starting issues 1987 Dodge B250

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K

Kaylee

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Location
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From the beginning, I've had occasional issues starting my van.
Sometimes it's because I haven't primed it enough (carburetor).
Other times, I'm at a total loss, but if I just wait and retry it a few times, it gets going.

The sequence is typically:
  • I give the gas pedal one brief but firm push
  • turn the key to everything-on (pre-start) position, wait 'til all the gauges wake up
  • turn the key to start (usually while holding down the brake pedal)
  • the "brake" indicator comes on (regardless of whether I'm holding down the brake pedal)
  • nothing happens - no cranking sound, no nothing
First thing I always try is another gas pedal pump/push.
Most of the time, that's the problem, though in that case, usually there was a cranking sound.
Next, I try wiggling the wheel and cycle thru some transmission positions (sometimes it'll start in Neutral).

Over the last four days, I've started it about 8 times, and 7 of those were problems.
Last night, after an hour of fiddling, I gave up, and stayed overnight. I'd driven 20 miles yesterday morning, and had checked the oil first thing.

There's no signs of any battery issues.

What am I doing wrong, and/or what should be checked?
It's getting close to time for my first post-engine-replacement oil change, and I plan to use the third shop I've been to, which fixed the timing error made by the shop that replaced the engine.
They (3rd shop) were really on the ball, so I'm going to ask for an estimate to do a thorough inspection, mainly to give me some peace of mind.

More info here:
https://vandwellerforum.com/thread-2053.html
Thanks to all those who helped me there (Gary's forums)! :)
I'm currently locked out of there (due to a "human factors" problem that has been publicly acknowledged, but hasn't been fixed, so it's out of my control).

Thanks in advance for all help! :)
If I don't post for a few days, it'll be because I got it to start, but will check back next time I'm in town.
 
sounds like a neutral safety switch issue.

I would like to point out one of the number one things people have a hard time communicating to their mechanic. that is the difference between the engine turning over and not starting and the engine not turning over.

when the starter engages and spins the engine over that is turning the engine over. with some problems you can turn the engine over all day and it not start.

when the starter fails to turn the engine over of course it will not start but is usually a completely different issue.

you don't know how many times I have gone through the "Who's on First" game with some people over this. when you tell your mechanic my car won't start, the first thing he is going to ask is, "does it turn over" and the game begins. some people can not get the concept of turning over, they relate turning over to staring.

Kaylee none of that little rant was meant for you as I understood what you meant. it was a general FYI for everybody.

highdesertranger
 
First thing to check if it doesnt crank is a loose battery cable. Mine does the same. Giggle the cables. But all lights will go off if that happens. Another thing mine does is need the tilt steering wheel a click down from up. Or sometimes you need to push the shifter lever all the way up, and some older vehicles needed you to pull the steering wheel to one side or the other while in lock position....im not familiar enough with dodge to know its setup tho.

When the engine is turning over but it wont start give it gas. But if you give it too much it will flood and you have to wait 5 minites. Usually a carb is getting clogged and not giving enough gas though.
IDK about dodge carbs but chevy quadrajets could also slowly leak gas into the manifold and needed a JB weld fix to stop that.

What youre doing when you give it a pump before cranking is closing the choke flap. Not giving it any gas. Im going out on a limb and saying always try to start by giving a few pumps while turning the engine over on top of the initial full throttle pre-ignition pump.
 
Thanks guys!
HDR: yeah, I figured that was a general rant. I do those too. :)

Over the last few days, there's been zero noise when I turn the key to start, so it's definitely not turning over.
Would a flooded engine cause that?

When it happened yesterday morning, I did pop the hood and wiggle stuff, including (briefly) the battery cables, as well as check the oil.
The radio & indicators all come on, and last night I used the interior lights a few times, so battery seems fine.

One difference: I haven't done a fill-up for over a month. I've been buying just enough gas for the next couple of weeks, to keep expenses down.
Could that be a factor?

Would high heat & humidity be a factor in this recent sequence of problems?

The worst problem I had before was during my first week, when I was still new to the van, so I had assumed it was the user/me.
We've now been continuously living together for more than 4 months, and I'd had only about a couple of other brief issues like this.


P.S. I do have a general understanding of engines, based on training on aircraft engines when I was in the Air Reserves, and (in hindsight) arrogantly assumed I understood ground vehicle engines, but over the last half year have come to accept there's huge differences.
Ground engines are much more complex, even old 1987 ones.
 
no cranking but dashlights/gauges on, might mean a starter relay that is sticking. Also can be a starter that was going bad and finally failed. Sometimes if you bang on the starter with a tire iron it might loosen the solonoid so it cranks over. I went months doing that to start my car because sometimes it wouldnt crank over. 

Before replacing starter I would check to make sure the bolts holding the starter are on there tight. One time the starter wouldnt start I bought a new starter, when I went to replace it, I found the starter bolts loose I tightend it and that fixed it. 

I would check the starter relay first.
 
Whenever ypu troubleshoot always start simple and work your way up.

Sometimes a loose battery cable can still have lights on. They go off only when you try to crank engine. Its touching just enough to power lights but when starter pulls current it causes the bad connection to go all out. So make sure when you turn key all the lights arent going out at the same time.

Its rare and signifies a bigger issue but a severely flooded engine can hydrolock. It can actually destroy an engine. If that is happening you will smell gas in the oil and the oil will be thin and over-filled.

Next step to look at like poster above said is the starter and it components.

Should upload a video if ypu can. We can all help much better.
 
First off, when you press the gas pedal to set the choke, the accelerator pump on the carburetor puts a squirt of gas into the engine. Everytime you step on the pedal another squirt of gas is delivered to the engine. To many pedal presses leads to a flooded engine.

Your problem appears from the long lens of the internet to be electrical in nature. Flooded or not, if the engine is not turning over, gas is not the problem. Your statement of the gearshift movement causing it to start makes the neutral switch adjustment highly suspect as HDR said. Next time it won't turn over, hold the key in the start position and use your other hand to move the gear selector. If you hear the starter engage briefly while wiggling, the neutral safety switch is the culprit and needs adjusting. Put the selector in neutral and your foot on the brake while doing the wiggling (up and down) like you are changing gears.

Having your mechanic check it (and adjust if needed) is good. He will be easily able to tell if it is out of adjustment.
 
Thanks guys!

Ok, so is it almost certainly either the battery cables or starter?

Note that, about a month ago, I did twit out and left my lights on overnight while in town. There's an auto parts shop across the road, and they kindly jumped me for free. No problems after that, until this past Wednesday.

How safe is it for me to head back out into the Forest?

I do have to come back mid-week to do the next step in a software release, so it will be a relatively short Forest trip, and my "spot" is on a road that gets one or two vehicles per day. Unfortunately, no cell signal... though there's a nearby spot that did have one bar on my GoPhone (AT&T ugh). Hmmm... that sounds like the best option, for now.

Next town trip, I could ask the same auto parts shop to take a look at it.
Cleaning the battery connectors sounds like the best & easiest next step.
I don't have anything on me to use to clean them, and it's Sunday, so only tourist stuff is open.


Oh just saw Brian'a awesomeness, before hitting "post'. :)
Thanks Geek Brother! :)
You've saved my bacon many times over the last 8 months! :)

Just to clarify: it's only been a couple of times that it started in Neutral.
That worked a couple of times when I was having starter problems in my long-time stationwagon, plus in general, wiggling is good. :)
 
I tried joining one Dodge forum, but their signup was severely broken (plus, the board was heavily monetized - ugh).
Which Dodge forums are good?
 
^
See #9.  The Dodgetalk one used to be really good but the old Dodge ranks are thinning out, so it's not as active as it used to be.
 
slow2day said:
^
See #9.  The Dodgetalk one used to be really good but the old Dodge ranks are thinning out, so it's not as active as it used to be.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll tackle those next week.

What do folks think of my questions at the end of the first page?
"last post" doesn't seem to go back to the previous page, so many would have missed it.

I'm mainly concerned about going back to the Forest with this issue hanging over my head.
Despite the head-banging over the last week, each time it did eventually start, other than last night (I was knackered & gave up after an hour).
 
I agree with highdesertranger, it sounds like a problem with the neutral safety switch.
 
If you haven't already, you might wanna try wiggling the gear selection lever while holding the key in the start position,
 
IDK kaylee it would be ideal to get it resolved first. Anyone within a day or two that can come help if need be?
 
and maybe even go from park to neutral while holding the key in the start position, but make sure and have your foot on the brake.
 
For some reason this forum will only allow me to post a few words at a time
 
I've spent the past hour trying to post a complete paragraph in a single post, only to receive a 404 error code
 
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