The Ins & Outs of Diesel vs Gasoline?

[arctic cat]

This is about as good of advice as you can get. I wish I could thank your post twice.  Preventative maintenance, opening your hood once a week and once a day when traveling.  

    Only thing I'd add is to take a walk around your vehicle every time you fill up with gas and or first thing in the morning before hitting the road.  Pre trip inspections are required when driving a (CDL) commercial vehicle and it's every bit as worthy of doing in a personal vehicle as well.

Do these three things and your odds of breaking down are almost non existent.

Exactly, and for that matter you can go to Walmart buy a freaking bicycle and if you don't oil that chain, or make little adjustment here and there I will eventually catch up with you and leave you walking.   I have a friend of mine that used to own brand  new Land Rover, 50,000 miles down the road the engine completely cease to work.  He took it to the dealership and they refused the warranty?  You know why?   Not once he change the oil.  He argue that he did, but once they opened the valve cover of that engine, the sludge was like thick black tar.   Engine did not lied.   Now he have a car payment on a broken down vehicle.

 

[DannyB1954]

High Desert, My comments were not directed at you or your post. Doing a pretrip on my diesel didn't keep the cylinder from cracking, nor did it stop my buddies dual mass flywheel from frying, (that one cost him $1500 just for the flywheel), or his fuel pump underneath the intake manifold from failing, or his water separator from leaking diesel all over the top of his engine and down his exhaust manifolds. He literally put thousands into repairs. Another time his engine wasn't starting in the mornings unless he plugged in a block heater. Mechanics said both batteries bad. Then when it wouldn't start said the starter was lame, then it was the glow plug controller was bad, then they thought maybe it was the glowplugs or injectors. Finding a good diesel mechanic in every town isn't that easy.
I have a diesel, but I did so knowing and accepting the risks. That is all I am saying. let people know what the risks are not just how wonderful diesels are. With the higher cost of fuel in most places, higher maintenance costs, 5 gallon oil changes, primary and secondary fuel filters, Anti jelling additives for cold climates, etc. the saving qualities of a diesel are very debateable.
Then when somebody has one go to hell it is Oh they should have done their research on that engine, or the maintenance must have been lacking, or some other excuse. If someone asks about diesels, I am going to try to tell them the whole story. they are not the holy grail to economy or dependability. Things can go bad. Real bad. I am not saying all of them will tank, but know that you are taking a gamble, and maybe it is not a good gamble if you can not afford serious repair money.

 

[highdesertranger]

sure sounded like it was directed at me especially when you started with a quote from me. I think if someone doesn't know about the 6.0 ford they just plain didn't research anything, they just bought. again you are going to worse case, with 5 gallon oil changes, 6.2/6.5 same amount of oil as a 454 = 2 gallons, primary and secondary fuel filters, I have 6 fuel filters on my 454 there is a reason for multiple fuel filters. what happens when their gasser goes to hell are you trying to say gassers don't give up the ghost. you are not telling the whole story, you are telling them what you believe.

you had a bad experience that doesn't mean everyone has a bad experience, unless you buy a ford diesel after the 7.3. you had a problem with the 6.9, the fix was expensive because only a few 10k were made. the 6.2/6.5 millions were made, in fact they are still in production. production from 1982 to present. like I SAID you have to choose the right diesel. I am not telling anyone to buy a diesel, but I am not telling anyone not to. I do always advise against the newer computer controlled diesel, just as I advise against computer controlled cars. highdesertranger

 

[NeedAnEscape]

 I do always advise against the newer computer controlled diesel,  just as I advise against computer controlled cars.  highdesertranger

I don't mind EFI on gas vehicles, but with diesels you get a massive increase in maintenance costs by going to electronic injection vs mechanical injection. Then even with electronic controlled diesels, you have another massive increase in maintenance costs when they added DPFs and other emission controls. I wouldn't own an out of warranty modern diesel, but I'd love to have a van/truck with a Ford/International 7.3 IDI or GM 6.2/6.5.

 

[highdesertranger]

the thing you are missing is there is a massive increase in maintenance cost on computer controlled gassers. especially once you hit about the 15-20 year mark. I find them to be unreliable and hard to fix in the field.

take the serpentine belt system for example, sure the have many benefits but if you have a failure of any of your belt driven accessories you are DOA. plus beside your accessories you have a tensioner pulley and an idler pulley, 2 added parts to fail. so if you are out on a dirt track 100 miles to the closest shop what are you going to do. I find the older v-belt designs to be much more reliable. there is redundancy built into the system. with a v-belt system you would have to have multiple failures to leave you stuck, not one. my 2 cents. I am old school. highdesertranger

 

[NeedAnEscape]

The fuel economy improvements often make up for the increased maintenance costs on fuel injected gas vehicles, at least with the simpler stuff. Diesels saw very little MPG improvement from computers and the emission stuff (DPF, SCR, etc) means new ones often get worse mileage than older ones.

Field repairability is typically better the older you go, and that is true for more than just the engine.

 

[AngryVanMan]

Danny, I think everyone appreciates your concern, but your citing expensive repairs that do not happen to the average diesel owner "out of the blue" which would be the same as if I said you shouldn't buy a gasoline car because I had one guy that had a fuel leak and it burned to the ground, another one had a bad wiring harness that took 5 trips to the dealer to fix and over $2000 in parts thrown at it by incompetent dealer shop, or a freak timing chain failure on a road trip that "needed" a $3000 factory crate engine to repair.

Nearly every diesel owner (and many European car owners) knows about dual mass flywheels, which is why you either bite the bullet and change them with every clutch, 80-90k miles, which triples or quadruples the cost of doing the clutch each time, OR you switch to a solid flywheel on your first clutch job for 3 or $400 dollars and bask in the glory of cheaper maintenance and a little low RPM gear rattle.  Or you have an automatic, some of which are problematic, and some of which are pretty great.

You know how many cracked cylinders I've heard of?  I can't think of any other than your story offhand.  I've been on a lot of car and truck forums over the years and heard owners moaning over all sorts of stuff.  The average guy is not worried about catastrophic engine failure, just like most aren't budgeting for their car to burn to the ground in a freak accident - because both are extremely unlikely.  You got a quote for $8k for an engine, but a fresh rebuilt long block with a warranty is only a little over $3k, and takes about a day of shop labor time to swap.  Any independent shop with an engine crane can swap in a motor, and many would be happy to call around and price a running salvage motor if you are tight on cash and would like to save more money.  Bolting a diesel to the frame is the same as bolting a gas engine to the frame and costs the same in labor.

It's clear that experience colors each of our perceptions, but we can present the case of tidy maintenance and a DIY attitude that can save every meticulous owner real money, and you can relay all the horror stories that have given you pause however unlikely - it's good to know both things are possible, but one also has to weight the probability of each being applicable to their situation.  I think most can handle that responsibility.

 

[speedhighway46]

My Ford Excursion engine, a 7.3, has been flawless in its first 180,000 miles; regular oil changes every 5000 miles and a fuel filter change too.

The body by Ford? Replace both lockout front hubs; both front wheel drive knuckle joints; the Ford built oil pan; and some other stuff.

Ford should have built the vehicle as well as Navistar built the engine!

 

[arctic cat]

I have a 2004 Jeep Wrangler 4.0 Litter with a 5 Speed tranny. purchased with 0 miles on the odometer and now have 140,000 miles is 12 years old. Well maintained, zero leak or rust. I put a new clutch at 102,000. Not because it was bad. I did out precaution as is my policy to replace clutches at least 100,000 needed or not. While replacing the clutch I replace pressure plate, fly wheel, pilot bearing, throw out bearing. did the job myself and as of this day no problem. This jeep have been to from Alaska to the keys twice (my expo vehicle) is solid. Now as is aging I do more preventive maintenance. Example antifrezze exchange every year, brake fluid which by the way is hygroscopic (meaning it retain or attract water) I change it every 2 years. Why? because I don't need to be coming down a mountain pass and the brake get hot and the water in the fluid boil and there I go down a cliff. Is called reaching out to the problem before the problem reach me. Also listening to your car. You know your car better than anyone else. So I listen and if something don't sound right or feel right I don't wait until the issue become a real issue, I addressed it before it does, problems don't fix themselves. Some vehicles of course are lemons, sometime the whole brand or just a specific one in a bunch, not a whole lot you can do about.

Whether your house is regular house or a car, there is always maintenance to be done. Some people choose do be proactive and perform maintenance or you can be reactive and perform repairs. Both cost money, no way out one cost more and the other cost less. Some people choose to buy a new vehicle. My Jeep as an example is coming up for an differential over haul. Only the rear need to be overhaul, but my policy dictate both. It's expensive, but is a lot cheaper than buying a brand new Jeep.

Another thing you can do to mitigate repair is to make an escrow fund Example I have several vehicles and insurance is expensive I pay for my insurance in full because is cheaper than making monthly payment. Mitigate this cost every by I putting an amount of money to the side so have the money is ready when the time come. I do the same for tires and many other things and that included repairs. Everyone is different but that how deal with things like this.

 

[TrainChaser]

Thanks for all of the info, Guys! I wasn't really planning on buying a diesel, but I was curious about them. A person hears a lot of stuff over the years, and it's nice to be able to put some of the bits and pieces together. Except for electricity... that's pure magic and will always remain so, to me.