Tow Guideline Experts HELP if you can

[Every Road Leads Home]

I once did a section of road in Hawaii that was 37% in a few sections and averaged 25% Only vehicles with 4 low were allowed.



Your trailer spread sheet is extremely confusing and you're making figuring out your tow rating way more complicated than it has to be in my opinion. Aside from the vehicles capabilities towing is very dependent on the driver's capabilities. Towing a 4000lb flatbed trailer is a lot different than towing a 4000 lb enclosed or camper trailer and towing a 18' trailer is much different than towing a 42' trailer.

Manufacturer tow ratings are dependent on all sorts of variables as well, and not all of them are in their control.....such as what aftermarket equipment people install on their vehicles, how many people are in the vehicle, how much cargo is in the vehicle, how much cargo is in the trailer, how the weight is distributed such as to effect the tongue weight, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Your vehicle might be able to tow a certain trailer out of the dealers parking lot and then when you get it home and fill it up with all your stuff, you may have exceeded your vehicle's tow capacity. Lots of variables, there can be no standardized form that will be a one size fits all when it comes to towing.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I just got off the phone with my friend that has the similar pickup and trailer.

He advised me to ask if the truck has a factory or dealer-installed Class 3, 4, or 5 receiver hitch, and if it has a factory or aftermarket trailer brake controller.

Yes on the hitch.  Factory controlled trailer brake controller sits right next to the steering wheel.

The eighth digit of a VIN number provides a manuafacturer's towing code.  Mine is "G".

I use the G to go to the MANUFACTURER'S TOWING GUIDE for my SPECIFIC YEAR and model.  That is where I get all the manufacturer's specs.  Those are the specs used on this sheet.  The trailer manufacturer's specs are also on this sheet.

That's what I am trying to tell you.  They are screwing us with their commercials of towing airplaines and such.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

Aftermarket equipment on trailers must be deducted from the trailer's stated CCC allowance. If you install a fan, a ladder, an a/c, a bike and hike hitch whatever all that weight is deducted from your trailer's cargo carrrying capacity. Every trailer comes from the manufacturer with a sticker that gives this rating of avialable cargo when it left the manufacturer. The dealer does not change this.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

On the form, I dont see a 'result'...a hard number that is the allowable trailer weight. Maybe that is the answer she seeks?

I have a friend with a similar pickup and large similarly-sized cargo trailer and he says it pulls it but the fuel mileage is not great because of the large frontal area...it's like pulling a barn door against the wind. 

He has seen mileage in the 4 to 9 mpg range with that trailer, depending on speed, load, hills, and winds.

There is a result.

It is obvious I need to do the simple form I will do that.  Better than doing dishes anyway.  

Our truck is pretty tall and we are going to have a high back end shell on it so we might be close in height between tow and trailer.  We are thinking about getting the V nose and I am not sure if that is taller than the 9' of the one on the sheet.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

Vehicle capacity is very vehicle specific, and without vehicle specific numbers your figures are just ballpark. The numbers that you should be working with are found inside the driver door area and on the receipt from the Cat-Scale.

Since I state on the form that I am using my eight letter VIN code of "G" and the specific Chevrolet towing guide manufacturer's spec for my model and my year I have done this.

I know the form is hard to see on a phone.  That's why I said it should be printed and read.  Or I thought I said that.

Actually reading the form and taking the time to look at it goes a long way to understanding what I am saying.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

Yesterday I emailed a link to the form to one member of the SAE, I think that stands for Safety AutomobileEngineers. My printer broke and the replacement was crap so after return and shopping again I will print out some and mail them to several members along with the simple form you guys have made it obvious I need to do.

The I want to talk to hitch guys, people who have no vested interest in what tow vehicle or trailer you buy. I think they will be more honest and not play dumb. You should see some of the things I am told by trailer dealers.

Then I am going to write to a Chevy dealership association. I want a verification that the figures I use (once the scale weight is done) are accurate.

My next point of action is I am going to re-join Escapees. There are a lot of people there that understand towing and would possibly be more likely to understand the form as well as take the time to read it.

I will post any results I get. I'm just looking for all the sources I can until I get a definitive answer. Then I might go buy a new truck or just sell it and crowd into the Class B and not sell it.

 

[highdesertranger]

SAE = Society of Automobile Engineers.

as far as dealers changing the weight rating of trailers, derating them is common. say a trailer is rated at 12,000lbs. the dealer can and will derate it to under 10k or whatever you want below the 12k. they will never(as far as I know) up the rating, but I have seen them derate. this is usually done for fees and legal reasons . highdesertranger

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I think what might be the case you are referring to would be is the trailer came into the lot with a manufacturer's CCC of 10k. Then the dealer installs an a/c, a fan, adds a power jack, ups the propane tanks to 2 30 lb. tanks, etc., etc. until it reaches 12k wieght. But the CCC sticker still says it weighs 10k.

I am not going to buy a trailer without the stipulation that if I take it to the weigh station right after purchase and it exceeds the specified weight provided at time of sale that the sale is off and I am due an immediate refund of all monies paid down and the contract is void.

I got out of a trailer sale because I specified that if the ladder could not be installed as the dealer told me it could, that I got the refund and out of the deal which I did. Good thing, too because I disconvered I would have been paying enough interest to make the $15k trailer be $30k by the time it was over.

 

[Almost There]

I am not going to buy a trailer without the stipulation that if I take it to the weigh station right after purchase and it exceeds the specified weight provided at time of sale that the sale is off and I am due an immediate refund of all monies paid down and the contract is void.

Since the dealer will have transferred title to you in most cases, BEFORE you take it off the lot, a better approach might be to stipulate that the dealer has to take it to the weigh scales and provide you with proof of weight before you take title.

You might want to be in the position of meeting them at the scales but Please don't tow it yourself to the scales. You're assuming liability for it the minute you leave the lot.

I had one friend who wanted out of a deal on a trailer because we found out that her tow vehicle wasn't rated to tow the trailer. The dealer tried to convince her to just take it for a 'spin around the block' to prove that  it 'could' be towed with her TV. That wasn't the point...you CAN tow just about anything at least around the block. What you SHOULD be towing is an entirely different manner. Had to done as the salesman wanted her to do, she would have taken delivery of the vehicle and there would have been no turning back.

 

[rm.w/aview]

 The manufacturer tow guides are entrees into the rating wars that exist to garner customers, are optimistic at best, and should only be used as vague starting points to zero in a model that may have what you need. How the vehicle is optioned has a direct result in capacity. Tire size is directly related to capacity as well, and neither of these two examples are taken into consideration when the manufacturer tow guides are published. Vehicle capacity is very vehicle specific, and without vehicle specific numbers your figures are just ballpark. The numbers that you should be working with are found inside the driver door area and on the receipt from the Cat-Scale.

Your using the VIN, model, & year actually is agreement with my earlier post, just much closer than the generic manufacturer tow guide regarding usable numbers. If you don't have specific numbers off the vehicle, these are usable... you definitely have a handle on it.

 

[tx2sturgis]

SAE= Society of Automotive Engineers...they do a whole lot more than set standards for automobiles.

BTW, if the trailer does have dealer installed options, then yes, the remaining carrying capacity does get reduced by the amount of weight that those options add, just like any vehicle.

I'm confused by something you said tho...

Factory built travel trailers are usually said to have a 'dry weight' or unloaded weight of a certain number of pounds, and then a maximum loaded weight. Usually printed as GVW or GVWR. 

Cargo trailers are usually rated with maximum cargo capacity first, next will be GVW or GVWR, then you might have to hunt thru the specs (or do the math) for the empty weight. There will usually be no unladen or 'dry weight' printed on the vehicle sticker. In the transportation industry, empty cargo trailer weight is often called 'tare weight'...

Now, when the new, and still empty, cargo trailer is itself the cargo, such as when it is loaded on a flatbed for shipment, THEN the weight of the trailer is known and stated on the shipping papers.

 

[user 423]

The eighth digit of a VIN number provides a manuafacturer's towing code.  Mine is "G".

I don't know much about towing but the 8th. character of the VIN is the engine code...

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I accidentally sent the below to the admin instead of here. I have been working on the form today but it'll be tomorrow before the revision is made.

Yesterday I tried to pick up the work but I was so burnt out from doing this form I could not. I will make it simple. Also, the bigger the screen the easier it is to read. Thanks for your input I will do a simple fill in the blanks in the same order. Basically for now:
The specs for the trailer and vehicle are listed at the top.
Start with the vehicle specs - all those blue divider lines separate the different specs you need.
Start with Section 1 and read left to right. Fill in that number.
Go to Section 2 and repeat all the way through. The sections are black #s 1 through 10.
The PINK LETTERS are assigned to each value and are used to help tell you where to put that figure in the bottom section.
I left the form with my vehicle notes on it because most people who start the form would not have all the info either. I am showing you that notes are important and to get this accurate you have to make it accurate. This refers to me not having yet weighed the Silverado after the dealer made adjustments.

I emailed a member of the SAE yesterday and hope to get a response. They have a committee trying to standardize methods of obtaining towing ratings between manufacturers. I am going to stay on this.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I have revised the form. It's longer now because I've also given the 4 choices one could use to meet the tire pressure specs of the tow vehicle, which is the reason the trailer CCC ends up having to be reduced considerable. Instead of adding 4,810 pounds of cargo to the trailer we can only add 2,754 pounds combined cargo remaining (after passengers and pets) to the vehicle + trailer. So much for "tows 13k" B.S.

http://www.roadtripsandcampfires.co...p-form-for-trailer-towing-calculations-draft/

What we will do is buy the trailer, create the interior as light as is possible staying within these specs and tow with what we have. At a later date we will change out the tow vehicle for something that can tow more and then we can spruce up the inside of the trailer more at that time. On the good side, this will keep us extremely light. I am, however, going to send a note to one of the Chevrolet Dealers Association and ask them to review everything. I am hoping I have an in to getting them to actually take a look, we will see.

 

[thatdarncat]

Towing is relatively easy to calculate it need not be complex
1. weigh vehicle
2. find GVWR  from manufacture for you SPECIFIC vehicle
3. Find GCWR from Manufacture for your SPECIFIC vehicle
4. Run Class E tires
5 Subtract GVWR from GCWR and what is left over is what the mfg says you can tow
6. if you have a Gas engine divide what the mfg says you can tow by 50%, it will be a more realistic number for all the varied towing.
7. Including tongue weight of towed item never exceed payload capacity or GVWR.

(I see in your sig you have a sliverado 2500, if it is a 6.0 gas engine its not worth a shit at towing what the mfg says it will at 12K...more like an anemic 5.5- 6k
How do I know? I have that turd for a towing machine too, its a real joke for the MFG GUIDELINES of 12K, sure its ok to about 4K for 6-7% grades..... but it stays parked a lot and I do most of the towing with a diesel F350)

8. If a diesel you can approach the MFG's TOWING GUIDELINES fully.

Its all about torque, if you want a vehicle that wont give any surprises at anemic towing get the highest possible torque rating you can possible afford, just because a truck is big and has a big gas motor does not mean it is a towing machine...many gassers are a big disappointment when you find a 6-7% grade even when pulling 50% of MFG GUIDELINES.

Axles, rear end ratios, truck brakes, trailer brakes, vehicle weight, trailer weight, tongue weight, Torque, horsepower, 2WD 4WD, SRW, DRW etc etc govern each vehicles towing capacity.

To recap:
Gasser towing ( comfortably) is probably more realistic at 50% of what the MFG says
Diesel towing is realistic at at 100% of MFG Guidelines
 Torque, Torque, Torque!

 

[user 423]

Depending on the year, if the Silverado has engine code "G", it's the 8.1 liter and has gobs of torque.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

Today I went to the Chevy Dealership and a trailer place. I forgot to ask about the weight distribution hitch but as for the rest -

Both places confirmed the form and my conclusions are right. Scary, huh? And the trailer place, one guy has been selling trailers for 20 years and he argued with me saying I was wrong and he was going to have his boss tell me so. His boss told him I was right and he was wrong.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

The cargo trailer manufacturer supplied the dry wt of the cargo trailer and the gross max wt also. That's where I got the weights and they also are for a specific trailer and would have to be run again when actually buying a trailer because they change stock frequently.

I'm actually glad now this happened because by doing the cargo trailer we are going to be able to fix it just the way we want. We plan to make it light wt. now and eventually we'll get a different tow and then we can add more to it One thing for sure, we won't even know that thing is behind us!

 

[MGfromBC]

When you get all the numbers right, you have a better chance of avoiding something like this.  It was a busy highway on a holiday and the fact that I was the first one there can only imply that it happened just seconds before I rounded the curve in the road.  I helped get out 4 people and 3 dogs with only minor injuries.  I don't know if they had all the numbers right or not but I could due without another one of these.


MG