To extend or not to extend

[yesican]

<br>Speaking of van's...What do you guys think of this one?&nbsp; I have a diesel pickup but living in an overhead camper is just not up my alley--hard place to find a sleeping area for the dog and not step on her if I'm up and moving around inside.&nbsp; Are these van's good?<br><br>Rae<br><br><a href="http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/3563452103.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://anchorage.craigslist.org/cto/3563452103.html</a>

 

[owl]

&nbsp;&nbsp; I think the obsession with gas mileage is unfounded. Look at your income and figure out what you can spend for fuel. By the week, month, year. That will determine how you will live in whatever you choose. Most live in a van, etc. because of simple economics. Living in and traveling in a van are two entirely different things. Two people in exactly the same vehicle, will spend different amounts on fuel depending on their chosen lifestyle. If you have enough money to get up every day and travel down the road three hundred miles then perhaps that's what you will do. If not, you may only travel three hundred miles once a month, etc. The reality is, how much space do you need, and will you be able to afford that space on your income. If you have a vehicle you are comfortable living in and drive one hundred miles a month the difference in dollars between twenty miles per gallon and ten miles per gallon is twenty dollars at four dollars a gallon.

 

[MrNoodly]

They say diesels were ment to be fired up and never shut down. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's true that one of the main benefits of diesels is they like being used for long continuous periods. Short hop driving makes them unhappy from carbon deposits that form from heating-cooling-heating-cooling cycles.<br><br>The other advantage of diesels is that they generate massive torque, which makes them great for hauling heavy loads. So unless you're loaded to maximum weight and hauling a trailer, diesel is sort of overkill.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Diesels are great, but loud, and expensive to fix, especially the new ones. &nbsp;The price of Diesel fuel, at least in California, negates the added MPG. But for hauling, and climbing mountain ranges, diesel is orders of magnitude superior.<br><br>My Van has the smaller gasser V8. &nbsp;I am very glad it does not have the V6, and very rarely do I wish it had the bigger v8.<br><br>While one can say I want this and this and that and nothing else will do, in reality this this and that might not be available nearby, or it might need huge amounts of work.<br><br>I say find a van nearby in good mechanical condition, which could be made to work, rather than limit yourself to a specific van which might need a lot more work to be mechanically sound.<br><br>Hoping that the ideal/perfect Van comes up for sale requires a lot of luck.&nbsp;<br><br>It is way too easy to load any Van down with too much weight. &nbsp;I pulled out 80 pounds last week, stuff I hadn't even looked at for a year, but I was dragging around with me. &nbsp;What a waste of fuel. &nbsp;The more room you have inside, the more easy it is to fill it with junk you just do not need.<br><br>Few full size v6 vans do much better MPG wise than their v8 counterparts. &nbsp;Many v6's do not come with overdrive transmissions. &nbsp;Their engines had to work harder their whole life, and when up for sale at van dweller prices, are more likely to be tired and in need of a rebuild.<br><br>Locate foot, take aim, shoot.

 

[MrNoodly]

It is way too easy to load any Van down with too much weight. &nbsp;I pulled out 80 pounds last week, stuff I hadn't even looked at for a year, but I was dragging around with me. &nbsp;What a waste of fuel. &nbsp;The more room you have inside, the more easy it is to fill it with junk you just do not need.

<br><br>I've been in the process the past couple of months of selling the house and getting rid of stuff. As I went room to room, pulling stuff to toss in the dumpster, give to charity or put on eBay, I kept finding things I'd forgotten I had. Long ago, those things were important to get for some reason. But now? Eh.<br><br>I have some things that are quite nice and have some real meaning to me. But do I <em>need</em> them? No.<br><br>I got thinking about what I actually use day to day. Not much. And of the things I do use, I don't need all the multiples. For example, I have two complete sets of tableware. That just means more dirty dishes can pile up in the sink or dishwasher before washing. But I could live just fine with one plate, bowl, glass, knife, fork and spoon instead of eight of each. I'd just need to retrain myself to wash them when I'm done instead of letting them sit. Having only one set would get me retrained in a hurry. I could have a second set stashed away if I needed a replacement.<br><br>Back when I was married, my wife had a very different idea of what camping was. I was a minimalist, she wasn't. One trip we had to take two vehicles in order to transport everything for a two-day campout. I made several week-long trips abroad with just a carry-on bag. I spent a month last year working on the other coast with just a suitcase, duffle and computer bag. So I <em>think</em> I won't have too much trouble adjusting to van life. Camping in a steel tent. Living in a motel without maid service. We'll see. Even if I give up vandwelling, I doubt I'll ever collect as many belongings again.<br><br>But I still think an extended van would be nice. <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle">

 

[accrete]

Greetings Karen (&amp; all...the read of this thread so-far was enjoyable)<br><br>As an FYI : )<br>My wife and i have a 2010 Chevy 1500 Regular Body (~9 feet of floor behind the front seats) All Wheel Drive van with the 5.3L V8. We have a high top van conversion on it and it is also my wife's daily driver. She LOVES it! She can park it in any regular sized parking space in town or elsewhere. The van gets ~15/16 in town and ~17-19 highway (best millage seen at about 60mph on the flats).<br><br><img rel="lightbox" src="http://www.accrete.com/p-tgl/AwdVan/TGL_2010-07PaintedHillsOR.jpg" class="bbc_img"><br><br>On "Living" in a regular body van? If it was just one of us it could be done if the interior was done creatively. We can sleep, cook, rest, bathe in ours...but not all at once. You can always sleep/rest AND use bathroom/toilet. But cooking must pull out a small module from under the bed platform. The passenger seat swivels rearward and makes a nice place to chill out or eat for one.<br><br>Are we happy with the space in the RB van we have? Yes. And would do it again rather than the EB. The extra couple feet would not really do much for us in daly/living practicality since we like to be outdoors as much as possible. AND our meals are typically simple cook-in-bag meals (Mountain House and similar, we have a menu of these meals that exceeds over 2 dozen types of main courses. Lots of variety. And all you need to do is boil water and pour in bag. These meals can be found a places like Wallmart/Target and most nice grocery store chains. Our local Fred Meyer usually has a spring 2 for 1 sale which brings the price down to about $1.50 per person!). And IMO, for the two of us, a $2.50 per head meal is a good price and shelf life is ~5 years and practically zero weight/storage space per meal. So part of what your needs are in the van set up will be lifestyle choices. We chose to Keep It Simply Simple : )<br><br>On the Sprinter van. We looked at them first. BUT for us, after all the research, we did not want to risk the possibility of being in TimBuckToo and have a widget go out and not have a dealer in that town to fix it. With a Chevy or Ford, any town on a map will have someone ready/able to do quality repairs on the rig. Our Chevy van has the same interior volume as a RB Sprinter high top at nearly half the price including the price of installing the fiberglass top.<br><br>Also, our fully loaded van conversion...ready for 10 days before re-supply comes in about 400lbs under the rigs GVWR of 7300lbs, and with a CVWR of 12,000lbs gives us enough wiggle room to pull our little <a href="http://www.parkliner.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">fiberglass parkliner TT</a> at ~2500lb on our adventures for a Bed &amp; Breakfast on wheels <img rel="lightbox" src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="bbc_img"><br><br>Best wishes on your build!<br>Thom<br><br>

 

[MrNoodly]

A hightop can be added to any van. Being able to stand makes a big difference for fulltime living.<br><br>Here's a source for several styles and heights.<br><br>http://www.fiberine.com/GVMR_Inc/Full_Van_Size_Top.html

 

[accrete]

Yuppers on the tops : )<br>We have the <a href="http://www.fiberine.com/GVMR_Inc/Full_Van_Size_Top.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Fiberine 24" Bubble Top</a> and love it...we have ~5'10" standing room with the custom headliner in ours (interior by <a href="http://www.vanspecialties.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Van Specialties</a>) Here is a picture of ours in the VS lot before installation.<br><br><img rel="lightbox" src="http://www.accrete.com/p-tgl/AwdVan/TGL_WEB24inchFiberineTop.jpg" class="bbc_img"><br><br>We even figured out a stowable shower stall...if you are creative with design, sky is the limit...even in a Regular Body Van.

 

[Simran]

I love my hi top!!!

Gus

 

[Mike]

Can someone give a ballpark price on purchase and installation of a hightop?<br><br><br>&nbsp; Mike

 

[accrete]

When we purchased our fiberine 24" bubble top in fall of 2010 the price came to $2530 installed by Van Specialties (i keep all receipts). We've been happy with the upfit and quality.<br><br>The purchase price of our chevy 1500 awd van back then was $27K, and with all the mods (roof/interior) i have receipts for ~$35K... <br><br>There was no way we could have a Sprinter for anything less than $48K at that time...and then we would still be putting another 6K into interior upfit. . . and paying a service shop (when we could find one!) $350 for an oil change. PASS.

 

[Mike]

Thanks alot Accrete for your info. It will help me make some decisions.<br><br><br><br>&nbsp; Mike

 

[MK7]

Hi, What are your thoughts about extended vans? My initial thoughts were that I would like to have the largest cargo van possible but with a small engine for fuel economy.&nbsp;

<br><br>If you look at the MPG posted by, you'll see that big vans with 6 cyl gets worse mileage than the same van with a V8.<br><br>http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2000_Ford_Econoline.shtml<br><br>Because that 6-cyl is working extra hard to get all of that weight moving from a stop.&nbsp; Even when already cruising on the highway, it's gets worse MPG. <br><br>And these are bare bone cargo vans that are extremely light compared to a passenger van. Conversion vans are even heavier than passenger ones. Now factor in all the stuff you'll be hauling since it's going to be your permanent home. MPG is going to be horrible in a V6 vs. V8. Reliability should suffer too as you'll be revving that V6 much higher in the RPM's in all types of driving as compared to a V8. <br><br>Some other models does list the V6 as being 1-2 MPG better, but again, as an empty cargo van and not loaded to the max. <br><br>

 

[MK7]

That hightop is nice, but $2500 installed...ouch. Then there's paint, $300-800?<br><br>I'd look for a van already with that extra high, hightop (although very rare) or just a used conversion van already with an average hightop.

 

[travel]

$2500 get a high top added is actually pretty good considering the cost of materials and labor. I have an Astro and remember readings somewhere that it cost $5000 for a high top. Maybe there's more to installing one on an Astro, or that on in particular had other goodies with it.&nbsp;<br><br>Back to the regular vs extended debate... I've owned and driven LOTS of vans: full size, minivans, gas, diesel, cargo, 7,8,12 and 15 passenger, Ford, Dodge, GMC and Chevy. If you're used to driving a larger vehicle, it's easy to adapt. If you're going from a compact car to a minivan, for some people that can seem scary. I've had people tell me they thought a Honda Accord sedan was "too big" after having driven a Civic or Corolla.&nbsp;<br><br>The older full size Dodge vans (the ones based on the 1970s design, and NOT the Sprinter) and Ford Econolines, as someone already mentioned, retain the shorter wheelbase and add the space by way of extending the body aft of the rear wheels. This keeps a tighter turning radius - if there actually is such a thing when you drive a full size van, lol! But, you get a bit more "back swing" - meaning that the body has more of a&nbsp;tendency&nbsp;to swing outwards in turns, so that might be an issue in narrow lanes and heavy traffic or parking in tight spaces. The GM vans tend to have a longer wheelbase, which gives a smoother ride and better looking proportions, but you'll need to allow a bit more space for turns so the back wheels don't run over curbs.<br><br>Given the choice between gas and diesel, I'd take diesel. But not if I plan on making many short trips. Those aren't good for any engine, but especially so for diesels. And when diesels need fixing, they cost more to fix and not all mechanics can work on them. But, they need fixing less often. And you need to adjust your driving habits a bit - no high revs, know how to wait for the glow plugs, watch exhaust gas temps on long, steep hills, etc. Unless you're going for a really old diesel, it will probably be a turbo diesel. One more thing to potentially go wrong, but well worth it for the extra power it will give you. Otherwise, a small gas V8 should be fine.<br><br>As for space, I think the more the better. An extended van may not fit into all parking spaces as well as a regular length. Some of the newer parking lots are making shorter and narrower parking spaces as today's cars tend to be smaller. But, I'd gladly take any amount of extra space. Sometimes a few inches more space can make all the difference. I'm finding that with my Astro minivan. A full size extended van for van dwelling would seem huge to me! But in the end, you're still living in a van, not a 40 foot bus based Class A motorhome. Got to draw the line somewhere I guess.

 

[MK7]

The short Dodge with a V8 seems to be a nice, smaller size. It's a little bigger than an Astro, but still smaller than a full size van. The headroom is definitely a few inches higher than an Astro with a hightop. The V8 over the Astro's V6 would be a big plus, as I bet the gas mileage may be better on the Dodge w/a V8 once the van is loaded up with vandwelling stuff to the max.

 

[rokguy]

<EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">I think everyone here knows I'm partial to the Diesel, would never go back to buying a petrol anything 4, 6 or V8.</SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">Mechanical diesels are super reliable, when they started loosing their reliability is when they started electrolising them (is that a word ?) with ECM's (computers)</SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">Anything mechanical that not maintained runs the risk of epensive repairs gas or diesel.</SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">There is also alot of misinformation about biofuels as the fuel companies with have you believe it is evil. Biodiesel is used everywhere throughout the rest of the world. In fact &nbsp;Volvo, Scania, Mercedes and some japanese&nbsp;truck manufacturers&nbsp;are recommending using it in their heavies. </SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">The key to any biofuel is to ween your vehicle onto it, bringing up the % of veg oil to diesel. My three trucks, genset&nbsp;and yacht run on blends anything upto B95 (My max)(which is 95% veg oil 5% diesel.)</SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">Though with a kit SVO (B100 straight veg oil) is well used. Bio fuels will act in the reverse to diesel a small percentage of diesel allows easy start up and lubrication of injectors etc, the veg oil in the blend burns clean, decarbonising the engine.</SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">Above is the reason some people have problems with biodiesel, it will clean internal components and fuel lines, filters,&nbsp;tanks etc and unless kept clean loose dirt will clog injectors.</SPAN></STRONG></EM><BR><EM><STRONG><SPAN style="COLOR: #888888">Geoff</SPAN></STRONG></EM>

 

[David]

Something&nbsp;else&nbsp;to look at, is&nbsp;diesel&nbsp;cost is a lot more per gal, at least here on the east coast. I think it levels out more on the west coast, but here in New England&nbsp;diesel&nbsp;is about 30-40 cents more than premium unleaded.<br><br>Another thing on the repair side.. It's hard to get a good tally, but there are loads of complaints about the early 6.0 Ford's around the net. They seem to have gotten better around 05 but if you read the forums most people don't like the 6.0's. 7.3 is the way to go if you get a Ford&nbsp;diesel&nbsp; but they are hard to find from what I've seen tat don't already have a million miles.<br><br>I've been trying to find a good E350 cargo van and it's very hard to find one up here that has side barn doors and isn't already 100k+&nbsp;mileage. I'm really looking for a 4x4 but they are next to&nbsp;impossible&nbsp;to come across around here as a newer van. I've found two 2005's so far and both have been the 6.0's which I wasn't too&nbsp;interested&nbsp;in.

 

[David]

Something else I can mention, I used to have a 3/4 ton extended Ford van that I used for a old business. It had the 6 cyl in it and it was very under powered on the highway. It was ok around town, but any time I hit the interstate I wished it had a v8. Had a Chevy non&nbsp;extended&nbsp;that was the same.. It was much better around town than the ford but just as bad on the highway..<br><br>As a side note the Chevy was more&nbsp;comfortable&nbsp;to drive for some reason. Seemed easier to handle, but I don't know if the&nbsp;difference&nbsp;was due to the Ford being the extended and not.

 

[travel]

I agree, the smaller (older) Dodge (not the Sprinter) with a V8 would be a good choice. Good size, easy to fit in smaller parking spaces, and a bit more interior room than an Astro. Probably similar fuel economy but with V8 power. Of course, there are also V6 Dodge vans too, but at least the possibility is there. With an Astro, you could not factory order a V8, unless someone swaps in a 350 V8, which I hear work quite nicely.<br><br>Deep down, I'm a diesel fan too. Unfortunately, the older Dodge vans and Astros did not come with diesels. I've driven several GM Savanna/Express vans (late 90s, 2000 model) with the regular diesel (pre-Duramax) as well as several Ford Econoline diesels too, and I have to say, the drive really well, good power and torque and decent fuel economy for the size of vehicle. I've personally owned a 1986 Volkswagen Jetta diesel, but&nbsp;naturally&nbsp;aspirated, not the turbo-diesel. For a light weight car, it was OK, but definitely better in the later years with a turbo diesel or the TDi. And I also had a 60 series Toyota Land Cruiser wagon diesel, also just naturally aspirated, not a turbo. The Land Cruiser was a 1984 model, very basic, no electronics. <br><br>I know people will say they are better that way without all the electronic stuff, and they don't make them like they used to. But, I personally like the newer stuff with all the electronics. With a few&nbsp;exceptions&nbsp;(like ford 6.0 diesel) I find them to have better quality control, they last longer and require less maintenance. I am NOT a handyman, and cannot and will not work on engines. When I had my Land Cruiser, and it needed servicing on the diesel engine, no matter how basic, I had trouble finding someone to work on such an outdated engine, not to mention the fact that many mechanics don't have the skills to work on diesels. Here in the US and Canada, diesels are not nearly as common or as well respected as in Europe and most other parts of the world. It's only been in the last 10 to 15 years that they've become popular, and mostly in full size pickups, vans and compact Volkswagen cars. <br><br>Given the choice though, I would gladly take a diesel over a gasser. But, diesels are not as common, they're more&nbsp;expensive&nbsp;to purchase (even used), tend to have higher miles, if they're a good price, they might be at the point where they need some extensive work, and they cost a lot more to repair than a gas engine, not to mention, it can be harder to find a diesel mechanic. And... buying diesel is often more expensive than gas. At least diesel engines are more fuel&nbsp;efficient&nbsp; and even better if you can get free used WVO (waste vegetable oil). When I had my diesel Jetta and Land Cruiser, I was really excited to run then on WVO and get the Greasecar kit, but never got around to it. I'll have a diesel again, but for now, I have no choice but to stick with what I've got... a gas powered V6 Astro.