What's the best way to seal around roof penetrations?

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
what about the idea of just building a permanently mounted framework, but having the decking (plywood) removable for traveling??
Once you get parked, then you throw the plywood up and either pin or bolt it down. Boom.....DONE!! :D

That would bring your overall costs and traveling weight WAYYY down!!
 
Sorry Sternwake for getting so snippy, I think it was the "insanity" :p comment that set me off, lol. I appreciate that you're giving me the best advice you can, and your input is actually appreciated. Without critical examination it's easy to miss weaknesses in any design that the original designer is often blind to. I am in the process now of nailing down the weight issues, just gotta check with an expert to verify the limits, so thanks for the "gentle" reminder :D
;?D

Patrick, well I was planning on using an expanded metal grating, both for weight and strength (plywood is heavy and will deteriorate). Plus there'll be a couple of secure containers permanently mounted on top for the storage, probably towards the middle section, just before the solar panel array.
 
Bob, I'm a faithful adherent of Mr. Buffets philosophy that "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane.", lol, so I down with that :p

Hey found a pic of something similar to the storage box I want to add up top, only difference is that I would only need one (add to drivers side to offset some of the weight on the passenger's side from water storage) and mine probably isn't going to be covered in diamond plate. I mean it's good looking and tough, but also shiny and could attract attention, do I'll be looking for some other material instead.
I really like their idea of making the top flip up into a bench with a back, so I'm definitely gonna have to steal that idea :angel:
roof-top-tool-box-bench.jpg
This will make star gazing or hanky panky (take your choice, lol) a real comfy proposition ;?D
 

Attachments

  • roof-top-tool-box-bench.jpg
    roof-top-tool-box-bench.jpg
    137 KB · Views: 18
No worries Russ, Sorry for pushing your buttons. The written word does not always convey the intent it was written with.

Here is a roof penetration I worked on Today. My fiberglass roof was originally attached all around with drywall screws at obtuse angles to the forces involved.

Here is a 1/4 x 20 tap exiting about a 3/4" thick portion of fiberglass.
IMG_1819copy_zps7fb13971.jpg


I had bought these thread inserts in case I could not achieve a good machine thread in thick fiberglass. But I could, so this could be overkill if I decide to glas these inplace.

IMG_1830copy_zpsa30d5ee4.jpg


IMG_1826copy_zps1b47d2d2.jpg


The White is gaffer's tape I put up just to make the repair area less noticeable when I am out and about.

I'll probably submerge these inserts in the current fiberglass a few MM, and glass the thread inserts into place too. The Pic shows SS thread inserts, but I have some brass ones which epoxy should bond with better. The 18-8 SS screws will be cut below the level and the holes glassed over with Epoxy saturated thick fiberglass roving for no visible fasteners.

There will be nearly 1&1/4 inch worth of threads for the 9 truss head screws to grab to 1/2 inch worth of metal and 5/8 minimum of fiberglass threads, and pull the roof tight to the leading edge above windshield. . Sure a backing plate and a nut would likely still be stronger, but I don't want that visible on the leading edge of the roof or asking a sealant to last or paint to stick to it.

Gonna be about a hundred fold stronger than how it left the conversion van factory. Overkill insanity. Takes one to know one. :)

I once spent nearly 3 months IN Baja, slowly driving to the tip and back. I took a 4x8 sheet pf plywood ripped in to 2 2x8 foot sheets that I strapped to my fiberglass roof. I used them to turn around on the soft beach, as wind blocks , and in the morning, I'd bring my camp chair, coffee and binoculars up on my roof, and watch the swells massage the sandbars and points with the best view within a mile . I use to drag the sleeping bag and pillow up there at night too. So I understand the desire for a party patio. I love the idea. Safe implementation is the concern. I've driven with a couple hundred pounds up there and felt it significantly impacted handling of My van to the point I had to slow considerably more than expected for during turns and windy roads which became annoying, and driving under low hanging trees more of an issue.
 
Fearnoevil said:
. . . Plus there'll be a couple of secure containers permanently mounted on top for the storage, probably towards the middle section, just before the solar panel array.

You are aware that the smallest shadow on a solar panel can SERIOUSLY compromise the panel's output, right?

Regards
John
 
Yep, I got that, figuring the layout is key to getting it to work right.


SternWake, that looks like an interesting challenge, although I admit I'm not sure what it is you're fixing, lol, the pics don't quite tell the whole story, but love to see the results when it's done man ;?D
 
Russ...

I must say that I'm suprised how much time and effort your putting into this project, when you still need to deal with your outside bus skins
 
FNE,

My fiberglass roof was never attached very well to the roofline above my windshield. The conversion company used drywall screws through the fiberglass roof, into the original metal roof above the windshield.

But the angles the screws were driven, were not perpendicular to the loads. Of the 14 original screws across the roof above the windshield, only 4 of them actually went through the metal and grabbed. They had pre drilled holes, but 10 screws missed the holes and did nothing but scratch the paint and were resting upon the metal, no more.

I had replaced the drywall screws with stainless in 2002, and got all 14 to grab metal, but the rot continued. The tangential angle to the forces involved could not stop the flexing between the two, the sealant would crack, moisture got in..........rot.

I treated the rot, plugged the holes, used 3m 5200, a very strong adhesive sealant used for through hull fittings on boats for below the water line, but it was not upto the task of the flexing forces involved..

It cracked, it leaked, the original screwholes got water in them, the Great stuff foam I had used after the fact had trapped the moisture and caused the whole upper windshield frame to rust badly in parts.

18 months after discovery of the extent of the rot, Diggin out of the foam, and many rolls of White Duct and Gaffers tape to hide the damage, I retreated all the rusted metal with Ospho. I laid thick fiberglass rope and cloth and roving, saturated with high strength epoxy, over the wasted portions of missing metal to restore missing metal and reenforce portions of the windshield gasket, but making it so the epoxy did not bond to either the original fiberglass roof, or the windshield gasket, so both can be removed if necessary. I am hoping to avoid this, but Murphy always lurks nearby.

I then reenforced the original fiberglass roof's leading edge over the windshield with very thick fiberglass rope saturated with epoxy. When the epoxy cured I drilled through the Metal roof and fiberglass roof and tapped the thick fiberglass for 1/4-20 machine threads.

Now 9 1/4-20 truss head machine screws have pulled the fiberglass roof tightly down the the reenforced metal frame below at the correct angles to exert the force properly, not at some wild tangent to the forces involved as the original conversion van company apparently though was good enough.

Those machine head screws are what you see in my photos above, sticking out above the windshield. The heads of those screws penetrate the fiberglass reenforced metal just above my windshield.

I am going to add even more fiberglass rope, encompassing the thread inserts for the extreme overkill factor. The screws will be cut to length and not exposed to the exterior when done. I am doing it in stages. I get sick of looking at it, and I need to drive around so I got it good enough for now, there more white tape over it to mostly obscure it, and go where I need to go when I need to go.

I know I should have cut out the rusted portions and replaced them with parts from a Donor Van. Welded in for the proper fix. This would perhaps been less overall work, but not work I could have done all by myself, whereas I am good with fiberglass, and already have the materials and skills required to complete this unconventional repair. Laying the fiberglass is easy, the prepwork involved before laying the fiberglass is tedious, time consuming and involved.

It will be stronger than stock, more aerodynamic than stock. I've been driving around with 9 stainless machine screws sticking up like bull horns for the last week. It is quite obvious that the roof is stronger in this area, and there is no more separate flex between fiberglass roof and metal frame below, they are forced to flex together. I likely could just cut off the machine screws now and cover over the holes and not worry about water infiltration or strength in this area ever again,

But my middle name is overkill, and I will make use of the brass thread inserts to increase the already significant pull strength of the SS machine screws, but also to make the transition between windshield and fiberglass roof much smoother, stronger, less abrupt, and more aerodynamic, and perhaps it will make less wind noise at highway speeds and give me 0.05 more MPG, Or not.

Not sure if that makes it any clearer.
 
Yep, now I understand :blush:, very good explanation. I was thrown by the size of those "bull horns" and was wondering "What's up with that?", lol, but now that I know we both have the same propensity for overkill, it makes perfect sense.

While I've done some fiberglass work in the distant past, I'm no expert and I've got some rather large cracks to repair, so your explanation has given me some food for thought. I just bought a bunch of fiberglass supplies at Menards yesterday, now I need to find this rope that you mentioned (didn't see it at Menards or the other two hardware stores I checked) but I'll need to source it cuz I think it'll work better in a few of the repairs (is it similar to fiberglass gasket material?). Also gonna pick up some of that 3m adhesive, good marine grade stuff sounds like the way to go ;?D
 
Fiberglass comes in many different styles and weights, measured in ounces per square yard.

This Fiberglass "rope" I used was actually 20 strands taken from 2 yards worth of Woven Roving. This one strand is taken from woven roving is about 1/4" wide.

Woven roving is 24 oz per square yard where as most store bought folded fiberglass is in the 6 or 8 oz range.

If you have any boatyards around they likely have some, but you might have to order it.

http://www.fiberglasssource.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=667.

One of the best fiberglass sites around is Thayercraft.
http://thayercraft.com/

They have incredible selection, excellent descriptions, and free fast shipping, along with excellent prices. I ordered some very lightweight very fine 1.43oz cloth from them, and did employ some in my roof repair.

Wetting this much fiberglass out ( the 'rope' ) takes time. I basically make a cardboard "panga" like a boat, and lay the preprepped fiberglass"rope' into it, and pour the mixed epoxy over it and let it absorb and expand and turn clear. Various tools to spread resin to unwet areas, and after it goes clear I pick up the end and lightly squeeze out the extra resin through gloved fingers and lay it into place. One end I have either tied in a knot or taped off, usually taped with Scotch ot 3M blue painters tape. I'll leave this portion outside the repair and when the epoxy thickens will cut it off with a new razor blades, or many of them, or wait until it is hard and use my angle grinder and a cut off wheel to cut off this portion.

If the rope is just a few strands of woven roving, I will cut them when wet with sharp scissors, but the resin must be removed from the scissors before it sets up. With epoxy a 50/50 mix of alcohol and vinegar works nice, but with polyester resin you are stuck cleaning tools with acetone, which is a pretty evil solvent and can send highly undesirable chemicals right into your bloodstream when in contact with bare skin.. Epoxy hardeners and acetone are especially dangerous.

Woven roving used as 'rope' is basically the way to get the most fiberglass fibers in any given area for maximum strength. Even if the strands go from north to south, east/west strength will be nearly that of north to south in both tensile and compressive strengths.

Filleting corners with fiberglass rope/roving is an extreme overkill version compared to using a thickening agent in resin to fill the same corner. Some thickening agents are 'bulkifiers' and make sanding easier and the resin lighter. I've been using wood flour and milled fiberglass fibers when I need to make a thickened epoxy 'Bondo'. and this is about a hundred fold stronger than store bought bondo, and much harder to sand too, so work with the putty knives/ spreaders is more important to save work later.

But lots of other thixotropic agents are available, all with their ups and downs

While epoxy slowly gets harder, polyester resins, which are easily obtained, have a working time/Pot life, and beyond that it cannot really be worked. Do not overcatalyze the ester resins. Most do.

Polyester resins are generally more resistant to heat and UV light. Epoxy Must be protected from UV though some claim to have UV inhibitors.

Both are exothermic reactions, they produce their own heat. One should not mix a batch of either and let it stay in the mixing cup. faster epoxies will start smoking, as will highly catalyzed polyester resin, so after mixing, spread it out thinner to get more working time.

Epoxy must be mixed precisely and thoroughly. Polyester resins just need a bit of catalyst and are more tolerant of over and under catalyzing and under mixing, though both should be avoided. Wrongly mixed epoxy is a nightmare to remove. It will never fully harden and will gum up sandpaper.

When working with fiberglass cloth , it is difficult to work clean, try to cut it with sharp scissors along the weave, and pull out any loose strands before you wet it out. Make sure the fibers are perpendicular as possible when cutting it and laying it in place. Pulling out loose strands can help to make sure patches are perpindicular. Fiberglass MATT, cannot be used with epoxy, only vinylester and polyester resins as it is held together by Styrenes which are only dissolved by the styrene in ester resins. Epoxy has none.

Rounding the corners can make it a lot easier to work with, although rounding the corners is not always easy. Sharp scissors are paramount. I just picked up a set of finely serrated dress makers shears, and what a difference compared to a normal set of Fiskars! Don't even try fiberglass repair if you've got dull scissors.

The 3m 5200 is incredible stuff, but cures very slow and needs humidity to do so. They have a fast cure version too, but even this cannot be considered fast. If it needs to be removed, it will fight and need to be ground off. Better to consider it permanent, but if it fails to hold, like it did on my forward roof line, then it is just a serious impediment to a proper fix later.

Once the tubing is opened you basically have to use it in a week. You can keep it in the fridge to extend this time to use it. It was designed for sealing through hull fittings, and this should be considered when using it for other tasks. I should not have used it as I did along above my windshield. Perhaps if both surfaces were super clean it might have held, but without mechanical fasteners the flexing was beyond even the mighty 3M 5200.
 
SW, thanks for that very excellent write up! I saved it, and the fiberglass sources - amazing selection on those websites! My E150 has some body rot that will need some fiberglass repair, and this will come in very handy! Thanks again!
Lee
 
Top