Trolley Electrical System Questions About Batteries Mostly

[Trolley Tribe]

[font=georgia, serif]Hi All . . . Demo on the trolley is just about done and Im turning my eye toward building . . . . . [/font]

[font=georgia, serif]My first questions concern Power Needs and Batteries . . . . . This is my thinking.  Please let me know your thoughts . . . . . [/font]

[font=georgia, serif]My primary goal is to be able to live off grid as long and comfortably as I can.[/font]

[font=georgia, serif]My power needs . . . I plan on a 12v fridge . . . (Im currently considering the Dometic dual zone or something like it . . . that'll be a discussion later) . . . I'll need to charge a laptop and phone.  I use my laptop A Lot for writing and creating art and music and video as well as for entertainment, etc.  I Really like colorful lights and a Great sound system and never want to have to worry about whether or not Ive got the juice to run several strings of LED Christmas lights and a powerful sound system (when appropriate).  I dont plan to have a television but I am looking into portable video projectors to show movies outdoors.[/font]

[font=georgia, serif]I plan to install a ceiling fan and probably another fan or two somewhere.  I might get an electric motor for my bicycle and will need to charge that.  I use a blender.  I won't have a microwave (ever) and of course no air conditioning or electric heat.  I'll cook and heat and heat hot water with propane and the sun.[/font]

[font=georgia, serif]Thoughts on size and type of inverter would be most welcome.[/font]

[font=georgia, serif]I'm starting with the batteries.  I'm looking at Lifeline AGM batteries because I want super reliable, no maintenance, no gassing.  Also, I can pick them up locally.  I'm very open to opinions about other brands.[/font]

[font=georgia, serif]I'm thinking between 400 and 500 amp hours should be plenty.  Is that right?  I can always add more and want to size the system for expansion without going too crazy.  Im a little confused about the advantages of wiring 4 6v in series parallel instead of 2 12v . . . but I'll probably go with 4 6v because I think they'll be easier for me to lift.[/font]

[font=georgia, serif]I have an electrician helping me wire all this up (thank heavens!).  He has experience with automotive wiring but not with solar and RV battery banks specifically.  I want to wire the batteries to charge from solar, shore power, the engine and maybe a generator in a pinch.  Any advice on that would be most welcome![/font]

[font=georgia, serif]Im currently looking at Renogy stuff for my solar . . . that'll be a question for another time . . . . . [/font]

[font=georgia, serif]Thanks!![/font]

[font=georgia, serif]Emily[/font]

 

[AbuelaLoca]

I don't have any answers but I'm interested in what the tribe comes up with because you do have a lot of electrical needs! I've seen it recommended to have twice the solar watts as battery amp hours, so 1000 watts of solar? You do have a lot of real estate on top of the trolley so I'm sure that's doable... Was also wondering about the final weight of your rig... Sounds heavy!

 

[Trolley Tribe]

I've seen it recommended to have twice the solar watts as battery amp hours, so 1000 watts of solar? ... Was also wondering about the final weight of your rig... Sounds heavy!

Wow!  Twice the solar?  I'll need to research that more . . . . . I removed quite a bit of weight taking the seats and wheelchair lift out . . . and she's underweight for the chassis and engine because she was built to hold 23+ people And tow a trailer with people too . . . . . so, she's heavy but not Crazy heavy . . . . .

 

[AbuelaLoca]

Yeah, don't quote me!!! The experts will chime in, I'm sure!

 

[akrvbob]

Four batteries should work well for you. There is no question that Lifeline is a great battery, one of the very best--but one of the most expensive. In my opinion that is not the battery to start out on. It's too easy to make a mistake and wreck batteries so why take that risk (which is much greater on your first set of batteries) with such an expensive battery.

I'd recommend Duracell from Sams Club or FullRiver if they are nearby instead. They are much less money and still quite good.

I'd recommend 500 to750 watts.

 

[AbuelaLoca]

How many amp hours is that, Bob?

 

[Trolley Tribe]

Four batteries should work well for you. 

I'd recommend 500 to750 watts.

Thanks Bob!  I can get FullRiver batteries locally so I'll probably go that route . . . I have great faith in my ability to make fatal battery mistakes!  When you say four batteries should work do you mean four 6v totaling 400 - 500 12v amp hours?  And when you say 500 to 750 watts . . . do you mean watts of solar?

 

[akrvbob]

Thanks Bob!  I can get FullRiver batteries locally so I'll probably go that route . . . I have great faith in my ability to make fatal battery mistakes!  When you say four batteries should work do you mean four 6v totaling 400 - 500 12v amp hours?  And when you say 500 to 750 watts . . . do you mean watts of solar?

Yes, individual batteries will vary in the area around 100-125 ah so 4 batteries will be 400-500 ah. You can buy them bigger but they are in a different category.

Yes, 500-750 watts of solar. You can go with as little as 400 watts but $500 is better and 750 is ideal.

 

[Trolley Tribe]

Yes, individual batteries will vary in the area around 100-125 ah so 4 batteries will be 400-500 ah. You can buy them bigger but they are in a different category.

Yes, 500-750 watts of solar. You can go with as little as 400 watts but $500 is better and 750 is ideal.

I really appreciate it, Bob!  I won't gush . . . but Dang this site and your videos are a real inspiration!!

 

[ZoNiE]

For solar? Trojan T-105's. Hands down. Better than the Costco Batteries. Personal experience. You get what you pay for.

 

[Almost There]

And if you can afford them the Trojan T105REs are 6 lbs heavier each and have a far better rating for number of cycles and a longer warranty.

I had to order online for mine, no RV dealer wanted to give me a decent price.

 

[Trolley Tribe]

For solar? Trojan T-105's. Hands down. Better than the Costco Batteries. Personal experience. You get what you pay for.

Thanks!  I really need to go with AGM to make it as idiot proof as possible . . . I'll take a look at the Trojans . . . . .

 

[Trebor English]

I really need to go with AGM to make it as idiot proof as possible . . .

Flooded batteries have better idiot resistance.  If you charge too much you can add distilled water.  If you want to know state of charge a $10 hydrometer tells you the actual state of charge.  If you mess up and undercharge, AGM are no better than flooded for ruining.  AGM are more particular about the minimum charge rate.  Finally, if you do ruin, the mistake costs more with AGM.

AGM have performance advantages.  Idiot resistance is not one of them.

 

[Trolley Tribe]

Flooded batteries have better idiot resistance.  If you charge too much you can add distilled water.  If you want to know state of charge a $10 hydrometer tells you the actual state of charge.  If you mess up and undercharge, AGM are no better than flooded for ruining.  AGM are more particular about the minimum charge rate.  Finally, if you do ruin, the mistake costs more with AGM.

AGM have performance advantages.  Idiot resistance is not one of them.

Interesting . . . thank you!  Definitely something to think about . . . . .

 

[user 15722]

For solar? Trojan T-105's. Hands down. Better than the Costco Batteries. Personal experience. You get what you pay for.

Yes.  There is no free lunch, and nothing is free in waterworld !
cobbing a system together on a shoestring budget is perhaps most valuable for experiments.  Lessons learned will not be forgotten !

Question is, How much will the education cost, at the end of the day.

It would be nice to fund a properly designed system first time out the gate.  Help found here will bring a traveler closer to that.
Best, wheels

 

[user 15722]

Flooded batteries have better idiot resistance.  If you charge too much you can add distilled water.  If you want to know state of charge a $10 hydrometer tells you the actual state of charge.  If you mess up and undercharge, AGM are no better than flooded for ruining.  AGM are more particular about the minimum charge rate.  Finally, if you do ruin, the mistake costs more with AGM.

AGM have performance advantages.  Idiot resistance is not one of them.

Thanks for that notable bit of advice.
I am fully aware it is nearly impossible to build a fool proof system, because fools are so ingenious.

Probably safest for me to experiment with less expensive 2nd hand flooded bats, then step up to a better product as I learn.
Best, wheels

 

[Trout]

I found T-105 RE on amazon   6ea for @ $1100.
So to verify my thoughts
6 batteries at 6v and 225 AH should be 1350 AH at 6v which is 8100 watt hours
2x3 arrangement for 12V would give the 8100 watts and reduce the amp hours to 675.
So what would the size of her solar arrangement need to be?

 

[akrvbob]

Sorry to tell you, but you've made a common mistake, when you double the volts, you half the amps. So you'll only have about 660 ah of batteries.

You'll want a minimum of 700 watts to charge it and 800-1000 would be ideal.

 

[SoulRaven]

Wheels I had the same idea, I went with cheaper (still not cheap) Duracel golf cart batteries from Batteries plus. So when I fry them it's not a 400 dollar mistake, just 200.

Good luck.

 

[deadwood]

I went with the Fullriver battery route. They make a great battery and they are more affordable then something like the Lifeline. And picking up local is a plus.

With the amount of AH's you are thinking about I don't see running out of power anytime soon. As long as you have the roof space to put up panels to charge them. I have one 12D battery that is 260ah and I charge it with a single LG 315 watt panel and it does an amazing job. But my biggest draw is my 12v Dometic fridge. I have smaller things like my fan and lights but they don't draw as much as the fridge does.

But I also don't have an inverter hooked up. Everything I use is 12v. I haven't found a reason to hook up an inverter yet so I will hold off until I think I really need it. Right now it's just been long trips in the van but soon it will be full time so I will see if my needs change.

You could start out with a smaller system and add more as you go. You might not end up using as much as you think you will need. I started with 260ah's and it works perfectly for my needs. But my electrical needs are pretty minimal right now. But I can always add more if I need to. I just can't add another panel up top so I would have to come up with a way to get more amps into the batteries if I change it around.