Strut issue?

[SoulRaven]

Got another question for you guys.

So, in getting my 'new' wheels, I was told I need an alignment, got a computerized printout demonstrating how they're out of alignment and such. I was also told I most definitely need the strut replaced. Wear on two of the old tires of jagged cuts into the tread were said to evidence this:

My dear old dad is insisting up and down that there's no way there's a problem with the strut. Can any of you tell me if the tire evidences this sufficiently or should I get a second opinion?

 

[GotSmart]

Without climbing under the van I would agree with the tire guys.  

Perhaps D.O.D. should be shown the van on the lift so he can see how loose the strut is. Modern vehicles have different problems than the Flintstone era ones that D.O.D. is used to.  

 

[ccbreder]

Park on a firm surface. Push down very heavily on the front of your vehicle and let it bounce up. If it doesn't stop the bounce right when it comes back to the starting height, the struts are bad. The more bounces, the more worn the struts. Same for vehicles with shocks. Struts are shocks combined with the springs, and used as the upper "ball joint" steering point. New struts are really replacing the shock/steering part. Get a second opinion, but your vehicle will drive much better with new struts and a alignment. Your new tires will last, also.

 

[MikeRuth]

Have you ever noticed a wheel seemly hopping up and down on a car or truck while your cruising the road?
I have, see it more often than I should, Ive seen wheels bounce several inches and of course cars that move around the lane like a boat.

If you can have a friend follow you around and look at the wheels as you drive along, the should look firmly planted to the ground and no bounce.
Better yet two friends and a video camera.

As mentioned above while parked give the body a big push down, and the return should be controlled, raises up and stops. any bounce and there worn out!.

 

[highdesertranger]

while going over a speed bump or a dip(vee gutter) your vehicle should bounce once, no more. if it bounces more than once your struts/shocks are bad. it's very important to also always replace in pairs, ie both front ones at the same time. highdesertranger

 

[SternWake]

If this is a Dodge Van, Dodge vans have Strut rods which connect from frame to the lower control arm of the front suspension. The length of this strut rod and its bushing affect caster.  When worn and backing up and braking in reverse, there is usually a clunk when nearing a stop. 

If a Dodge Van it has Shocks, not struts on all 4 corners, replaceable separately from the coil spring. The fronts are One bolt on top, two in the bottom, and nearly as simple to replace as it sounds to replace them.



Strut rod bushings  are rather easy to replace and are rather inexpensive bushings and are located where the strut rod meets the frame bracket. Cannot miss it..  

These bushings can fail, but appear perfect on visual inspection.  Only on removing the bolt and washer can one see if the internals of the bushing are shredded, or has allowed the strut rod to migrate from center.

'Struts'  AFAIK, and I am not seriously experienced mechanic, are a shock and spring combination in one mechanical unit.  

I don't know what Vehicle Bitty has, but the strut rods, vs struts can be very different. 

Here is a pic of my low mileage Moog 'problem solver' strut rod bushings:

  If Strut rod  bushings are worn and in place for too long, this metal hole becomes Oval.  You do not want your hole Oval.

Oooooh That's what she said!!!!

Sorry.

Worn strut rod bushings can cause clunking over bumps, as well as pulling to one side or the other when braking hard.

When I replaced the low mileage Moog black rubber Strut Rod bushings for the red polyurethane Energy Suspension bushings, it was night and day difference when braking.

If the strut rod bushings are worn and crush too much when braking, it will cause abnormal tire wear, especially if the back brakes are not adjusted correctly and working hard enough.  It also is harder on the control arm bushings as the whole suspension is allowed to flex too much when braking.

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-5-7103R-Strut-Bushing/dp/B000JK60N2

If you have a Dodge van, replace these, if you have not yet done so:

http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-5-7103R-Strut-Bushing/dp/B000JK60N2.

I heard Poly bushings squeak and transmit too much road vibration and was leery of using these on the Strut rods, but absolutely no regrets, should have done it sooner.  I used Syl-glide on the poly bushings. No squeaks

If the vehicle in question is not a Dodge van, apologies for meandering off topic, but perhaps it will help someone with a Dodge van and an annoying clunk or a pulling when braking hard.

 

[ramblingvanman]

I am sorry, what type of vehicle do you have? I cannot determine for sure from those pics if you have strut issues or not. Can you tell me exactly what the print out said? How sure are you about the honesty of the mechanics in the shop? Be aware that the mechanic can change the parameters of the program to reflect what he wants you to believe. The more computerized the alignment system, the more they can play with the parameters to make you think what they want you to think.
Slowly and lightly run your hands along the surface and edges of the tires. How do they feel? Scalloped with dips and depressions? Could be struts/shocks or could be tires out of balance. Also could be bad springs, but that is rare and shocks/struts would be much more likely. Do the edges feel "sharp" and "feathered"? This indicates toe wear. You could just need an adjustment, commonly referred to as a "toe and go" alignment, or you could need tie rod ends. Does one outer edge feel real smooth compared to the other? Could be camber wear. Again could be adjustment, or could be ball joints/king pins on older trucks/vans. Ask them if the tires show caster wear. If they say "yes", run do not walk from that shop. Caster can be out of adjustment but it does not wear the wires. Caster usually shows up as a shimmy in the steering wheel.

 

[Almost There]

RVM - it's a 2004 Toyota Sienna.

 

[ramblingvanman]

RVM - it's a 2004 Toyota Sienna.

Ok, thanks. One thing that may have been mentioned already. If you need a strut in the front, do both. Always do them in pairs. As best I can guess from the picture and nothing else, I would suspect a possible weak strut where that tire came from, but since the cracks seem more to one side than the other, I would look for a camber issue as well. Lower ball joint? Maybe?

Anyway, if you do need struts, I highly recommend YOU pay a mechanic to do it. The spring is under tremendous pressure and it can kill you if you make any mistakes taking it apart. It is not worth you life. Let a professional or someone with experience do it. Here is a YT vid demonstrating the process.

[video=youtube]

 

[SoulRaven]

Thanks so much, everyone!!

I tried to test the suspension as suggested, but I'm barely able to move it at all. I'm just over 90 pounds and not terribly strong, so I might not be able to manage that on my own. Attempting repairs on my own ain't happening, don't worry!

The mechanic who inspected the vehicle and told me I need to replace the struts and the shocks is not someone I would unilaterally trust. Normally I would take it to a mechanic that I actually trust, but I emailed him for a comparable quote and I still wouldn't be able to afford it, so I'm hesitant to waste more of his time. (I've already been to him twice before without paying a cent, his honest assessments have saved me a lot.) He also doesn't do alignments. I called around, and turns out there's a local college with an automative program, I've been in touch with them and they'd be willing to do the work on my van for the price of parts, but they don't cover these services until next quarter. So if it can wait, they said call back about mid-January and they should be able to fit me in.

I'm leaning towards just waiting it out until then?

 

[GotSmart]

Thanks so much, everyone!!

I tried to test the suspension as suggested, but I'm barely able to move it at all. I'm just over 90 pounds and not terribly strong, so I might not be able to manage that on my own. Attempting repairs on my own ain't happening, don't worry!

The mechanic who inspected the vehicle and told me I need to replace the struts and the shocks is not someone I would unilaterally trust. Normally I would take it to a mechanic that I actually trust, but I emailed him for a comparable quote and I still wouldn't be able to afford it, so I'm hesitant to waste more of his time. (I've already been to him twice before without paying a cent, his honest assessments have saved me a lot.) He also doesn't do alignments. I called around, and turns out there's a local college with an automative program, I've been in touch with them and they'd be willing to do the work on my van for the price of parts, but they don't cover these services until next quarter. So if it can wait, they said call back about mid-January and they should be able to fit me in.

I'm leaning towards just waiting it out until then?

By then two more tires would be destroyed if you keep driving it.

Figure $650 upper price to do both struts  2.4 hours labor plus parts.

 

[ccbreder]

When driving along a strait level roadway, come to a fast stop with the brakes. If the van does not dive or pull hard to either left or right, you should be ok waiting for the school. It would be a great learning experience for the students.

 

[SoulRaven]

By then two more tires would be destroyed if you keep driving it.

Figure $650 upper price to do both struts  2.4 hours labor plus parts.

Struts, shocks, and an alignment are what I was told was needed. Lowest price I got for the work sans alignment is $860 from the mechanic I trust. This would have me in debt for at least 10 months. I just spent any wiggle room I had on tinting, tires, and insurance, I'll be in debt for the next few months, but if I go through with this work now I'll be in debt for at least the next year on the tightest possible budget to pay it off assuming nothing else unexpectedly goes wrong (which isn't the way my life tends to work out). The money just isn't there.

Now, I am (hopefully) selling a bunch of stuff at an upcoming community rummage sale, and if it's immediately essential I get this I might consider doing a public plea for people to consider paying a little extra for my stuff. This has slightly more dignity than simply begging for donations but I'm still loath to do it.

So you understand why I'm trying to get a handle on just how urgent the issue is. I certainly don't want to ruin the tires I just got, but neither do I want to enslave myself to debt or have myself begging for something non-urgent when I have a solution lined up further down the line. I'm working with limited options and trying to figure out the best way through.

When driving along a strait level roadway, come to a fast stop with the brakes.  If the van does not dive or pull hard to either left or right, you should be ok waiting for the school.  It would be a great learning experience for the students.

It seems to dive a bit, but not a whole lot?

 

[ramblingvanman]

IMO, I would wait for the school BUT I would severely limit my driving until then.

 

[GotSmart]

^^^  I agree.  ^^^

 

[SoulRaven]

I just heard back form the mechanic school today. They are ready to fit me in for the work next Wednesday, a week from today.

They only charge for parts, plus a $15 shop fee. Plan is to replace both front struts and both rear shocks, as well as an alignment.

Quoted price: $629 total. $197 each for front struts, $110 each for rear shocks.

I inquired and they said they basically don't have time to shop around for the cheapest deals on parts, they simply order it through a single supplier, but that I'm totally welcome to buy and bring my own. Since I've had other quotes to look at I KNOW the parts can be had for much cheaper, so I said to hold off on ordering the parts, I'm going to try to get them myself.

What do I need to know? Where are some good places to look? Unfortunately I didn't know all this stuff beforehand so long shipping times are out of the question. I'm thinking i'll start with a phoone call or visit to AutoZone and consult with them. Any other suggestions, please throw them at me!

EDIT: Looks like I can get the parts new from AutoZone, KYB Excel brand, for $282.30 total, including tax. But I should order it within the next day or so to make sure it arrives on time. Is that good or can I do better?

 

[ldmccain]

www.rockauto.com
I almost always check here for parts.

 

[GotSmart]

www.rockauto.com
I almost always check here for parts.

X2

 

[LeeRevell]

I have seen motorcycle tires "chunking" like that, and it has been a tire issue - bad compound.  Certain companies had a rash of bad product a few years back.  It happens in even the top name brands.
But I am no "exspurt", and will defer to those who know better.

 

[GotSmart]

I just heard back form the mechanic school today. They are ready to fit me in for the work next Wednesday, a week from today.

They only charge for parts, plus a $15 shop fee. Plan is to replace both front struts and both rear shocks, as well as an alignment.

Quoted price: $629 total. $197 each for front struts, $110 each for rear shocks.

I inquired and they said they basically don't have time to shop around for the cheapest deals on parts, they simply order it through a single supplier, but that I'm totally welcome to buy and bring my own. Since I've had other quotes to look at I KNOW the parts can be had for much cheaper, so I said to hold off on ordering the parts, I'm going to try to get them myself.

What do I need to know? Where are some good places to look? Unfortunately I didn't know all this stuff beforehand so long shipping times are out of the question. I'm thinking i'll start with a phoone call or visit to AutoZone and consult with them. Any other suggestions, please throw them at me!

EDIT: Looks like I can get the parts new from AutoZone, KYB Excel brand, for $282.30 total, including tax. But I should order it within the next day or so to make sure it arrives on time. Is that good or can I do better?

Go for  it.   You save $350 and get the problem fixed.  You might save a little more, but this is a decent price for decent quality.