Warning to those looking @ the new "Ram" Vans.

[JD GUMBEE]

I am sure if you PM'd M. Gumbee he would be glad to quote a price for the report you want.  He may even quote a price for the raw data.    Otherwise he has graciously offered, in subsequent posts, ways you can verify his opinion, but you have to do the leg work.

I am so glad you noticed that!

Thank you for your observation.

 

[JD GUMBEE]

JD,
Do you happen to have any data WRT smaller trucks like Explorer/Blazer/Durango, Ranger/S10/Dakota longevity?

I'm currently looking for a good small RWD SUV as a Toad for my Motorhome as I cannot pull my AWD Sport Trac or my wife's AWD NX2000. We bought BOTH before having the MoHo.

FWD makes packaging and assembly cheaper, but the customer pays in the long term. I'm not a fan of FWD architecture (even though my wife's overpriced Toyota is one too).

That data is out there, but over the last five years or so, I have been more on the full-sized units mainly. (LOTS of one-ton stuff in bucket trucks, service trucks...etc.)
I could hit one of the windmill customers who runs a fleet of them...but I really cannot violate their firewall without being asked.
(5 years of data would take a while to push out my way...and get noticed by their net security.)

When I last had enough info to matter on them, Explorers were a very bad risk.
Not as bad as Subaru, but pretty bad.

Would you consider a manual transmission vehicle, or is automatic mandatory?

 

[highdesertranger]

hahaha, back in the day in the used car business we called Explorers, Exploders. because none would come through the shop without a problem or 10. highdesertranger

 

[JD GUMBEE]

hahaha, back in the day in the used car business we called Explorers, Exploders. highdesertranger

Without a doubt.
I will never forget telling Mrs G's co-worker, "the dip stick on the passenger side rear of the engine is your ATF dipstick."
When she said, "I cannot find it," I rolled my eyes and drove over to her house.
(I could not find it either...because it was not there.)
Talk about a supreme bonehead design. Bring it to the shop to add fluid...or even check it. <SMH>

I wonder what a 5 speed behind an inline six would have done for that platform.
Ford made the "Barra" inline six for the Aussies (named for the Barramundi fish) and they are awesome engines.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Barra_engine )

Mighty Car Mods did Hot Rod Drag Week with one in a RWD Toyota Cresta. (like a cross between a Camry and a Cressida)


Sub 10 second 1/4 mile

 

[highdesertranger]

those are some impressive numbers from a straight 6. I am talking the wiki article the drags weren't bad either. highdesertranger

 

[jonthebru]

This is the sort of thing that scares me as I consider buying a used vehicle, especially one that I intend to use for traveling away from home. I just want things to work. The Promaster is really popular for van DIY builders. I guess the Chevy Express GMC Savana model shines the brightest as far as reliability.

 

[Parkedinavan]

JD, than you posting your information, I totally agree with you. Wanting the ability to stand up in my van I chose the 3500 Chevy and am having a hightop installed Monday. The company I work for has a thousand or so vans, 90% of them are Chevys. I don't feel the unibody, front wheel drive vans will last nearly as long as a rear wheel drive van with a frame.

 

[rahvin2j3]

Why not use an NV? There was a post somewhere here with a link that highlights a delivery fleet company's experience of having an NV. One, if not all of their NVs, reached 500k+ miles without major repairs.

To quote them: “This was the first time we used a Nissan vehicle. We had previously used other trucks and were having to turn them in at 100,000 miles, or move them to a different route where we could continue using the vehicle,” said Jorge Aguirre, operations manager for Above and Beyond Delivery."

"Since adding it to the delivery fleet, the van has traveled more than 550,000 miles. While most of its fleet vehicles range between 40,000 to 80,000 miles, they do have a few units that have hit 200,000-250,000 miles, units that run seven days a week, year round, but the half-million mile mark was a milestone."

Plus, all the engine parts are very accessible in the nose of the vehicle!

 

[NagathaChristie]

This is valuable information. We were really set on a Promaster. I love how they drive, I love the design, especially the cargo area and the front end. But you have now encouraged me to go back to researching.

 

[cortttt]

I was turned off the Promasters by a Enterprise employee who told me they weren't buying them anymore because of all the expensive repairs. that was a couple of years ago.

In his critique of the Sprinters Fleet owner Tom Robinson, however, noted that the cost per mile of the Promaster was similar to that of the Transit and much less than the Sprinter

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal-flaw-mercedes-benz-sprinters-tom-robertson/

Maybe they've gotten better?

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Why not use an NV? There was a post somewhere here with a link that highlights a delivery fleet company's experience of having an NV. One, if not all of their NVs, reached 500k+ miles without major repairs.

I would also consider a Nissan! The design is solid.
Pay VERY close attention to the statement about the brakes, though.
Toyota Corollas from the early 90's would do this as well.
If the factory brakes lasted 120,000 or more, it meant all highway mileage and if its use was unchanged, they would begin to suck a lot of oil between 350,000 and 500,000.  (Damned impressive for a little 4 banger moving a car 70MPH down the road.)
When you heat an engine and run it highway at a constant speed, it will last five times longer than a city-dwelling vehicle.
Tractor trailer engines are built to be durable...but if you drove them 4.3 miles each way to work every day, they would be a mess within 150,000 miles. Loaded with crap and starting to suffer from "combustion engine arterial plaque."

A Nissan used typically should deliver 200,000 before a rebuild.
...and use that Mobil 1, Amsoil...or Royal Purple in it.
The syn fluids (look up the test results, I suggested those for a reason)make a huge difference in deposits and bearing wear.

 

[Cinj]

This is just priceless information. Are you a friend of the vandwelling community? It's amazing that we are privy to this data knowledge. Thank you! I'm currently looking to purchase a van to make my home dwelling after I sell my stick and bricks. The ProMaster was one of the vans I thought of as a contender. Not so much now. Do you have a recommendation as far as quality drivetrain and engine, etc?

 

[highdesertranger]

just a friendly reminder please trim your quotes. highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

Ok, the lines are drawn!

Who will win?




I DO know for a FACT that sometimes, actually fairly often, some large fleets pick the wrong vehicles for certain uses. Sometimes a manufacturer offers a very low-ball offer if a large fleet will buy a certain vehicle in quantity. 

There are many reasons for this, and they often tempt the bean-counters with a very good price on a quantity order of 200, 500, or 1000 vehicles. And sometimes the vehicles are the wrong choice for that job. But that does not mean it's the wrong vehicle for some other use. 

I personally would not buy a FWD V6 for pulling heavy trailers, but it makes good sense for others who will not be towing a heavy trailer, and who value nimble handling and car-like ride along with fuel efficiency, interior room or a lower load floor in the back.

As I said earlier, fleets, and this includes rental fleets and cargo fleets with a variety of drivers, tend to put vehicles thru some hard use.

 

[tx2sturgis]

My FWD vs RWD cartoon was in reference to a certain crotchety moderator here who will go unmamed,  , but also, to the readers who might be swayed one way or another based on what is written in this thread.

I am of the opinion, and thats all it is, that the buyer should do their research and spend their money on what works for them.

 

[cyndi]

I've deleted several posts. Personal attacks have no place, here

 

[wnybiker]

I'm going to be picking up a new Promaster 1500 next week. It's a campervan conversion and I'll be mostly hauling air since the conversion plus bikes, battery, water, fridge, etc. won't get near the 3770 lb max load that RAM says it can haul.

I don't doubt the statistics of the OP, but I'm still feeling pretty good about the purchase. The Promaster forum isn't full of stories of busted transmissions and other maintenance headaches - there are some (including some leaks) but mostly the folks over there put lots of miles on relatively lightly loaded vans and they seem pretty reliable.

As far as the FWD vs RWD issue, I drove a Transit, Express and Promaster before making the decision. The Promaster was by far the most maneuverable of the three. It turns on a dime -- it really is like a minivan, for better or worse.

 

[wayne49]

I loaded a 1996 Caravan ES up and never had an issue with drive-ability. That said the model, 3.6l, did suffer from tranny failures. I did not haul a trailer. I think the highest available hitch was class 2 for the Caravans.

I prefer FWD for all season driving. Braking, steering, and power is all on the front wheels. Easy to know if you have traction, or are at the edge, before you need to maneuver. Pulling through a curve is sweet and smooth.

RWD is not that easy.

 

[rollinghaus]

I would also consider a Nissan! The design is solid.
Pay VERY close attention to the statement about the brakes, though.
Toyota Corollas from the early 90's would do this as well.
If the factory brakes lasted 120,000 or more, it meant all highway mileage and if its use was unchanged, they would begin to suck a lot of oil between 350,000 and 500,000.  (Damned impressive for a little 4 banger moving a car 70MPH down the road.)
When you heat an engine and run it highway at a constant speed, it will last five times longer than a city-dwelling vehicle.
Tractor trailer engines are built to be durable...but if you drove them 4.3 miles each way to work every day, they would be a mess within 150,000 miles. Loaded with crap and starting to suffer from "combustion engine arterial plaque."

A Nissan used typically should deliver 200,000 before a rebuild.
...and use that Mobil 1, Amsoil...or Royal Purple in it.
The syn fluids (look up the test results, I suggested those for a reason)make a huge difference in deposits and bearing wear.

JD, thank you very much for your insightful post. I am not in your business but my instincts told me that FWD for large vans was not what I desired. I went with a Nissan NV2500 tall top. It's a beast and very much a truck. Can't beat the Titan shared platform. Anyways , it will probably be my last vehicle and after I pay off the car I will be budgeting to keep it maintained and eventual rebuilt engine and tranny.

Regarding the post where someone wanted data. Damn! That is your work. None of that is free. People should be grateful for your intel.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I went with a Nissan NV2500 tall top. It's a beast and very much a truck. Can't beat the Titan shared platform. 

It's not just the Titan, it's the Titan XD, the heavier duty model that shares most of the running gear and frame with the NV.

Bigger brakes, beefier frame, tough transmission, heavy duty shocks and springs, sturdy steering gear. And unless you have the V6, you get the 390 hp Endurance V8, which I believe is detuned just a tad in the NV.

The NV was on my short list, but I ended up getting a 4WD Titan XD and it's got plenty of power and authority pulling my 3000 pound trailer.
.