Tow Guideline Experts HELP if you can

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I have struggled with towing terms and math for 4 years.  I "think" I may have worked it out and would really, really appreciate those who know you understand it taking a hard look at this.  If it is right, or when it ever gets right, I'll do a blank copy for anyone to use who wants to.  First I'm just trying to not lose money once again buying the wrong thing.  I am going to now begin pluging these figures in on about `0 10 different trailer specs with same truck just to see what I see and I'll summarize that.

http://www.roadtripsandcampfires.com/?p=1236&preview=true

Thank you in advance if you take the time to look.  I am hoping the jpg can print out.  My printer is broken and the replacement is going back thanks to installing malware on my pc I had to get rid of.  So I can't print it myself.  PLEASE LEAVE A COMMENT IF YOU FIND A MISTAKE OR IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT OR IF IT DOES WORK AND YOU DO.  

Please ask another if you know someone qualified.  Thanks!

 

[tx2sturgis]

I'm certainly not an expert but I have a couple of questions:

What are you looking to do with the trailer? Load up with all your possessions for full time living, or streamlined camping on weekends?

Maybe you plan to stay in an RV park for months on end, or it could be that you plan on boondocking in the mountains during winter where you will need to carry a lot of weight in food and water.

Do you want the maximum size and weight your truck can pull or something lighter and smaller with a good safety margin?

You may need to get an idea of the end result and then work backwards.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I'm certainly not an expert but I have a couple of questions:

What are you looking to do with the trailer? Load up with all your possessions for full time living, or streamlined camping on weekends?

Maybe you plan to stay in an RV park for months on end, or it could be that you plan on boondocking in the mountains during winter where you will need to carry a lot of weight in food and water.

Do you want the maximum size and weight your truck can pull or something lighter and smaller with a good safety margin?

You may need to get an idea of the end result and then work backwards.

It does not matter what I will do with the trailer.  The point here is the tow vehicle and trailer match up and a way to do that with, as you say, "a good safety margin."  My vehicle was advertised as having a 14k towing on the commercials but then that got reduced because of the 4x4.  IF I am doing the math correctly I can tow this particular trailer with "x" amount of cargo as calculated on the form.  I just used the same form for another trailer I wanted and even though it was considered a small trailer it would have overloaded my tires beyond the 2944 pounds allowed.  Thus I determined that one I could not tow safely.

We need a standard way to make sure we are safe because the car/truck manufacturers and dealers as well as the trailer sales force are lying to us but the math is so confusing that we just take their word for it.  I am smart but these statements about towing capacity have confused me and cost me and others money.  

I am still hoping someone can check the math and my conclusions and see if I am on the right track.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

The point here is do the ....

 

[tx2sturgis]

My question was asked because it does matter.

For example, if you want a big heavy trailer that only has to be moved across flat terrain a few times a year, then getting close to the max is not a huge problem.

But if you want to be happy and confident (not to mention saving gas) pulling a trailer for thousands of miles a year across a lot of mountain passes, staying in parking lots and campgrounds and forests and BLM land, then I would recommend downsizing the trailer, stay under the max ratings, and keep a good safety margin.

But it seems like you want an exact cutoff point, which is really hard for us to provide with so many variables. Surely the manufacturer has published payload and towing ratings that will guide you to a solution. Often times, the tow ratings also say, 'when properly equipped'....so there is another variable. And fifth wheel or gooseneck ratings are normally a lot higher than bumper pull ratings....and so it goes...

Anyway, good luck with it.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

My question was asked because it does matter.

For example, if you want a big heavy trailer that only has to be moved across flat terrain a few times a year, then getting close to the max is not a huge problem.

But if you want to be happy and confident (not to mention saving gas) pulling a trailer for thousands of miles a year across a lot of mountain passes, staying in parking lots and campgrounds and forests and BLM land, then I would recommend downsizing the trailer, stay under the max ratings, and keep a good safety margin.

But it seems like you want an exact cutoff point, which is really hard for us to provide with so many variables. Surely the manufacturer has published payload and towing ratings that will guide you to a solution. Often times, the tow ratings also say, 'when properly equipped'....so there is another variable. And fifth wheel or gooseneck ratings are normally a lot higher than bumper pull ratings....and so it goes...

Anyway, good luck with it.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I think it's obvious you didn't understand the form and did not look at it well enough. As for the trailer, we've owned tent, pickup shell, winnie motorhome, 2 class B's, a folding chalet trailer so we've got the type vs use and weight etc. down pretty good. This post was to see if I can find someone to check the math and the logic of the figures used for a specific tow vehicle and a specific trailer. They are either right or they are wrong. The weight distribution may or may not help and I'm not sure if I add it's weight to the trailer weight and then turn around and deduct it off the tow vehicle cargo. And the form poses another question, if the tires are rated at 2,944 is it possible and safe to change them out for another rated higher?

The ratings ARE given on the form for my ball hitch and then I also note what they would be if I towed a 5th or a gooseneck.

 

[highdesertranger]

don't take this personally but do you work for the IRS. that form is very confusing. yes you must pay attention to your weight and tires but.......after trying to follow that form I am confused. sorry. highdesertranger

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

I know, I will work on an instruction sheet and a simple fill in the blank to get the formulas today. I wanted one form that had ALL the definitions and maps out the way each figure is obtained. That way anyone using it uses the same definition and method of obtaining the results. This way, if the form is wrong we can correct it until it is.

Once we have something like this we'll be able to run specs in no time and stop buying things that are breaking down our tow vehicles and causing accidents on the road just so the auto and trailer industries can sell us bigger and heavier trailers so they can line their pockets.

I am going to visit some Chevy dealers and hitch shops and see what they say about the specs and send a copy to that SAE group researching the problems with towing specs.

I once changed the medical bookkeeping method nationally because I created a new form and gave it to the medical forms company to have printed up so I'm not giving up yet.

 

[tx2sturgis]

It reminds me of an IRS tax return also...

I was trying to be helpful and diplomatic about it....I do sense some frustration. 

But frankly, the form (as of today, the 23rd) has limited value as is. And I am familiar with the various terms used. I do see the trailer listed, it's a 16ft cargo trailer. I wish that had been stated in the post, I had to hunt for it on the form. 

On the form, I dont see a 'result'...a hard number that is the allowable trailer weight. Maybe that is the answer she seeks?

I have a friend with a similar pickup and large similarly-sized cargo trailer and he says it pulls it but the fuel mileage is not great because of the large frontal area...it's like pulling a barn door against the wind. 

He has seen mileage in the 4 to 9 mpg range with that trailer, depending on speed, load, hills, and winds.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I just got off the phone with my friend that has the similar pickup and trailer.

He advised me to ask if the truck has a factory or dealer-installed Class 3, 4, or 5 receiver hitch, and if it has a factory or aftermarket trailer brake controller.

 

[rm.w/aview]

The form is similar to what I've done in the past, deleting of any specs provided by a manufacturer towing guide/cargo cap guide and inserting my own vehicle specific numbers to reach a conclusion. The manufacturer tow guides are entrees into the rating wars that exist to garner customers, are optimistic at best, and should only be used as vague starting points to zero in a model that may have what you need. How the vehicle is optioned has a direct result in capacity. Tire size is directly related to capacity as well, and neither of these two examples are taken into consideration when the manufacturer tow guides are published. Vehicle capacity is very vehicle specific, and without vehicle specific numbers your figures are just ballpark. The numbers that you should be working with are found inside the driver door area and on the receipt from the Cat-Scale. Of course the GVWR for truck & trailer are needed, as well as the GCVWR, but these work best with real numbers as opposed to the rating war numbers found in tow rating guides. Start by loading the truck for travel as you would as a full time nomad and hit the Cat-Scale, then add in for passengers or pets as appropriate or anything that wasn't, but should've been, with you on the scale. From this point you'll become a happy camper.

 

[highdesertranger]

also keep in mind that all the truck manufactures got in trouble for inflating the payload and towing numbers. they would remove everything they could like rear bumpers, spare tires, etc. they would only have about 2 gallons of gas in the trucks. I think it was a few years ago so anything but the newest trucks have inflated numbers. highdesertranger

 

[jacks18614]

How does this sign effect your spreadsheet when you pass it doing 50 mph in top gear?

 

[tx2sturgis]

WOW!  18%!

Whats on the other side of the T intersection? Debris?

 

[jacks18614]

You first have to make it thru the intersection of one of main rural highways in that area.

Straight and to the right guard rail with a drop off into a field, to the left this>

 

[highdesertranger]

holy cow 18%. low gear for sure. highdesertranger

 

[B and C]

Holy cow is right. The steepest I've been on is 12% and that was bad enough.

 

[LowTech]

18%! I'm on with that. Low range and I'll probably have to give it some throttle. :-]

 

[highdesertranger]

hahaha Low Tech, you could probably idle up that 18%. highdesertranger