. I currently have a 2003 Ford Excursion with. 7.3 diesel. The vehicle cost abt $7000 more than the gas version. At the time I was in the business of moving printing equipment, and needed the higher torque and power. I no longer have this business but still have the vehicle. The engine has been pretty much bullet proof as it nears 200,000 miles. But if you take care of a gas engine it will go jus as far. I have yet to cross the line where the diesel is “cheaper” than the gas engine. Also, oil changes and routine maintenance are twice that of a gas engine.

Bottom line: don’t buy a diesel because they “last longer.” The vehicle’s body will start to rot out before you begin to enjoy the longevity of the diesel. My next truck will be gas.

And one last thing . . . don’t buy any van or truck that is made by Mercedes: mechanically complicated and shop rates for repair at dealers are through the roof.

Just my opinion . . .

 

[wagoneer]

I have a 1995 3/4 ton with 2nd Gen inline 6 and it has been very reliable I had a 1999 one ton Ford van with a 7.3 I hated working on.

 

[bullfrog]

Jillybean the regular maintenance (oil changes, filters and ect.) on a vehicle is something every vehicle owner should be knowledgeable enough to do or at least make sure it is done properly and on time. If you find a good mechanic and if like most nomads you follow the weather it should be fairly easy to visit your mechanic at least once a year and probably twice a year coming and going. With a good knowledgeable mechanic looking at your vehicle this often you shouldn't be breaking down on the road. If it does happen he should have advised you of the possibility at the last visit so you can make arrangements to get it taken care of should it occur. A good trusted mechanic that has specialized in your type vehicle is well worth traveling to if you don't have the mechanical knowledge as they seem to be few and far between.

 

[Gypsy Freedom]

all things equal diesels do get almost twice the mpg.


highdesertranger

i find that hard to believe, certainly not in any application i have been around

for example, 2015 vw jetta. same car gas vs diesel
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2015_Volkswagen_Jetta.shtml

if you look at the 2 liter gas vs the 2 liter diesel both with 6 speed manual i see maybe a 1.34 times better mpg and if we compare the smaller 1.8 liter gas engine that is still as peppy as the diesel and is a more real direct comparison the margin is smaller at 1.25 times the mpg

i will agree that the gov mpg testing in not exactly representative of the real world, but the testing is the same for all and repeatable so is a good benchmark for comparison, all things being equal. and since they are the same car i think this is a fair representation of the real world difference, all things being equal, no? i have looked up hundreds of mpg comparisons at untold numbers of sites and sources over the years and these numbers are right in there of what i always find, give or take a few % points. still a far cry from double the mpg.

do you have some statistics to support your claims? links that demonstrate this 2 times better economy?

diesel fuel is more energy dense and per gallon has more potential but only in the neighborhood of 1.12 times as much energy
diesel BTU's per gallon 139,000
gasoline BTU's per gallon 124,000
source... https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/energy-content-d_868.html

interesting to see propane only has 91,330 BTU's per liquid gallon

the diesel engine is more thermodynamic efficient than the gasoline spark ignition engine, but even combined with the more energy dense fuel i have not found real world examples that demonstrate double the mpg

 

[highdesertranger]

I have no idea about the Jetta and why the diesel performance is so bad. isn't that one of the models VW got busted for fudging the pollution numbers on?

I am going off my real world experiences. I realize that most experts say 10-15% better but with my diesels fully loaded and towing it's not really even close. notice I said almost and that is about what I get. in fact I get better mpg fully loaded than most gas trucks get empty and when you load the gas truck mpg goes though the floor.

when I worked heavy construction I drove a Pete medium duty dump truck. it did get twice the mpg as my Chevy 1 ton gasser.

also I should have added the disclaimer that I am talking about trucks 3/4 ton and greater. the only diesel car I ever had was an old Mercedes Sedan and it got excellent mpg but back then I never compared it to other like sedans.

highdesertranger

 

[user 423]

I just completed an 11,000 mile trip in my ~6000 lb. Ford van and averaged 16.5 mpg highway.

33 mpg from a diesel version?