The "Social Contract"

[Van Man Dave]

I've been thinking a lot about society and the "social contract".

Many people will say we are all obligated to fulfill certain obligations regarding our "debt to society".

Does anyone have any insight or beliefs into this subject they would like to share?

Would someone become a de-facto member of a society, merely based upon the location of their birth?

My position is that a society is a group of like minded people, wherein an individual has the right to choose wether to be a part of said society.  

If one chooses not to be a part of a society, should they also be relieved of the burden of this "contract"?

Just some random morning thoughts I wanted to share.

VMD

 

[Rico]

Interesting thought. But don't confuse society with community[emoji3]

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[wanderingfreeman]

I never signed any such contract. I take care of me, you take care of you. If we AGREE to help each other, that is great. Don't expect me to take care of you just because you convert O2 to CO2.
King James Bible
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Notice, Paul says "would not" not "could not". We should help those who; through no fault of their own; cannot. However, for those who "will not", hunger can be a great motivator.

 

[John61CT]

What goes around comes around.

No man is an island.

 

[lenny flank]

Humans are social animals. Like wolves or chimps. Even those of us who live by ourselves in the desert, are completely dependent upon human society for everything they have.

 

[Charlotte's Web]

'What goes around comes around.  No man is an island."

A lot of truth in few words.  Or, to paraphrase a Zen precept:
       Participate joyfully in the sorrows of the world.

Charlotte

 

[HaidaBoy]

Independent living in a totally interdependent universe is proving to be quite challenging.

 

[slynne]

Re: "My position is that a society is a group of like minded people, wherein an individual has the right to choose wether to be a part of said society.  If one chooses not to be a part of a society, should they also be relieved of the burden of this "contract"?"

I am not sure about that. Is not the USA a society? Are we a group of like minded people? I guess we are like minded in that we all agree that we will resolve our differences through a system of law which we all accept. I absolutely agree that if one chooses not to be a part of society, they should be relieved of both the obligations and the benefits of the society. I even am not entirely ok that the US government charges people a fee to renounce their citizenship but I guess if you run off to a foreign country, what are they going to do if you just informally renounce and don't pay the fee? I guess it depends on how much money you have and where you keep it. *shrug*

 

[John61CT]

You of course need to find a country that will accept you and meet their requirements for citizenship first, not an easy thing.

If you do not officially renounce, then the US will continue to expect you to fulfill its obligations like paying taxes and child support, jury duty etc, and apply its sanctions for non-compliance if and when it can.

None of which may be a big deal for you if you never return on a tourist visa.

But all this is legal, borders etc, to me barely relevant to the OP.

My tribe transcends borders, while yours may be an outlaw gang.

We make our beds, then we have to lie in them. Being truly alone is to me a very sad choice, close to how I'd feel about a healthy person choosing suicide.

 

[rm.w/aview]

Society is a concept that can be viewed from various angles, and no matter your viewpoint or lifestyle, you'll find yourself within a society that has a predetermined code of conduct.

 

[geogentry]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]A very thought provoking question. It did cause me to contemplate your overall thoughts and the stance of your conclusions.[/font]​

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]First I want to establish that a society would be a group of people who have a shared territory, interaction and culture. [/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]This does seem straight forward in all respects except for the word ‘culture’. This seems, generally, to be practices involved in everyday existence shared by a people in a particular place or time.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The answer to your first question would be yes. You initially become a member of society upon birth. The location of your birth and initial years of your life would determine the particular culture you experience.[/font]​

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You could choose not to be part of a society. You could forgo interaction with people becoming what some call antisocial. You could adopt a culture that is different from the one in which you were raised. The difficulty would lie in removing yourself from the territory.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Not being under the burden, or obligation, to the social contract requires you to also remove yourself from the territory of this society. Because a social contract is something that a group of people, a society, have all agreed to cooperate in a specific manner for the greater benefit of the group.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]So you could forgo interaction with other people, you could adopt actions that are not the same as the people of a society. But you would still be subject to the social contract of the society within whose boundaries you live.[/font]

 

[geogentry]

Even those of us who live by ourselves in the desert, are completely dependent upon human society for everything they have.

Isn't that dependency a matter of choice?  You don;t NEED the things that society has - you WANT them.  And so you choose to be dependent.

 

[rm.w/aview]

There were various groups, societies, that I had in mind with my earlier post, and your thought that one needs to remove oneself from the territory brought some to mind... the Amish, the Mormons, the homeless, gangs, MC members (1%ers). At first glance, none removed themselves from the territory, simply taking there society where ever they happen to be.

 

[Van Man Dave]

Dave, could you expand on this? I'm not sure what the question is. What are the requirements to fulfill the obligations of this contract. How could an individual not be a part of any society?

Guy

 I'm really curious in a general sense.  I figure I am a member of the human society at least......

 

[Van Man Dave]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]A very thought provoking question. It did cause me to contemplate your overall thoughts and the stance of your conclusions.[/font]​

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]First I want to establish that a society would be a group of people who have a shared territory, interaction and culture. [/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]This does seem straight forward in all respects except for the word ‘culture’. This seems, generally, to be practices involved in everyday existence shared by a people in a particular place or time.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The answer to your first question would be yes. You initially become a member of society upon birth. The location of your birth and initial years of your life would determine the particular culture you experience.[/font]​

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You could choose not to be part of a society. You could forgo interaction with people becoming what some call antisocial. You could adopt a culture that is different from the one in which you were raised. The difficulty would lie in removing yourself from the territory.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Not being under the burden, or obligation, to the social contract requires you to also remove yourself from the territory of this society. Because a social contract is something that a group of people, a society, have all agreed to cooperate in a specific manner for the greater benefit of the group.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]So you could forgo interaction with other people, you could adopt actions that are not the same as the people of a society. But you would still be subject to the social contract of the society within whose boundaries you live.[/font]

Very well said, especially from the cultural standpoint. I appreciate your input!

 

[lenny flank]

Isn't that dependency a matter of choice?  You don;t NEED the things that society has - you WANT them.  And so you choose to be dependent.

Nope--I *need* food, clothing and shelter. And unless I am living in a cave and eating roots, all of those things come from other people. Everything any of us has--from our vehicle to our underwear--was made by somebody else. We are utterly and completely dependent upon others for all of those things.

Even the Neandertals, with nothing but stone tools and furs, couldn't live alone.

Humans are social animals. The very notion that anyone anywhere is "independent", is silly on the face of it.

 

[John61CT]

People trying to rationalize

"I've got mine Jack, now you just f%#k off"

with a "logical philosophy" so they can pretend not to feel guilty about being selfish even evil

 

[Motrukdriver]

Debt to society is more along the lines of you were punished from breaking a law somewhere and you paid the debt by doing what ever the law required. A fine or jail time etc. I'll leave that one alone. Social contract of course changes where ever you are in the world. We don't have the same social contract as folks that live in the Middle East or Asia or Africa etc. That is fine and I like the way I was taught living in this country. I've been around the world and there are other places similar and places far different. I choose to live here in this country so therefore I shall abide by the social contract required. That said, I don't have to live in a town with neighbors on each side of me. I can choose to live out in the great outdoors and stay as far away from "civilized" life as I want. I prefer my aloneness and when I need social interaction with other humans I'll go into town and do just that. I'm not shy. I can strike up a conversation with anyone about anything. Once I've had my fill of social interaction (think old folks at McDonalds in the morning drinking coffee talking about what ever subject comes to mind) I can return to my aloneness. If I need a touch of the social contract yet don't want social interaction I can turn on the TV and watch the news or an interesting documentary. I find it awesome that we can live in a society that caters to pretty much anyone that wants to live as they choose... just don't break the laws or that whole debt to society comes into play.

 

[geogentry]

Nope--I *need* food, clothing and shelter. And unless I am living in a cave and eating roots, all of those things come from other people. Everything any of us has--from our vehicle to our underwear--was made by somebody else. We are utterly and completely dependent upon others for all of those things.

Even the Neandertals, with nothing but stone tools and furs, couldn't live alone.

Humans are social animals. The very notion that anyone anywhere is "independent", is silly on the face of it.

grow your own food.  weave your own clothes.  Build our own shelter.  Those NEEDS are then fulfilled without the dependency on anyone else.  If you live in a cave that is a choice rather than building your own shelter.  If you are eating roots then you are foraging.  You can forage other food stuffs.  If you do not that is choice also.  Choosing not to do those things yourself makes you dependent upon others to do it for you.  It really depends on what you think you need to be comfortable.  The basic necessities you can supply for yourself.  It is when you WANT more that you start to become dependent on others.  

As for companionship.  That is a need that varies by the person.  Some need it more some need it less.  But yes the average person does not do well unless they experience some form of interpersonal relationship.

 

[highdesertranger]

this whole thread is way to deep for my little pea brain. highdesertranger