UGGGh! Electricity, solar and batteries

[Canine]

Peacefulsoul.if you have the parts when you get to Drayton,I'll help you set it up if you want.

 

[WheelEstate USA]

We don't worry about share on the roof with it insulated so well and the cool coat on the exterior. The rack keeps the panels up enough to keep them cooler.
When parked in the desert, we'll run shade cloth out from both sides of the rack to keep us cooler. With side and back doors open its like sitting in a breezeway

 

[WheelEstate USA]

That's a darn nice offer.
We had use of Patrick's shop lot and some tools to do our rack install.
The old rack only held one panel and really sucked anyway.

Thanks Patrick

As lots of you know, finding a place to do projects like this can sometimes be tricky when you full time on the road.

 

[PeacefulSoul]

Peacefulsoul.if you have the parts when you get to Drayton,I'll help you set it up if you want.

Thanks Bob!  If I dont figure it out before then, I will certainly enjoy your help.  Very kind.

 

[PeacefulSoul]

I got a ladder rack from Amazon...
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0014DGZ88#Ask

Then I went to Goodwill and got a king bed frame for 5 bucks (cheapest angle you can buy). I used Patrick's grinder on rivets to break it down for the long rails...perfect for panels
Rails are mounted with U bolts and drilled for screws to hold panel thru the frame. Brush on some Rustolium paint and you have a nice, strong rack.

Now, I only have one panel, but will add more soon. I mounted the panel long way front to back...for now. When I add another panel, I will adjust the U bolts and turn them 90 degrees. This will allow for 3 panels. When I can afford the 4th, I will bolt an extention on the rails and adjust the rack as needed.





I know you bought a rack but I hope this helps someone.
Another method is to mount exterior plywood to the rack with U bolts and screw the panels to that. The ply is expensive and bed frames are cheap And I didn't want ply anyway.

Bindi!  That's brilliant!!  When I typed rack - I meant ladder rack.   I purchased the same ladder rack you have and like the bed frame idea a lot.  I'll have to check into my Goodwill store tomorrow.  I know the plywood is nice for shade but I don't really like the look.  What size wire will I need to run from the charge controller to the battery?  And from the battery to the inverter?   Also does the cool coat on the roof make a difference in temps in the van?

 

[PeacefulSoul]

Plug your laptop make and model number into Amazon electronics, and Add   'car adapter'

Mine was 22$ is is 15 to 50% more efficient than using an inverter to power the laptop provided powerbrick via an inverter.

On your laptop's power brick multiply the volts  times the amps listed, to get the wattage.  If this is 60 watts or less the ciggy plug connector will likely have no issues, but 70 watts or more then the ciggy plug will heat up and wear out and fail over time.

How much you use your laptop is a huge variable, as its its average consumption.

Fans can also vary a lot in battery consumption.

I really like this 12v 180MM adjustable speed computer fan:

http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-P...pebp=1441429080842&perid=16AVGSF45WFR4CXYRD8F

But it does have hub overheating issues with charging voltages over 13 when on highest speed.  I use a voltage bucker to limit voltage to 11, and this fan has been running in a side window at various speeds for the last 7 months, non stop.  Very low amp draw at half speed or less. 0.05 amps at slowest speed and practically silent.  Fairly powerful too at high speed.  Narrow column of Air moved.

Endless breeze and 02cool 12v fans get lots of good reports on this forum.  I've no personal experience with them.

My computer is at 33.25 amps so should work nicely with the cig plug.  The fan you listed is a fan for a computer?  Are you using it to move air in the van or push heat out?  What pray tell is a voltage bucker?  lol. ah so much to learn!

 

[highdesertranger]

I assume you mean 33.25 watts. 33 amps will melt your ciggy plug in short order. a voltage bucker I think is a Sternism, he will chime in but I think he is referring to one of his variable voltage power supply's. highdesertranger

 

[PeacefulSoul]

I assume you mean 33.25 watts.  33 amps will melt your ciggy plug in short order.  a voltage bucker I think is a Sternism,  he will chime in but I think he is referring to one of his variable voltage power supply's.  highdesertranger

Yes, WATTS! thanks for keeping me straight with the language. :-/

 

[highdesertranger]

yeah you scared me with the 33amps @ 12v, you could weld with that. highdesertranger

 

[WheelEstate USA]

The roof coat helps some, mostly when there's no panels. For nearly a year we had portable panels. The coating helped quiet rain and relect sun with a bare roof. I'm not so sure its worth it if you're covered with panels...white paint would do ok, I'd think. The insulation $$ value isn't there, IMO.

The wire from the controller is the same as to it from the panels. Gonna hafta put some good copper loop ends on the battery end...gotta be crimped just right (check youtube).

The inverter has gotta have some fatty wire, like 6g stuff, with those copper loops again. I can't remember what wire I have cuz the Dern thing in in a box, never needed, never installed.

When I wired for 12V/USB ports I used 12/2 landscape cable. My runs are 10-12 ft and this stuff will handle anything I'll pull off it...tough insulation too.

Now, I ain't the solar pro around here, so you might get some better advice from who are more into the math of it all, but I have a system that works, gives what I need, and nothing is overheating or blowing up

Just call me Cheap Jay

 

[SternWake]

A buck converter is opposite a boost converter:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=17ACGVD58ER9SDJFPTD7

That is the model I employ, but it is larger and more expensive than this version that does not have a display and requires soldering the wires to and from:

http://www.amazon.com/niceeshop-LM2...858023&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=buck+converter.

I use the 180MM silverstone fan as an intake fan in my conversion van sliding side window.

180 MM is only about 7 inches diameter, and as such can only move so much air. The 180Mm fan alone would not move enough air to be my only fan, not without a fan on the ceiling exhausting as well.
If you are seeking to only have one fan in a hot environment, Then go larger.

I am personally interested in this less expensive SS 180mm fan, but have no experience with it. But It uses a sleeve bearing instead of Dual ball bearings, and sleeve bearings usually do not take kindly to operating in the horizontal plane.

Its airflow specs are similar to the AP182, but at high speed uses half as much current which I find surprising.
http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=532&area=en

I tend to push the variable speed fans as I believe there are a whole bunch of usable speeds between high medium or low.

One can also use a PWW motor speed controller to control most any 12v fan's speed:

http://www.amazon.com/KEDSUM®-Conve...9&sr=8-30&keywords=pwm+motor+speed+controller.

How I wish this controller worked with my obscenely powerful Screaming Banshee Delta fan, but lowered below half speed, which is still too loud and obnoxious and powerful, it shuts off.

Do not get this fan, unless you want a turbojet/ blender:

http://www.amazon.com/Original-Delt...TF8&qid=1441859188&sr=8-1&keywords=delta+1212

I did put it in my ceiling vent briefly, and when I closed my door, my ears popped.

 

[PeacefulSoul]

OK. So I got the panel, charge controller and cables from Renogy.  I installed the ladder rack and came up with a solution for mounting the solar panel to the rack.  Quick question...

1.  Best way to get the cables into the van..?.I do not see a way to go through the vent/vent cover and still be able to have it closed for winter.  I am not opposed to drilling a hole through the van and using something to seal it up afterward.  If I do that do I have to put a gromit in the hole or can I just use silicone around the opening?  Will silicone or butyl rubber harm the insulation on the wires?

I attached a pic where you can see the vent/vent cover - I am thinking of drilling hole near that area.  Any thoughts are appreciated!  Thanks.

 

[compassrose]

To start with... You build your battery bank FIRST.

THEN you charge said battery bank. You do not start with solar panels.

http://www.handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

Save and read the Poop Sheets. While some of the links and specific products are out of date, some things never change. Start with "Is Solar Electric Really For You" and move on to the Batteries sheet.
http://www.manmrk.net/tutorials/RV/phred/phredex.html

 

[akrvbob]

There is no right or wrong order to do this, what you are doing is just fine. If you don't already have your battery, you can go get one now.

I can't easily see my vent from the roof, but looking at it from inside it looks like you could drill a hole through the cover and the vent near the bottom on the side, then slit a small hole through the netting. You'd have to caulk it good afterwards, but that's always true and the hole would be a little ways above the roof and not flat on it.

Another possibility is through the top brake light near the roof. Sometimes you can get the wires through there and then caulk it good afterwards.

But drilling a hole in the roof is fine also, people do it all the time. You might could do without the grommet, but why not get one? It's a few bucks at Home Depot and it's very cheap insurance against future problems. It might work forever without it, by why risk it?

No, the caulk won't damage the rubber on the wire. Be generous with it!

Hopefully you're finding this surprisingly easy. It really is just pos wire to pos wire and neg wire to neg wire all the way through to the battery. The hole through the roof is the scariest part but it sounds like you are getting through it well.

One tip though, I suggest getting good quality 3M red electrical tape and wrapping it generously around all the connections on the positive side. In a year or two you don't want to be looking at a pair of wires trying to guess which one is positive or be forced into figuring it out..

You are putting an in-line fuse at the positive post of the battery, right? You really do need that.

What battery did you decide to get?
Bob

 

[jimindenver]

To me it is all about balance. You should consider the available options and limitations to see how they interact with each other before deciding to buy any one thing. Buy a fancy battery and you may be stuck buying a fancy controller that can be set to charge it properly. Buy just a little too little solar and your battery may die a slow death of under charging. Even the thought of should you want to upgrade in the future should be considered.

By the time you work through it all, you wont start by buying any one thing. You should have a completed list of items that work well together to fill your needs.

 

[29chico]

To help understand electricity:

Think of voltage as water under pressure in a pipe.  You can have a a whole lot of pressure w/o any flow.

Think of amps, the symbol is I and is often called current, as flow in the pipe.  You can not have flow without at least some pressure.

 

[PeacefulSoul]

There is no right or wrong order to do this, what you are doing is just fine. If you don't already have your battery, you can go get one now.

I can't easily see my vent from the roof, but looking at it from inside it looks like you could drill a hole through the cover and the vent near the bottom on the side, then slit a small hole through the netting. You'd have to caulk it good afterwards, but that's always true and the hole would be a little ways above the roof and not flat on  it.

Another possibility is through the top brake light near the roof. Sometimes you can get the wires through there and then caulk it good afterwards.

But drilling a hole in the roof is fine also, people do it all the time. You might could do without the grommet, but why not get one? It's a few bucks at Home Depot and it's very cheap insurance against future problems. It might work forever without it, by why risk it?

No, the caulk won't damage the rubber on the wire. Be generous with it!

Hopefully you're finding this surprisingly easy. It really is just pos wire to pos wire and neg wire to neg wire all the way through to the battery. The hole through the roof is the scariest part but it sounds like you are getting through it well.

One tip though, I suggest getting good quality 3M red electrical tape and wrapping it generously around all the connections on the positive side. In a year or two you don't want to be looking at a pair of wires trying to guess which one is positive or be forced into figuring it out..

You are putting an in-line fuse at the positive post of the battery, right? You really do need that.

What battery did you decide to get?
Bob

Thank for the response to this question, Bob. I have not been able to find any decent batteries in this area.  I feel some urgency to get the system set on the roof as my access to tools and ladders will diminish soon.  Since I do not plan to use the solar system until I come out to Arizona in Nov or Dec, I have time to look around.  I would like to get 2 6V  Trojans, barring that, I would settle for a 31 Marine AGM that I found at Sams Club.  I could get the AGM, make all my mistakes on that poor sucker then get the Trojans!   I also have had no luck finding in-line fuses locally.  At this point, I do not have time to get another shipment from Amazon before I hit the road to North Dakota.  Is there a chain store that would typically carry the fuses? The red tape is a great idea that I will certainly do.  Thanks everyone for the support, I feel much more confident having the panels, controller, and inverter in hand.  It makes much more sense to me now...of course I have not had to attach any wires yet, but I feel more confident.

 

[PeacefulSoul]

To start with... You build your battery bank FIRST.

THEN you charge said battery bank. You do not start with solar panels.

http://www.handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

Save and read the Poop Sheets. While some of the links and specific products are out of date, some things never change. Start with "Is Solar Electric Really For You" and move on to the Batteries sheet.
http://www.manmrk.net/tutorials/RV/phred/phredex.html

compassrose - I had not run into the Poop Sheets! Thanks for the links.  I read through much of it today and will be going back there, definately!

 

[highdesertranger]

any auto parts store will have inline fuses Napa, Autozone, etc. get one that uses the same type fuses as your vehicle, makes life simpler. highdesertranger

 

[WheelEstate USA]

I drilled the cable hole over to the side of the roof just as it rounds over the side (few inches above rain gutter). Rather than it being on a flat area it will shed water. And don't spare the sealant