The GOLD secret for power AND stealth? (It's not solar.)

[Jack]

I was watching a YouTube video from a woman on the east coast who is a solo van dweller and says she doesn't have solar power because being stealth is of the utmost priority for her.  While reading the comments, there was a very interesting one I wanted to ask you experienced folks about.  

I've tried copying and pasting the comment here for two days now, and even typing it all out by hand, but, for some reason, it will not let me post the thread!  (Mods have been helpful but we can't figure it out.)  So, I'm going to try another approach and summarize it.

He worked as a private investigator for insurance fraud cases from 1980 to 2000.  No solar back then and they needed reliable power while being 100% stealth.  Surveillances would last from just before sunup to just after sundown and had to power everything from heating, air-con, cameras, TV monitors, etc., They went to an auto electrical shop that came up with the following that, this guy said worked for his fleet of 35 vans without a single problem:

From the main battery, there was a wire that went to a 2"x2"x4" converter box.  A #10 cable went to a marine battery mounted underneath the van.  As they drove, the main battery charged the secondary battery and kept it charged all day.  He said they only had cigarette outlets back then but that there are devices that can adapt.

Main battery to converter.  Converter to auxiliary battery.  Battery to outlet mounted inside the van.  The converter blocks any attempt to pull power from the main battery, so there were no battery drains.

He said to think about it.  Federal agents do surveillance every day, even back then.  They had to have reliable power somehow.  The comment concluded with this, "You just learned a GOLD secret!"

So, is it a GOLD secret to having power while attracting attention and remaining stealth?  I'm so new to all of this that I rely on the experts.  Since I'm going full time and long term, I want plenty of power but the last thing I want to do is draw attention to the van, especially at night.

 

[lenny flank]

There are indeed lots of folks who have "dual battery" setups. The biggest difficulty with them, for me, is that you have to drive a fair amount to keep the house battery charged--since I spend most of my time parked, that makes it unworkable for me.

They're also a bit limited in their output, so they work only for relatively small loads.

 

[Jack]

There are indeed lots of folks who have "dual battery" setups. The biggest difficulty with them, for me, is that you have to drive a fair amount to keep the house battery charged--since I spend most of my time parked, that makes it unworkable for me.

They're also a bit limited in their output, so they work only for relatively small loads.

This guy said, "We needed vehicles that could  (must be) stealthy, able to carry a lot of equipment, tripods, still and video cameras, TV monitors small heating and ac equipment.   Our surveillance’s lasted from before sunup to after sundown.  We needed power for all those devices..."  

That sounds like a lot of equipment to keep charged, daily, for very long periods of time.  It must be possible somehow.  ???  I'll have to look into how to achieve this without having to rely on driving across state lines on a daily basis!

 

[lenny flank]

I can guarantee they were NOT running all that from their vehicle's starter battery.

My guess is that they have a big battery bank, which they recharge using shore power.

 

[Jack]

I can link to the video, but the video had nothing to do with it.  It was someone's comment on that YouTube video.  The comment was 5 months old.  Here's the link though - the video is called, Van Life WITHOUT solar/ and what I use instead

The commenters name is Pogey Bait and it's the first comment under the video.  If this IS a viable and reliable source of power as it's described, I'd like to consider it.  If it's not, I'd like to know so I can cross the possibility off my list and move on.  Thanks everyone.

 

[Almost There]

Jack - What Pogey Bait neglected to mention was how he kept the auxiliary (house) battery charged.

I can guarantee that at the end of the shift of surveillance the van was brought back to the office and plugged in to a battery charger for overnight charging.

Yes, they carried a lot of equipment, but I'm pretty sure that all of it wasn't running ALL the time, only as necessary. If they were using more power than the battery allowed for they would either a) kill the battery or b) add more batteries.

I am working this summer and for most days of work my van is parked in the parking lot. The fridge and the freezer run all day. At night I'm back at my campsite with the van plugged in. The battery charger brings the batteries (450 AH of them ) back up to full overnight. I'd run out of power if I didn't plug in and I'd almost certainly ruin my batteries in short order if they weren't satisfactorily charged each night because the freezer is a bit of a power hog.

Yes, you can have power without solar! No you can't keep running things off a battery without having some way of putting the charge back in to the battery. Use more than the battery can give - you end up with dead batteries.

Depending on the type, style, size and age of battery, is how much power you can drain off them before they need recharging.

I get away with no solar here in the summer (northern climate, lots of smoke from forest fires) by plugging in to a power source each night. In the winter I use a combination of solar and generator.

Basically, the standard routine is:

-figure out what you absolutely must have power for - check with us for wisdom...
- size your battery bank to fit the need
- size your solar and battery charger to fit the battery bank
- make sure you  have at least 2 dependable ways of charging the battery bank unless you are sure you're planning on plugging in to shore power each night.

I have: solar, generator, solenoid (charging while running) and only don't use at least one of those when I can plug in to shore power for at least 5 hours each day.

 

[RVTravel]

 Pogey Bait 5 months ago (edited) Years ago (1980-2000) I owned a P.I. Firm which our primary purpose was surveillance.   (Insurance fraud). We needed vehicles that could  (must be) stealthy, able to carry a lot of equipment, tripods, still and video cameras, TV monitors small heating and ac equipment.   Our surveillance’s lasted from before sunup to after sundown.  We needed power for all those devices so I went to a couple auto electrical shops.  Finally one came up with a proven power technique that stealth campers should all employ!   Off our main battery we had a short wire go to a small  (2”x2”x4”) converter box.  Then the mechanic sent a #10 cable to a marine battery which was mounted underneath our vans.  

 

[John61CT]

There is nothing special about such a setup. Batteries are not a source of power, they just store it.

What is missing is **how are they charging** the batteries.

Just driving around works great for cop cars, and others that have a good alternator / VR setup and drive around all day long, or at least keep the engine running.

Or trucks that have a pony generator / APU that runs while the engine is shut down.

Or ambulances, which plug into mains power when parked back at home base.

If none of those sources is available (or sufficient), then you need solar.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

The posted attachment does not give enough information to be very helpful, or as my Thermodynamics professor was fond of saying: "there is a lot of hand waving here".  He doesn't state important information like how many watts is being drawn and for how long, how big the house battery is, nor how long they drive.  He does imply they drive a lot: "As we drove, the main battery sent power to the secondary battery and kept it charged all day".  So they are driving enough to replace what they use.

The 'converter box' sounds like a small ACR or magnetic switch.

 

[Jack]

Jack - What Pogey Bait neglected to mention was how he kept the auxiliary (house) battery charged.

I can guarantee that at the end of the shift of surveillance the van was brought back to the office and plugged in to a battery charger for overnight charging.

Basically, the standard routine is:

-figure out what you absolutely must have power for - check with us for wisdom...
- size your battery bank to fit the need
- size your solar and battery charger to fit the battery bank
- make sure you  have at least 2 dependable ways of charging the battery bank unless you are sure you're planning on plugging in to shore power each night.

I have: solar, generator, solenoid (charging while running) and only don't use at least one of those when I can plug in to shore power for at least 5 hours each day.

I've learned so much from you.  Thanks for this post.

 

[Jack]

There is nothing special about such a setup. Batteries are not a source of power, they just store it.

What is missing is **how are they charging** the batteries.

Just driving around works great for cop cars, and others that have a good alternator / VR setup and drive around all day long, or at least keep the engine running.

Or trucks that have a pony generator / APU that runs while the engine is shut down.

Or ambulances, which plug into mains power when parked back at home base.

If none of those sources is available (or sufficient), then you need solar.

Thanks John.  I understood the guy to say that he charged his auxiliary batteries as he drove.  But, from what I'm learning here, it's simply not enough... or the full story.  

So much for a GOLD secret, huh?

So, basically, there really isn't any way to remain 100% stealth and have consistent power, right?  When people see solar panels, they assume someone's in the van.  Generators are loud and attract attention.  Auxiliary batteries only last a short time and need to be plugged in overnight.  

My concern about going unnoticed is for when I'm parked in cities.  I'll just have to find better ways to park in them.  When I'm out in rural areas, I don't anticipate too many problems.  Thanks for the help, John.

 

[Fivealive]

Isolator setups are very common, as others stated you have to drive around a lot for them to really be effective alone. Best is to use a combination of isolator + solar.

 

[lenny flank]

I have just one solar panel on the roof. I have found that, since the van sits so high and it's hard to see it, most people don't even seem to notice it. And I suspect many who do see it think it is some sort of cargo rack.

 

[John61CT]

Isolator setups are very common, as others stated you have to drive around a lot for them to really be effective alone. Best is to use a combination of isolator + solar.

The functionality of isolating / combining, does only that, not provide any charging power.

It can be used with solar, generator, alternator or mains, or any combination.

 

[tx2sturgis]

For recharging batteries in vehicles that are using mobile electronics, there are four practical ways we can do it, sometimes using more than one method:

Recharging from the engine alternator.

Recharging with a fuel powered generator.

Recharging with PV solar.

Recharging from shore power.

(there are other methods such as wind power, heat-conversion, hydro, etc, but they aren't practical for most of us)

So, there is nothing about this knowledge that is 'gold'.

The guy put 'bait' in his youtube name for a reason, I suspect.

 

[Jack]

Oh well. It was worth asking just for the education. Shore power is a nice option to have but, unless you get it from a campground, or from parking at friends or family members, there aren't any other places you can hook up to it is there?

 

[Zil]

Keep in mind, stealth is an illusion and They know you are there. Otherwise; The only draw back to my solar panels ., They make my van too tall for parking garages.

 

[John61CT]

there aren't any other places you can hook up to it is there?

Depends how social you are, never hurts to ask.

Also portable powerpak in a backpack, library, coffee shop, anyplace people plug in laptops, no one knows you're sucking down 120A

 

[John61CT]

Unless you blow a breaker

A charger that lets you de-rate is helpful.