Step Van length?

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LucyImHome

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I've started to look at step vans on craigslist. I read the ad, it states a length. I see the pic. Huh?? Where are they measuring from? Is it the box itself that's the length or the whole rig, bumper to bumper?
 
Well, you almost always have to pointedly ASK the seller because frankly, most of them do not know what they are measuring ! All factory documentation identifies a step van by interior length BEHIND the drivers seat.

Step vans can look pretty good in photo and be VERY beat up when you see them. So be careful !

BRAND to me is important... Older Grumman bodies are 99% Aluminum - Other brands used a lot of steel reinforcements. Dissimilar metals CORRODE ! Look closely for corrosion.

I'd ask about dimensions for:

Overall length
Overall width
Overall height

Whether there are any existing walls or ceiling inside, whats currently on the floor and how is it fastened. then also,

Interior length behind the drivers seat or divider wall if one exists
Interior Width
Interior Height

Visually, I note how near the rear wheels come to the rear wheel wells. These were trucks made to haul WEIGHT. When you build them up inside, you often do not have as much weight as they were designed to haul, leaving you with a RUGGED ride. If you need to pull some springs to get a better ride, you need to make sure the tires clear the body. Some wheel wells are right on top the edge of the wheels.

Other things I like to know for sure:

What material is the roof made of (not a fan of the clearish fiberglass)
How many if any non-factory holes are in the roof (hard to fix patch unless you do not care about looks)
How many non-factory holes have been hammered in the rest of the body (harder to fix than steel)
Dents ? (Aluminum trucks often had tempered aluminum down near the bottom so it could "bounce back" - hard to fix dents)

Wheelbase (short wheelbase turns shorter - but to me, looks is everything)
Type of Front suspension - Coil or leaf with I-beam ( I like the independent suspended chevy on 16" rims because the cost to maintain/ repair is far less than an I-beam)

Size of wheels and tires (bigger rubber is more money and sometimes harder to find - lots of 16" available due to the "dually craze")
What type of rear door and dimensions of it (roll ups are usually shot and not very useful for this forums needs)

Engine and transmission used

Rear disc brakes or not ? (Cost more to maintain/repair)

Parking brake work ?

Sorry I am getting carried away.........
 
Thanks so much, Grummy. This is all stuff I need to know, just hadn't gotten to the asking yet! Well, and some of your answers, I didn't even know the question! lol
Agree about the clear type ceiling, too flimsy and need to insulate anyway. Same with the roll up back door too, want the barn door. The rig needs to look decent, since I'll be working out of it as well as living in it. And urban stealth camping sometimes. It'll have commercial signage.
I like the tighter turning radius from a shorter wheel base. A smallerish step van would work for me.
Good point about the weight they're made to carry. Hmmm
So what brand should I be looking for?
I don't put any trust in the pics. Amazing how great they can look, like it's not the same vehicle!
 
I had a 1972 18 foot box with barn doors and single rear wheels Kurbmaster by grumman. GM driveline I would recommend this configuration.
 
grummy said:
Well, you almost always have to pointedly ASK the seller because frankly, most of them do not know what they are measuring ! All factory documentation identifies a step van by interior length BEHIND the drivers seat.

Step vans can look pretty good in photo and be VERY beat up when you see them. So be careful !

BRAND to me is important... Older Grumman bodies are 99% Aluminum - Other brands used a lot of steel reinforcements. Dissimilar metals CORRODE ! Look closely for corrosion.

I'd ask about dimensions for:

Overall length
Overall width
Overall height

Whether there are any existing walls or ceiling inside, whats currently on the floor and how is it fastened. then also,

Interior length behind the drivers seat or divider wall if one exists
Interior Width
Interior Height

Visually, I note how near the rear wheels come to the rear wheel wells. These were trucks made to haul WEIGHT. When you build them up inside, you often do not have as much weight as they were designed to haul, leaving you with a RUGGED ride. If you need to pull some springs to get a better ride, you need to make sure the tires clear the body. Some wheel wells are right on top the edge of the wheels.

Other things I like to know for sure:

What material is the roof made of (not a fan of the clearish fiberglass)
How many if any non-factory holes are in the roof (hard to fix patch unless you do not care about looks)
How many non-factory holes have been hammered in the rest of the body (harder to fix than steel)
Dents ? (Aluminum trucks often had tempered aluminum down near the bottom so it could "bounce back" - hard to fix dents)

Wheelbase (short wheelbase turns shorter - but to me, looks is everything)
Type of Front suspension - Coil or leaf with I-beam ( I like the independent suspended chevy on 16" rims because the cost to maintain/ repair is far less than an I-beam)

Size of wheels and tires (bigger rubber is more money and sometimes harder to find - lots of 16" available due to the "dually craze")
What type of rear door and dimensions of it (roll ups are usually shot and not very useful for this forums needs)

Engine and transmission used

Rear disc brakes or not ? (Cost more to maintain/repair)

Parking brake work ?

Sorry I am getting carried away.........

Although your list is through, it's kind of like going to a dance where there are only 3 girls and they are all ugly.

There are not a lot of step vans (especially with Cummins 4BT motors) on the market, so it's not really a buyer's market. If you come across a decent step van that has most of what you are looking for, expect warts and imperfections.

In my case, I wanted barn doors on the back, but after looking for more than a year in sunny California, I found a decent Grumman Olson but with a roll up door. I can live with that.

As for holes in the roof and body, I don't worry about that because they can be sealed easily enough. I plan to attach bulkheads by using stainless steel screws from the outside of the van to the 2x4 studs inside. A dab of Dicor and it's done. All of those hundreds of rivets on the body are potential leaks, but they don't leak because they are tight and the paint forms a seal that lasts.

As for corrosion, I haven't found any yet. My Grumman Olson is a 1990 GMC P35 model and looks like new underneath. (California van)

Your advice on where to look for problems is good, but my advice is because the pool of step vans is so small, don't wait for the perfect one to come along because you will never find it.
 
I wouldn't let the roll up back door be a deal breaker. One of the best things to do it take out the roll up and frame in a wall in the hole. Being square it's easy and you can put in extra insulation, a window and a regular door. I'd build in a closet with it's own outside door for things that need to be outside like propane bottles, lead acid batteries, tools.
Bob
 
akrvbob said:
I wouldn't let the roll up back door be a deal breaker. One of the best things to do it take out the roll up and frame in a wall in the hole. Being square it's easy and you can put in extra insulation, a window and a regular door. I'd build in a closet with it's own outside door for things that need to be outside like propane bottles, lead acid batteries, tools.
Bob
Yup. I used to think I would never own one just because it is noisy cumbersome thing that just does not belong. Now I would welcome it. Heck if the truck was big enough I would rip the door off, build a wall inside the truck and have a patio out back :)
 
So many people are enamored with the notion of having a food truck that indeed the market for the steps is tight. My #1 priority will be that it starts/stops/turns/etc in an appropriate manner that doesn't frighten small children or livestock in the process. And no gaping holes from rust. The roll up wouldn't be a deal breaker. The more I think about it, maybe it'd be a good thing, just to take out to build the garage thing. I don't want it to look like a live in though, for when I'll be stealthing.
I'm wondering, do they drive/feel like a comparable size class A, minus maybe the power steering? Just a little stiffer suspension?
 
Minus the power steering???

My Union City stepvan (also called a Chevy by the unknowing), handled like a frikken sportscar!! (seriously!)

We have lots of fast, windy roads around these parts (great motorcycle riding too)...and I could keep up with anything without pushing my stepvan too hard in the corners.
(lotsa fun on a summer day with the doors slid open!!) :D

16" Budd wheels with IFS, Dually out back, 350 engine with a 4 speed manual, 14' aluminum body........if I ever had a rig that I should NOT have sold.....this was it!!! What an awesome rig!
 
Ya,, that darn food truck market... But too, the jump in scrap aluminum prices removed a lot of them from standing around. How do they drive ? Well, I prefer the Chevrolet chassis (P30-P35) with the independent front suspension.

Indeed, it drives practically exactly like a Chev Van front class C because its almost the exact same suspension. A P30 front end with independent uses the same control arms the 1 ton van uses. Which means parts are and always will be an inexpensive no brainer. One thing most steps are missing though that the Class C's often have is a rear sway bar, but then again, most class C's are higher and heavier than any of the early seventies to mid ninetys, Grumman vans.

I have not seen a step without power steering in some time.......

Yes, 4BT diesels are harder and harder to find for a few reasons. One is all the "rock crawler" and "rat rod" guys started paying crazy money for them, but another is just time. What was it ? About 1990 when Frito and the other big players paid Cummins to come up with that little retrofit ? Most of those trucks have already been off the road for some time.

But my choice would never be the diesel, not for MY particular use. One broken injection pump or blown turbo practically costs MORE to get fixed than a whole new small block chevy from one of the half zillion places that will sell you one. People need to do the real math to see if the diesel is really worth it. A complete rebuild of a 4BT, done by a competent shop will be between $5000 and $6000 !!!! I can buy a LOT of gasoline for that ! For generally inexpensive maintenance and repair costs, you just cant beat the carburated Small block Chevy.

The only real downfalls to steps are the drivers compartment. Everything else can be made snug and tight because it is a big square shell. But the Drivers comp has LOT of glass, and a LOT of exposed aluminum. While the large windows are awesome to see the world with, it gets real obvious if you draw your curtains that your living in it. The large amount of aluminum makes for challenges when it comes to heating and cooling as there is only so much you can do to sufficiently insulate that area. The doors have gotten better over the years with newer step van designs, but they are still thin, and demand good seals to keep wind from whistling thru.

For "stealth", none of that is a problem as long as you dont need to have the drivers area LOOK like a home. If you leave the factory dividing wall in one, then build YOUR new insulated wall behind it, you can leave a few coffee cups on the dash, some invoices and paper work up front and nobody on the planet would think anything other than "contractor truck".

Well, that was up until the DOT started to require all commercial trucks to have DOT numbers on the side. If you have a business name on it (even if fake) and no DOT number, you will get pulled over in some states. If you do what I did and get it registered as a motor home, then your plates say "motor home" on the bottom of them ! Can't win ! (I put my plates inside chrome frames that have hidden most of the words motor home, but Cops generally know the plate colors anyhow, so they could pick you out of a crowd.

I LOVE my truck. I DID search and search and search to find exactly the body and wheelbase I wanted. I did not get to make any real progress on it last year due to family issues, but I kept it washed up and operational. (http://www.data-cut.com/projects/step/Grumliner.html)

Dont give up if you want a step. The thing is, I've owned a handful of them over the years and frankly, I never bought one from an advertisement. I found each of them driving around, looking in back alleys and business parking lots. I bought one exactly like the current Grumliner right out of a junkyard. It had been "Scrapped" by a drywall company because the transmission "went out". I walked in, asked about it, the guy said they used it for storage. Everything has a price though, and I got it for $1500 delivered to me 30 miles away.

I got it home and found the transmission bell housing cracked, but the darn truck had a spanking new engine in it from Jasper ! A $200 transmission repair at a local shop had me on the road in no time. (And those trannies are really easy to drop... just pull the FLOOR out of the truck and work from the TOP !)

Anyhow, you have to be LOOKING for one standing in someones yard and ask about it.
 
I so appreciate everyone's input here. Thank you.
With the power steering, I just assumed they wouldn't have it. So glad to be wrong on that!
Diesel, I'm not going with that. My son is a mechanic, and he doesn't want to work on one, so there 'ya go.
I do plan to have a solid wall behind the driver seat, a door to the back. All the energy loss up there, kinda the same problem I had with my class A.
As far as the commercial aspect, I'd be okay with reg as an rv, maybe easier? RVs are sometimes used for my biz, dog grooming, so it wouldn't look out of place. Also, I do art/crafts that I'd take to fairs, etc.
I'm also thinking about all that nice real estate up top, for a nice rack, and solar panels!
 
Patrick46 said:
Mr. Grummy has onna the sweetest stepvans on this side of the planet!!

Love your rig Brah!!!! :D

+1 I have not had step van envy in quite some time....
 
In many states if you don't re-register it as an RV it will be automatically registered as commercial, and your cost of insurance will skyrocket! I have a 1 ton chevy cargo van and in Nevada it's automatically registered commercial and you can't change it unless you really do turn it into an RV. My insurance was expensive!! So I registered it in AZ as non-commercial and my insurance was half.
Bob
 
I assume different states have different rules on commercial to rv? Hadn't given it any thought. Bob, did AZ inspect to confirm your van was an "rv"? I have my AZ DL, just need to get back to get an mailing/forwarding service.
 
akrvbob said:
In many states if you don't re-register it as an RV it will be automatically registered as commercial, and your cost of insurance will skyrocket! I have a 1 ton chevy cargo van and in Nevada it's automatically registered commercial and you can't change it unless you really do turn it into an RV. My insurance was expensive!! So I registered it in AZ as non-commercial and my insurance was half.
Bob

My Starship Grumman Olson is 26 feet long and is registered as a passenger car in Oregon. Cheap DMV and insurance.
 
In Nevada it's strictly gross weight. Since my van is a 3500 1 Ton model, it's listed as commercial.

In AZ it was automatically listed as private, I never did anything to turn it into an RV except put in a bed.
Bob
 
My Kubmaster is 12 ft. not including the seats. I took out the folding rear doors and have framed it in. Lots of room, to work with far fewer rattles. Plenty of power, and drives well. Should be finished by late spring to put on the road. Great vehicles to convert in my opinion, but then again I am biased to say the least.
 
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