Vent Fan on Roof or No vent Fan? Solutions?

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2TheStreet

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I'm converting a chevy express cargo van into a camper van, as some of you may know, and was told I should add a vent fan, such as a fantastic vent fan, on my roof. I really don't want to add a fan because of cutting into the roof and risking leaks, although I'm aware of using sealant regularly to avoid leaking. Question: I noticed that one of my middle barn doors has the rubber weather stripping missing, you can see a slight opening from inside the van because the weather stripping is missing. Could I skip the fan vent since I am probably getting some ventilation because of the missing rubber seal? I also noticed one rear back door has a very slight opening at the bottom of the door for some reason, probably needs new seal as well, probably getting some slight cross-ventilation. No rain comes in the van at all from either door though. Skip the vent fan?

I know some people that have not added a vent fan on the roof and were fine .

Another solution: Put rain covers on the driver and passenger window and crack the windows slightly? 

Also, I'm wandering if there is a vent fan that can be put on the driver and passenger window? I've seen those solar vent fans but I see many bad reviews on them. Here is a link to one that got more favorable reviews:http://amzn.to/1BJZpIL

However, that unit will not work at night.
 
How many cubic feet per minute of air do you think is being exchanged with the minor openings you're describing?

Regards
John
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:
How many cubic feet per minute of air do you think is being exchanged with the minor openings you're describing?

Regards
John

I have no idea. How much needs to be exchanged?
 
2TheStreet said:
I'm converting a chevy express cargo van into a camper van, as some of you may know, and was told I should add a vent fan, such as a fantastic vent fan, on my roof. I really don't want to add a fan because of cutting into the roof and risking leaks, although I'm aware of using sealant regularly to avoid leaking. Question: I noticed that one of my middle barn doors has the rubber weather stripping missing, you can see a slight opening from inside the van because the weather stripping is missing. Could I skip the fan vent since I am probably getting some ventilation because of the missing rubber seal? I also noticed one rear back door has a very slight opening at the bottom of the door for some reason, probably needs new seal as well, probably getting some slight cross-ventilation. No rain comes in the van at all from either door though. Skip the vent fan?

I know some people that have not added a vent fan on the roof and were fine .

Another solution: Put rain covers on the driver and passenger window and crack the windows slightly? 

Also, I'm wandering if there is a vent fan that can be put on the driver and passenger window? I've seen those solar vent fans but I see many bad reviews on them. Here is a link to one that got more favorable reviews:http://amzn.to/1BJZpIL

However, that unit will not work at night.

Definitely a roof vent - a powered fan is great to have but the options such as auto rain close and remote are IMO, unnecessary.

 Put a MaxxAir cover on it so that it can be left open while on the road and in the rain.

This and a pair of front window rain guards so that those two windows can be left cracked open in any weather and you've got the necessary through ventilation no matter the weather.

I've used the regular roof vents for 40 years now on various vans and as long as they're installed properly leakage was never a problem. Sun roofs leaked, roof vents didn't!

Where the roof is contoured a second strip of butyl tape is needed to level out the area, then a full length strip applied over top. I found out that there are different grades of butyl tape, the gray stuff that most RV dealers carry is only a 10 year seal, the marine grade (beige) is 40 year....guess which one I want on my van!!

My GMC has the same problem at the bottom of the back doors - a very small area that daylight can be seen through when you look carefully. The guy that did the bodywork on it checked the door alignment and the quality of the weatherstripping seal and couldn't see any faults in either. I can only assume that it's a manufacturing defect - I found a couple on the van! I'll probably be adding an extra strip of rubber to the area to prevent dust from coming in on dirt roads. The side barn doors are probably the same, I just haven't looked carefully enough!

The little air leaks around the doors are no where near enough ventilation and since they're at the bottom, the only thing they'll do a good job of letting in is dust!
 
Here we go again...

Before I installed my vent, my van would run about 110* in the springtime sun when closed up. 

Once I installed my vent, it would run about 90* closed up with the vent open.  Heat rises and the large opening on the roof made it go away.  If I opened the side windows, it wend down another 10 to 20*.  This is in Missouri with the outside temps  in the 60s.  no fan running, just the vent. 

Missing door insulation will only get you dusty and leak away your heat in the winter.  as well as increase the road noise while driving.  

I used a commercial rope type clay like putty that will last the life of the van.  No leaks if installed right. I bought a basic frame from a garage sale for a couple bucks and cut the hole myself.  

Rain covers?  By all means get them.  They will help with the cross ventilation, but do little by themselves.
 
2TheStreet said:
I have no idea. How much needs to be exchanged?

For stick and brick houses, I've seen recommendations from "experts" of anywhere from 4 complete air exchanges an hour to as much as 10 or more exchanges an hour.  High moisture areas like bathrooms and kitchens require more, kitchens especially if you are cooking with an open flame.  To cool a hot building overnight, they recommend  15 to 18 complete air exchanges an hour.

I'll add one more thought.  I've seen a few recommendations for campers that you not place any opening that could leak over your bed.  A leak anywhere else can usually b e dealt with with a pail, but a leak over your sleeping mattress is really problematical.

Regards
John
 
GotSmart said:
Here we go again...

Before I installed my vent, my van would run about 110* in the springtime sun when closed up. 

Once I installed my vent, it would run about 90* closed up with the vent open.  Heat rises and the large opening on the roof made it go away.  If I opened the side windows, it wend down another 10 to 20*.  This is in Missouri with the outside temps  in the 60s.  no fan running, just the vent. 

Missing door insulation will only get you dusty and leak away your heat in the winter.  as well as increase the road noise while driving.  

I used a commercial rope type clay like putty that will last the life of the van.  No leaks if installed right. I bought a basic frame from a garage sale for a couple bucks and cut the hole myself.  

Rain covers?  By all means get them.  They will help with the cross ventilation, but do little by themselves.

"Missing door insulation will only get you Dusty..." Nah, I couldn't squeeze through. I have enough trouble getting in as it is!

Roof ventilation is needed, you aren't as stealthy as you think anyway, so install the Fantastic style vent. I'm seeing more true work vans with a simple manual vent in the middle of the roof nowadays. The Maxx Air covers are nice but huge!

Dusty
 
A friend of mine in school days had an old VW Camper.  I'm guessing around 1960 era.   He loved it and
told me that even closed up and locked it ventilated fairly well.  

He showed me these vents at the back just under the roof line that VW had devised. 

You can see them in this image.

maxresdefault.jpg


He spent his summers living in it at a Resort in Vermont traveling there each year from Columbus, Ohio.  He was a water ski instructor there. He
indicated that in real hard rains water could blow in and wondered what to do.   I was working in a plastic Sign
business part time and I got him some small pieces of magnetic plastic sheet.  (signs were printed on these and they were mounted on doors of a delivery truck etc and could be removed).   So with these pieces we cut then to fit inside over those vents.  It solved his problem he told me.  He could remove them or apply them easily.
The side windows also cranked out and  had screens built inside.  

But VW seems to have always approached their ventilation needs with some kind of lovers in the back.
 
Almost There said:
Definitely a roof vent - a powered fan is great to have but the options such as auto rain close and remote are IMO, unnecessary.

 Put a MaxxAir cover on it so that it can be left open while on the road and in the rain.

This and a pair of front window rain guards so that those two windows can be left cracked open in any weather and you've got the necessary through ventilation no matter the weather.

I've used the regular roof vents for 40 years now on various vans and as long as they're installed properly leakage was never a problem. Sun roofs leaked, roof vents didn't!

Where the roof is contoured a second strip of butyl tape is needed to level out the area, then a full length strip applied over top. I found out that there are different grades of butyl tape, the gray stuff that most RV dealers carry is only a 10 year seal, the marine grade (beige) is 40 year....guess which one I want on my van!!

My GMC has the same problem at the bottom of the back doors - a very small area that daylight can be seen through when you look carefully. The guy that did the bodywork on it checked the door alignment and the quality of the weatherstripping seal and couldn't see any faults in either. I can only assume that it's a manufacturing defect - I found a couple on the van! I'll probably be adding an extra strip of rubber to the area to prevent dust from coming in on dirt roads. The side barn doors are probably the same, I just haven't looked carefully enough!

The little air leaks around the doors are no where near enough ventilation and since they're at the bottom, the only thing they'll do a good job of letting in is dust!

The weather stripping is missing on the entire side barn door so it's not just at the bottom but around the door, however no rain comes in but there is ventilation. Also, with a vent fan, what good is the fan if it brings in cold air in the winter? That defeats the purpose of heating the interior on cold days.
 
2TheStreet said:
The weather stripping is missing on the entire side barn door so it's not just at the bottom but around the door, however no rain comes in but there is ventilation. Also, with a vent fan, what good is the fan if it brings in cold air in the winter? That defeats the purpose of heating the interior on cold days.

Once you replace that missing weather stripping to keep the dust out on the road, there won't be that much ventilation. And yes, you'll want to replace it, trust me on this one!

The fan isn't there to bring IN cold air in the winter, it's there to exhaust the air - it's blowing out not sucking in!

If you're heating with electric because you're hooked up to shore power then a simple insert with foam or insulation can be put in the inside of the roof vent to help conserve heat. If you're using propane then you want that vent cracked but without the fan being turned on to exhaust the propane heater. Yes, you lose some heat that way but it's the only safe way to run a propane heater in the van. That's why everyone warms up the van, turns off the propane heater, closes the windows and the roof vent and crawls in to heavy winter sleeping bags for the night.
 
eDJ_ said:
A friend of mine in school days had an old VW Camper.  I'm guessing around 1960 era.   He loved it and
told me that even closed up and locked it ventilated fairly well.  

He showed me these vents at the back just under the roof line that VW had devised. 

You can see them in this image.

maxresdefault.jpg


He spent his summers living in it at a Resort in Vermont traveling there each year from Columbus, Ohio.  He was a water ski instructor there.  He
indicated that in real hard rains water could blow in and wondered what to do.   I was working in a plastic Sign
business part time and I got him some small pieces of magnetic plastic sheet.  (signs were printed on these and they were mounted on doors of a delivery truck etc and could be removed).   So with these pieces we cut then to fit inside over those vents.  It solved his problem he told me.  He could remove them or apply them easily.
The side windows also cranked out and  had screens built inside.  

But VW seems to have always approached their ventilation needs with some kind of lovers in the back.

Nice!
 
GotSmart said:
Here we go again...

Before I installed my vent, my van would run about 110* in the springtime sun when closed up. 

Once I installed my vent, it would run about 90* closed up with the vent open.  Heat rises and the large opening on the roof made it go away.  If I opened the side windows, it wend down another 10 to 20*.  This is in Missouri with the outside temps  in the 60s.  no fan running, just the vent. 

Missing door insulation will only get you dusty and leak away your heat in the winter.  as well as increase the road noise while driving.  

I used a commercial rope type clay like putty that will last the life of the van.  No leaks if installed right. I bought a basic frame from a garage sale for a couple bucks and cut the hole myself.  

Rain covers?  By all means get them.  They will help with the cross ventilation, but do little by themselves.

Using your vent fan in the winter will negate your heat just as well.
 
It would be great if someone built a 12 volt window fan vent that can be put on the driver and passenger side window and be removed anytime. Right now, they only have those crappy solar vent fans with no battery storage Maybe, I can buy a couple of those solar vent fans and wire in a 12 volt power wire. Any thoughts? There has to be an alternative solution to putting a fan vent on the roof.
 

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2TheStreet said:
Using your vent fan in the winter will negate your heat just as well.

Cut a piece of styrofoam to fit into the opening if that concerns you.  

Almost there understands ventilation.  I spent last winter living in my van.  Being able to pop the vent and air it out really helped to keep it from smelling like a barn.
 
2TheStreet said:
It would be great if someone built a 12 volt window fan vent that can be put on the driver and passenger side window and be removed anytime. Right now, they only have those crappy solar vent fans with no battery storage Maybe, I can buy a couple of those solar vent fans and wire in a 12 volt power wire. Any thoughts? There has to be an alternative solution to putting a fan vent on the roof.

More power to you if you have the money to do that.  Every review I have seen on those say they are a target for vandalism.  Window fan. 

http://www.amazon.com/Fan-Tastic-01...&qid=1435447596&sr=1-2&keywords=fantastic+fan

Roof vent.

http://www.amazon.com/Fan-Tastic-Ve...&qid=1435447596&sr=1-4&keywords=fantastic+fan

Both for the cost of two of those fancy window units.
 
GotSmart said:
More power to you if you have the money to do that.  Every review I have seen on those say they are a target for vandalism.  Window fan. 

http://www.amazon.com/Fan-Tastic-01...&qid=1435447596&sr=1-2&keywords=fantastic+fan

Roof vent.

http://www.amazon.com/Fan-Tastic-Ve...&qid=1435447596&sr=1-4&keywords=fantastic+fan

Both for the cost of two of those fancy window units.

I like max air with the all weather cover better because it looks more stealth BUT some people have said it rattles:

Last thing I want is a big rain fantastic fan rain cover sitting on my roof that I will have to put on and take off, otherwise it will drag in the wind and reduce fuel efficiency.
 
The regular MaxxAir cover is permanently mounted over ones' choice of roof vents. Unless someone installs it backwards with the opening facing forward there is no wind drag.

It also stops the typical vent lid from rattling when open at high speeds on the highway because it protects the vent lid which is not very aerodynamically designed.
 
That is sweet!  I wish I had one like that.  None of the reviews I read say anything about rattles, just occasional electronic failure. (good warranty) 

I do not have a problem with roof leaks, and close the vent when rain is forecast  If only I could find the pesky leak in my back door. 

That is the optimal solution.  A roof vent in my opinion.  So many vans have them they do not stand out.
 
You ask how much CFM movement is needed for a van.  Well the hotter it is the more cfm required, hardly surprising.


Exhausting the air from the roof is best, as hot air rises.

A large fan like the fantastik fan can move an incredible amount of air, and be all the ventilation that is required, as long as there is a source for air to enter the vehicle.

Long ago, I installed one of those 4 inch Solar marine style vents.   Similar to this:

vent.jpg

It helped certainly, but there was no hanging in the van on a hot day. That solar powered fn was only rated at 1000 cubic feet per hour. Later on I temporarily decided to force more air out through this vent with a 55 CFM computer fan.

Much much better, and I expended more effort with better,  faster adjustable speed fans and a step down ring so the 120MM fans could better force Air through the 4 inch opening.

I now have two counter rotating 120mm computer fans exhausting out this vent.  and I estimate these together can move 150CFM.  The feeder fan greatly increases airflow as there is restriction in the mushroom vent.

Rain is never a worry.  Not even when driving in a rainstorm, and not even when pressure washing the roof.  I have since ripped out the original fan motor and ground out the exterior as much as I dared, to reduce restriction and noise at higher  fan speeds.

Air/wind passing over this mushroom vent also increases airflow.  When underway i can turn the fans off and they will still spin at 2000 rpm just from the airflowing over the vent. 

 However , these two inline 120MM fans can  move only a fraction of what a fantastic fan can move on high speed.

My van has conversion van windows with screened sliders.  I made an Acrylic shroud that fits inside this window.  it holds one 180MM silverstone AP182 adjustable speed fan, one silverstone fm121 adjustable speed fan and another fan that came on my vitrifrigo c51is 12v fridge.  Each fan is individually switched and has its own speed control dial mounted on the fan itself.

It is a hot day indeed  when I need to turn on all three of these side fans at high speed.

The window is screened, and I added a layer of chicken wire, the tight weave type, to thwart vandals.  I also place a black carbon fiber filter on the exterior held in place by velcro and it handles highways speeds no problem.  This greatly reduces light entering and escaping, and the carbon filter when new does significantly change the smell of the occasional roving Skunk, and it does get visibly dirty from trapped particulates.  The CF filter does lessen airflow by at least 30%, but it is not a factor 98% of the time  I can remove it in the time it takes to walk to the window exterior..

Basically I always have this window open, even in minor rain events, and the fan pretty much runs non stop April through October at various speeds.

The AP182 is so quiet at slow speeds, and the Amp draw so little at slowest speed, that It is basically very close to my head when sleeping, and I very much enjoy the fresh filtered air.

With my two computer fans on the ceiling exhausting, and the 1 to 3 of the intake window fans window going, and reflectix on the sunny side windows, My white lightly insulated van remains at or less than ambient temperatures, until late afternoon when its starts cooling down outside faster than my van can radiate the stored heat. 

I've often thought of making a shroud  with mounted 120MM computer fans that can be locked in place by raising the window on it, but not for my own van, I do not need it. I could make it as secure as the window itself, but such a window fan would draw more attention than a roof vent.
 I might do so for a Friend's truck that I am adding a quite capable portable battery pack to.  The fans keeping the interior cooler will make up for their electrical usage by having the refrigerator work much less hard to keep the interior cold, and promote the longevity of the compressor as well.

You can certainly get away without a powered roof vent, but all the other options will be less effective and require more fabrication effort, and rain is a factor in most every design option excluding the marine style mushroom vents on the roof.

A member here, TusconAZ, has fitted some fans to non powered marine style mushroom vents.  Perhaps he will chime in or you can search some ventilation posts from a year or two back where he posts links to the mushroom vents he employed, as well as how he fitted the computer fans to them.

I also have a thread somewhere about my ventilation system and the over implementation of computer fans to which I am apparently addicted
 
I don't like roof vents.  Sooner or later they all leak, and they are no replacement for having opening windows.

You have a cargo van, so you instantly have a whole lot more problems than somebody with opening windows.

The ventilation system that came stock in my 1963 Dodge step van, was probably the best design I've encountered for box vans.  Directly behind the passenger seat along the outside wall, was a vent that went through the floor, and was piped up to the ceiling and had an inline fan.  At the top of the pipe, up near the ceiling, there were double elbows, which would allow you to direct the air flow in any direction you liked, including at the driver.

In the back drivers side corner, there was a similar but more complicated pipe.  It also vented out through the floor, on the opposite side from the exhaust.  It had a reversible inline fan in it, and also included a T with a shut off, that would allow the air from the roof to be either exhausted out the bottom, or back to the inside floor.

Both vents had shut offs, and in the winter, recirculating the hotter air at the ceiling back down to floor level kept things quite cozy.  These vents worked without the assistance of the fans if you were driving and had them open.  Another beauty of this system is that you never lost heat in the winter if you didn't want to, but still had plenty of ventilation.

The front vent had a forward facing elbow, and both front and rear were screened to keep insects and rodents out.  That step van had the best ventilation of any step van I've ever seen.  The bottom portions of the widshield opened opened up too.


1963dodgep200.4148.jpg
 
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