Too poor to retire and too young to die

[Wanderer]

http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/#nt=notification


Saw this in a retirement forum...If it should be moved, go ahead...

 

[gcal]

http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/#nt=notification


Saw this in a retirement forum...If it should be moved, go ahead...

This is why some of us are judgemental instead of indiscriminately accepting and supportive of everyone wth half baked ideas that comes onto the forum. But for a couple of very lucky breaks, over which we had no control, these people could be DH and me. Don't think that we do not know that.

 

[LeeRevell]

Good story and a gutsy lady.  Wishing the best for her.

 

[GotSmart]

I want to live life as much as I can, before I don't have any. 


That sums it up.

 

[dhawktx]

Thank you for sharing this.

 

[SoulRaven]

Eeks.

To be fair, there is a time and a place to spend your last dime on a quality sit-down meal. The blogger "Mobile Homemaker" mentions this in her post "Controlling Desperation":

"If you cannot think of what to do, if you believe that all hope has gone, if you are tired of trying, then pause. Breathe deeply. Do you have any money at all? If you do, spend it on a good meal, even if you are spending every dime. Get a good meal, and sit in a warm place eating it, with friendly people serving it. Eat and enjoy, and think about good things. ... There is nothing so painful as desperation. Nothing so counterproductive. Now that you are feeling good again, nothing has changed, except you. You are different. Now you can think. ... Try to identify your most pressing problems individually, and find a straight line to a solution."


My therapist, who uses an EcoTherapy model focused on resetting the central nervous system naturally, also emphasizes how important it is to 'lean into' small pleasures, and eating especially is one that has a profound effect on the nervous system if it is food you enjoy. Because of this, I sometimes choose to spend more on a gourmet meal and then skip a few to even out the budget. I find this is the most mentally stabilizing for me. I know it doesn't seem to make sense initially, but when it prevents panic attacks that tend to cost even more then a twisted but sensical logic appears.

I don't know if that's the case here, all I'm saying is that's been my experience and apparently the experience of at least a couple others.

That said, it's hard to make excuses for the fact that she makes so much more than me and still sunk herself into deep debt. When I make a decision to splurge for the sake of my overall mental health, it's with the understanding the I will be sacrificing in another area to keep the zeros adding up. Often it's some other essential that gets its corners cut, such as physical health, so there's always a balancing act happening over which essentials are highest priority at that time. I'm not seeing evidence that she's actively serious about living within her means, and that bothers me.

Also, yeah, can't afford tickets. So don't speed! My boyfriend got ticketed for not stopping fully at a red light before making a right-hand turn. Cars behind me get annoyed sometimes when I never go more than 5 above the speed limit or make sure to stop fully at red lights even at right hand turns. It's because I freakin' can't afford to pay a ticket, so I'm a little extra cautious. I got ticketed once when my van's master brake cylinder went out and I all but crash landed in a 15 minute parking spot. Stayed there a lot longer than 15 minutes waiting for 5 lanes of traffic to die down enough to semi-safely cross the street to a mechanic's. The ticket massively upset me, but I sent in a letter of explanation, my apologies, and a copy of the mechanic's receipt backing up my story, and never had to pay it.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

There are actually THREE stories here.  In the second one, about Mark and Denise Fuller, they mention that he has a military pension of $2700 a month.

Is there anyone here who couldn't live comfortably on $2700 a month?

The one fact tying all three examples together is that they ALL have huge debt they are trying to cope with.

A cautionary tale, indeed.

Regards
John

 

[SoulRaven]

Agree with Optimistic Paranoid. I am also wondering how she got $50,000 in credit card debt. Also, for the cost of her lunch, I can make at least 4 healthy meals for a family of 3 adults and even more if financially pressed. I have been at the point of reading my electric meter everyday as I computed how much we could afford each day, and in the evening, whether we had the lights on and tv depended on where we were for the day on affording the electrical power that day.

I have never wasted my time thinking about what I "deserve" but working with what I could afford. That goes a long way in keeping one out of debt.

It was over 30 years ago that I read that electric meter everyday. I would have to admit having went without things made me financially smart and endlessly frugal despite what income came into the household.

This woman would have the choice to move into low income housing and get financial support in the way of public assistance, so she is making a choice. We all don't have endless choices to choose from so we work with what we have and get on with it or whine to someone and feel sorry for ourselves.

Something tells me that this woman is actually enjoying the moving around and having the jobs that she has and that a news person decided to exploit her situation. I have seen several stories like this that were negative toward the RV lifestyle. Most of the people failing in the RV lifestyle were failing in the stick/bricks lifestyle and just took their problems along with them. A lifestyle change is more than just moving from a fixed resident to a mobile one.

 

[gcal]

Agree with Optimistic Paranoid.  I am also wondering how she got $50,000 in credit card debt.  Also, for the cost of her lunch, I can make at least 4 healthy meals for a family of 3 adults and even more if financially pressed.  I have been at the point of reading my electric meter everyday as I computed how much we could afford each day, and in the evening, whether we had the lights on and tv depended on where we were for the day on affording the electrical power that day.

I have never wasted my time thinking about what I "deserve" but working with what I could afford.  That goes a long way in keeping one out of debt.

It was over 30 years ago that I read that electric meter everyday.  I would have to admit having went without things made me financially smart and endlessly frugal despite what income came into the household.

This woman would have the choice to move into low income housing and get financial support in the way of public assistance, so she is making a choice.  We all don't have endless choices to choose from so we work with what we have and get on with it or whine to someone and feel sorry for ourselves.

Something tells me that this woman is actually enjoying the moving around and having the jobs that she has and that a news person decided to exploit her situation.  I have seen several stories like this that were negative toward the RV lifestyle.  Most of the people failing in the RV lifestyle were failing in the stick/bricks lifestyle and just took their problems along with them.  A lifestyle change is more than just moving from a fixed resident to a mobile one.

I don't understand the debt, either. How did she even get anyone to give her that much credit? We moved into retirement with no debt. But I do know people our age who are still paying off cars and 2nd\3rd mortgages. That is just baffling.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

A couple of other interesting things I saw in the article:

Regarding the second couple, it said that "Mark has started taking classes to become an on the road rig repairman and inspector known as an RV Doctor."

Out of curiosity, I Googled "RV Doctor Classes" and found this site:

https://rvtechcourse.com/

There may be other, similar courses available, and possibly these would be of interest to some of the people here.

Finally, in the third and final segment the couple:  "Months later, they bought a diesel truck at an auction.  Then it's engine blew.  Cost:  $18,000."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  do not, Do Not, DO NOT buy a diesel pickup truck.  The modern ones are expensive disasters waiting to happen!

Regards
John

 

[dhawktx]

gcal

I don't understand the debt, either. How did she even get anyone to give her that much credit? We moved into retirement with no debt. But I do know people our age who are still paying off cars and 2nd\3rd mortgages. That is just baffling.

Look at her background. She'd worked as a bank executive secretary and a museum curator, among other jobs. She obviously used to make decent money, but never learned to save much of it, except for some stock investments - which, next to property, used to be THE way to plan for your retirement. She also racked up debt because she never thought in terms of losing that money stream or the retirement investments. She was in the heyday of her earnings in the 80s and 90s when credit was easier to get than a date. It was the bubble and would never stop growing.

Or so they were told and they believed it. 'They' are 10 to 20 years older than I am. The head and mid-section of the great snake that is the Boomers. I'm one of the very last scales on the end of the tail. I saw and learned a lot from what was happening to them, but I was still naive enough that I got caught in part of it.

Oh, and as far as the speeding? She was only going 45 in a 35 zone. In a strange town that is EASY to do, especially if you are passing through and don't know the speed traps.

Is she living beyond her means? Totally. Are 'we' that much better than her? Other than the experienced members here, not really. I'm still trying to find a way to get ON the road and avoid the pitfalls already discussed on this excellent thread.

This cautionary tale reminds us of the most critical lesson to be learned on the forum: That preparation is much more important when you are going to have less room for error.

 

[SoulRaven]

I don't think it is a matter of being "better" than her but, in my case, not having a lot of sympathy for her. It appears that her present circumstance is of her own making and the sense of entitlement to more than what others often have or that she could afford got her in the situation.

I have an adult son with Down syndrome, in his case, he has very limited life choices. I feel most people have a wide range of choices that they can pursue and sometimes the choices you made in the past limit the choices you can make in the present and future. You just learn to live with that.

I react negatively to those that want to criticize the RV lifestyle, and they are always out there fishing around for the worst possible scenario.

 

[gcal]

A reminder to the LIVE for today crowd. You are very likely to be alive tomorrow and the next day, too, living with the choices you made, today. Google some insurance actuarial tables and see how many days you can expect on average. Yes, that is an average. But that is how long you statistically have to live with, pay for, or benefit from the decisions you make each day until you die.

 

[thatchickinpa]

This article was very sad. Since I haven't lived this woman's life or know what her previous choices were and what they were based on, I am not going to judge her based on wild assumptions from scant bits of presented information.

I empathize with her situation. There have been times in my life where I had so little money in my bank account that I couldn't take out the minimum from an ATM and just had a few coins in my pocket. And other times where I didn't know how much was in my bank account because I knew there was always enough for whatever I wanted to buy. Of course I prefer the latter, as it is a lot less stressful.

Financial difficulties can happen at any age, and while they can be the result of poor choices, they can also be the result of pure bad luck (ie things out of our control such as economic downturns and changing labor trends). They are so much more difficult to overcome in later years than when young, because there simply isn't enough time or stamina left to turn things around.

I'm happy that she gets to travel even if she isn't always able to go where she prefers. If I live to be her age, I hope that I'm not on the road working long hours at seasonal minimum wage jobs trying to scrape by, always worrying about how to pay for repairs or where my next gig will be. That is an awful way to live at age 20, let alone age 80.

 

[BC Guy]

This will continue as long as no emphasis is given to teaching people about personal finances/budgeting. Now they are teaching kids about computers in grade 1. It would be more to the point if they taught about handling money and preparing for the future.
I worked with a guy around 35 years ago on a job that paid a little over minimum wage. He lived in a rooming house. He would have been in his 50's. He had 3 maxed out credit cards. He told me that he would take friends out for restaurant meals and that he would go on trips and stay in hotels. He had no savings and darned all for possessions. And then he was fired.

 

[HarmonicaBruce]

I read the article.  She was once a bank executive!  No wonder the banks are so messed up.

The law of karma catches up with you eventually.  Things have cause and effect.  How do you just wake up one day and say gee, I'm broke!  Don't you notice you're going broke earlier, and don't you take steps to stop it?  

Some call me unkind because I say people get what they earn, what they deserve, because that's the law of the universe (inho).  Telling that to people might cause them to take steps to deserve better, or it might just make them feel badly.  Since they already feel badly about their situation, what's the difference?

 

[masterplumber]

[quote='"]
A couple of other interesting things I saw in the article:

Regarding the second couple, it said that "Mark has started taking classes to become an on the road rig repairman and inspector known as an RV Doctor."

Out of curiosity, I Googled "RV Doctor Classes" and found this site:

https://rvtechcourse.com/

There may be other, similar courses available, and possibly these would be of interest to some of the people here.

Finally, in the third and final segment the couple:  "Months later, they bought a diesel truck at an auction.  Then it's engine blew.  Cost:  $18,000."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  do not, Do Not, DO NOT buy a diesel pickup truck.  The modern ones are expensive disasters waiting to happen!

Regards
John
[/quote]

Well don't buy a diesel truck if you don't understand or need one, but personally for me life would actually be more expensive with a gasser as my truck weighs 10,000 to 11,000 lbs at any given time, and I tow trailers up to 18,000 lbs regularly. In the same way people are all different, so are their vehicle needs. 

As for the woman in the first story, she reminds me of my parents who would be about the same age. They never did learn to handle their money, and I have spent most of my life trying to unlearn their lessons. My hope is that I've taught my children differently so they don't have to struggle as much and can spend much more of their lives living their dreams.

 

[gojo]

I read the article.  She was once a bank executive!  No wonder the banks are so messed up.

The law of karma catches up with you eventually.  Things have cause and effect.  How do you just wake up one day and say gee, I'm broke!  Don't you notice you're going broke earlier, and don't you take steps to stop it?  

Some call me unkind because I say people get what they earn, what they deserve, because that's the law of the universe (inho).  Telling that to people might cause them to take steps to deserve better, or it might just make them feel badly.  Since they already feel badly about their situation, what's the difference?

And never retaliate or the karma will be broke. I agree, it's the law of the universe.

 

[akrvbob]

How do you just wake up one day and say gee, I'm broke!  Don't you notice you're going broke earlier, and don't you take steps to stop it?  

Some call me unkind because I say people get what they earn, what they deserve, because that's the law of the universe (inho).  Telling that to people might cause them to take steps to deserve better, or it might just make them feel badly.  Since they already feel badly about their situation, what's the difference?

In 2008 a lot of people woke up one day and the world had left them broke, many others were on their way to being broke and homeless. I'm sure all of them got just what they deserved, right? 

Like a friend who had been a faithful employee of Bank of America for 20 years, then in 2009 they could save a buck so closed his whole division of IT and sent it to India. I'm sure they all got what they deserved. I guess I'm not as good a friend as you are because I never could bring myself to tell my friend from Bank of America that he got what he deserved. I guess I should have made him feel a little worse than he already did. Like you said "What's the difference?"

I look at Karma a little differently than you do. I think I can either be part of correcting people and making them feel a litttle worse, or I can be the part that offers them hope and compassion. No one needs more hope and compassion  than I do so that's what I try to spread around. It seems to be working pretty well for me so far. I hope your way is working well for you.
Bob

 

[gcal]

I react negatively to those that want to criticize the RV lifestyle, and they are always out there fishing around for the worst possible scenario.

It is easy to find bad scenerios. This is true of every lifestyle, but especially in ones that are unusual. As the years go by, even retired people who have planned and prepared well will have inflation or health issues. Younger people seldom have the cushion that real estate investment can provide. When hard times happen for us, they happen in a confined space and they look worse to an audience that is used to a personal space that is usually several times what we have, even in the good times. Also, those of us who move about tend not to have a geographically concentrated support group of friends and family.  We have our bad times among strangers. Of course, we also do not get trapped by underwater houses that we cannot sell. We can go to where better times may be.

Maybe there are different values at work, too. Personally, if you leave out the debt and the inability to maintain her RV, the first woman's life sounds pretty good! I would love to be able to work temporary or part-time at things just because they interest me, which I could never do when I had to worry about benefits and payscale. Day after day of having nothing you have to when you get up except pee gets old. I do not take "unstructured" very well and I still have too much potential productivity left in me to be content rusting on my laurels.