Spacers on dually tires?

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Vagabound

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I am hoping that someone can shortcut my learning time on dually tires and related issues. My current box truck is the first vehicle I have ever owned with dually tires on it. If I had it to do all over again, I'd avoid dually tires. However, I've got them now and need to deal with them.

First, after buying a brand new set of tires from Big O, I was shocked to learn a couple weeks later that I could not even check my own tire pressure. In case you're not familiar with it, the tire stems on dually tires are often not visible, sometimes hidden behind the rims, or otherwise practically unreachable.

I've gone through several conversations with tire people and others about stem extenders, and nothing sounds right yet. At the moment I have a jury-rigged method of checking the pressure and adding air when needed. A better permanent solution will need to be found at some point.

The problem du jour is that the two side-by-side dually tires on either side are sometimes so close together that the two tires occasionally touch each other, typically near the bottom insides. 

Sometimes this was occurring because of low air pressure. I learned how to fix that and now have the tires at the proper pressure. However, the tires still touch occasionally. I've been asked about overloading, but I have a hard time imagining that is my problem because the box is three-quarters empty. 

This problem is partly caused by the fact that the current set of tires are a little bigger than what the truck specification called for, but the older tires are not made anymore, and these tires are the right ones now, but slightly wider Load Range E, etc. 

Sometimes the tires on one side will touch each other because the truck is leaning in that direction and putting more weight on that set of tires. That case is not a big deal. I'm more concerned with what happens when I'm going down the road.

Again, in case you're not familiar, the problem that I'm trying to avoid is that the two tires touch while going down the road, and friction at some point could cause a blowout in both tires.

That's the background. These are the questions. I've been told that spacers are made that can be put between the two tires on each side so that they stay a little farther apart. What I'd like to know is whether those spacers are a reliable solution, how to get good ones without overpaying, what kind of place installs them, etc?

Thanks for any help jump-starting my search for a solution.

Tom
 
Spacers might put too much of a load on the bearings, and not leave enough of the studs past the lugnuts. 

You might need to install new wheels with a slightly deeper offset if available.
 
ok I run duallies maybe I can help.
1. DO NOT run valve stem extenders. they make a one piece valve stem that will stick through one of the holes on your outside rim. you might need to go to a medium/heavy truck tire place to find them. DO NOT run rubber valve stems.
2. DO NOT let your rear tires rub. if you can't get them to stop rubbing with air pressure you need a smaller tire or spacers. you already mentioned the tire size so I won't go into that.
3. DO NOT use the slip on spacers that are merely a flat piece of metal.
4. only use quality spacers remember your rims are hub centric your spacers MUST be hub centric. for this reason I prefer the steel ones.
5. quality spacers are not cheap. DO NOT cheap out on spacers.
here's a link to quality spacers. I am not endorsing this company I am using them as an example.
http://wheeladapter.com/dually_spacers.php
if you have any more questions I will try to answer. highdesertranger
 
I'm thinking the likely cause is the new, larger tires are mounted on the old, smaller rims...the offsets on mine maintain at least an inch separation.

My valve stems are slightly better placed than yours I'd guess, but I'm still planning on valve extensions for convenience. Honestly, every time I look at it, I can't help but believe that if the tire tech who mounted them had just taken the time to figure it out, surely he could have made it easier. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just feels like carelessness to me.

One thing I learned recently was when I pointed out to a friend that I really needed to get a spare tire and find somewhere to mount it. He laughed and went on to point out that I already have two spare tires, that I can just pull a rear off the dually and move to the front in case of a flat. I'm going to have to try that soon and figure out how to jack this thing up...I was told bottle jacks work well, I just need to figure how that works...
 
My knee-jerk reaction is to say, "No, spacers don't belong on wheels & typically do damage," but after reading further I realize you're in a bit of a spot having just bough new tires & all, so my suggestion is a bit contrary to my instincts in this particular case. If you have enough of the wheel-stud sticking out to use a spacer, then go for it, but I'd try for the cheapest and thinnest one I could find (because hopefully you'll be getting rid of them soon - or maybe try and use grade-8 washers) since I'm in accord with Tx2, and it looks like you'll be shopping for new wheels sooner or later anyway. I'm not sure if they make them for 1-tons, but you may want to look into what big-rigs call "super-singles." Hope you get this thing licked, Cotton
 
A couple of random thoughts on dual rear wheels from someone who is decidedly NOT an expert on these.  If I'm getting any of this wrong, hopefully hdr or someone else will jump in and correct me.

Dual rear set ups are not considered a good idea for off road use because you can't air them down for better traction.  The two tires would contact each other and the friction would eventually cause wear and sidewall damage.

That said, if you're STUCK, I believe you can air them down enough to get unstuck, but then need to air them right back up again to avoid damage.

The other thing is that rocks can get stuck between the two tires, again potentially causing sidewall damage.

As far as using one of your real wheels as a spare, there's a REASON why they put two wheels on each side on the back.  Be sure you know both how much weight each tire is rated to carry, and how much weight you rear axle is actually carrying.  A near empty truck can maybe get away with this, a heavily loaded truck CAN'T, you will be dangerously exceeding how much weight the single wheel can carry.  It may fail catastrophically while you are trying this, or it may suffer internal damage that isn't obvious.

BTW, you see the same thing on dual axle trailers.  If one tire has a blowout, the other tire on that side suddenly has to carry ALL the weight on that side, and it's frequently more than it is rated for.  The experts recommend you buy TWO new tires for that side if that happens.
 
HDR: 
Thanks for the detailed reply and the example of a good spacer. What do you think about the concern mentioned by the first reply about spacers causing their own problems, like putting too much weight on the bearings, etc.? I am so ignorant of these things I have no idea what kind of problems they could introduce. Also, see below please.

Brad:
So do you think that a better solution than spacers might be buying new rims for the back that can put more space between the tires?  And if so, am I talking about four new rims for the back or just one wider one on each side, for a total of two rims?

----------

BTW, the truck door label (24 years ago) called for LT225 / 75R16D tires. What was recommended, purchased, and installed on my truck are LT245 / 75R16 (Mesa AP2) tires. So the major difference seems to be the 245 vs. 225.

Additionally, the door label recommends running the front tires at 65 PSI cold and the back at 60 PSI. However, the new tires are rated up to 80 PSI, with a different recommendation from every single tire guy I talk to about air pressure. At the moment, I'm running 65 in the front and 70 in the back.

Tom
 
this is not aimed at you Tom, but

Brad DO NOT use valve stem extensions. get the proper valve stems(one piece) from a medium/heavy truck tire place. no reason for a 2 piece when proper ones are available.

Cotton your way of spacing is totally wrong. just spacing the rim is a very bad idea because those slip on spacers or washers have no way to center the rim. you need hub centric spacers, period.

OP on duallies it really doesn't put extra stress on the bearings because of the dual wheels and the full floating axle. also I have no problem with duallies off road I get such good traction that I rarely use four wheel drive. I only got a rock wedge between the tires once. finally in an emergency you could drive on one tire but I would only do it off road at slow speed, never at highway speed. and yes always replace duals in sets. I do all 4 at the same time. highdesertranger
 
Late to the party, but
I'm in agreement with HDR
I run spacers, mainly because the tires were contacting each other, but also so I can install single tire chains. A bonus is that the duals now pick up way fewer stones.
Mine are 1 1/2 or 2" thick, hubcentric , I forget the brand.
One thing to be aware of- because the spacer is bolted on the original studs, and holding the inside dual in place, the outside dual studs are between the originals, so the slots in the wheels no longer align, making it a bit different airing the tires.
A steel (not rubber) valve stem with a slight (15*?) bend aligned with the outer wheel slot helps on the insiders, as does a straight ended flex hose air chuck-:https://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hau...5424&sr=8-3&keywords=tire+inflator+with+gauge
 
Hmm, didn't know about the duallies being hub-centric, so maybe not the right way to go, but I figured it would suck to spend a bunch of money on a temporary fix.  Even the best brands have been known to fail as the manufacturers never intended for that kind of leverage on the axles, bearings, & brake parts.  I'm obviously no dually expert, but image search "Broken wheel spacer" for yourself.  The one that made me cringe was this one:

AD4d2kr.jpg


I don't mean to be saying things just to be contrary, but to me wheel-spacers are never a good option.  That's just my 2¢ free, and whether it's bought or not, we're all still friends just trying to help each other out, Cotton
 
of course we are still friends. that appears to be a slip on spacer and I agree those are to be avoided. highdesertranger
 
I understand, but isn't it a strange world we live in now where people with a different opinion have to wonder about jeopardizing friendship and others have to explain that it's OK?  I hope we all somehow learn to de-escalate our society at some point before we become Bangladesh ... with nuclear weapons.

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HDR:
You said, "Cotton your way of spacing is totally wrong. just spacing the rim is a very bad idea because those slip on spacers or washers have no way to center the rim. you need hub centric spacers, period."

At first, when I read "Cotton your way of ...", I though you'd slipped into your cowboy persona, as in "I believe/reckon that your way of ..."  Then I realized that member Cotton had posted. :)

Without recreating some wheel manufacturer's website, can you simply explain what "hub centric" means in this case, and what the hullabaloo is all about regarding rim centering?  All that I've been able to get from this so far, maybe, is that slip-on spacers have no embedded lug bolts, while the hub-centric spacers do.

Cotton:
Your spacer example got my attention.  You said, "I don't mean to be saying things just to be contrary, but to me wheel-spacers are never a good option."  Were you doing this, what would your solution be?

karl:
Good info, thanks.  Getting at the tire stems is my biggest headache, other than worrying that the wheels are going to explode from friction! ;-)  On that note, something more about tire stems below ...

--------

I wanted to let some of this play out before I added the last wrinkle.  Let's put aside for a second whether stem extenders are good or bad, OK?  Let's assume that one wants stem extenders, of course picking the very best type on the planet.  One thing the various tire guys were in 100% agreement about was this:  Do not install stem extenders on rubber tire stems.

OK, I'll accept that rule as a given, as extenders logically do put extra stress on the original / main stem.  That means one needs metal tire stems.  Here's the wrinkle.  I've been told by one seemingly competent and convincing Big O Tire guy that replacing my rubber stems with metal stems might not be possible.  Something to do with where the stem comes out of the rim (a seam in the rim) and the metal stem not seating / sealing properly.  He said that the only way to know is to try it.  I really hate that answer.  I'm not a Petri dish.  Don't want my truck experimented on.  That made me think that I need to find a truck tire shop / expert, to see if metal stems can be installed.

My questions related to stems:

1.  Now we can talk about stem extenders again ;-)  I've heard of extenders that also connect the two dually tires together so that you only have to check pressure and fill at one stem for both tires.  That sounded groovy.  Whether that type or just plain extenders (which have some reinforcement in the rim hole), are there no stem extenders that work well when connected to the proper metal stems?  To the uninitiated, they look like a good solution to a shitty rim design.  Why are they so evil?

2.  Does that Big O story about possibly not being able to put metal stems on my truck sound like fact or hogwash?

3.  Assuming metal stems are possible, is there a reason to preemptively replace all of my six rubber tire stems with metal stems (without using extenders)?

Thanks,

Tom
 
Optimistic Paranoid said:

John, that was a great, easy-to-understand primer on this topic.  Thanks a bunch for providing the link.  I think I get it now ... somewhat ... sort of ... maybe. ;-)  What it really made me think of was this ... it took me quite a long time to find an extra wheel for that truck to mate with an extra old tire I had to create a spare.  Now I'm wondering if the old wheel I bought was hub- or lug-centric.  Hmmm.

I bought the old wheel from Bob's Tires in Pahrump.  Not sure what you can expect, though, from a tire shop named after the owner's cat.  Really. A dead cat named Bob. Just one of the things that makes Pahrump colorful.

Tom
 
ok first off,
hub centric rims center themselves on the hub. most 1 ton and above center the rim this way, also some 3/4 tons. that's the problem with slip on spacers they might move the outer rim beyond the hub centering area of the hub which would mean the outer rim is not centered to the hub, causing all kinds of problems.

now the valve stems. your rims should have had metal stems. rubber stems are not recommended for high PSI rims and tires. in fact I have been told by medium/heavy truck tire shops that you shouldn't under any circumstances run rubber stems. some rubber stems say they are rated for high PSI the guys at the shops scoff at this and say that's BS. I will not let them put rubber stems on my truck.

now the stem extenders and combiners. they are also no, no's. the combiners mean if you get a flat on one tire you lose air in both plus they leak, not good. the extenders are known for leaking no matter what brand. the guys at the medium/heavy truck shops say no way absolutely never run extenders. get the proper valve stems one piece metal, like I said in my first post they make long, angled one piece stems especially for the inside rim. go to a medium/heavy truck tire store and talk to them. most of them will deal with 1 ton duallies as the lower end of a medium duty truck. I have never heard of a metal stem not fitting a dually rim. I believe that Big O guy was blowing smoke. highdesertranger
 
A final thought:

I'm pretty sure that if you have road service from AAA, Coachnet, or Good Sam; and you get a flat tire on a front wheel, when the service truck shows up to change it for you and you tell them:

"I don't carry a spare.  Just take one of the back wheels off and use that!"

You are going to find you are SOL . . .
 

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highdesertranger said:
ok first off,
hub centric rims center themselves on the hub.  ...

Thanks for the good explanation.

Now I just need to find a medium/heavy truck shop.  I've been told not to go to places that work on semis as they'd gouge me, but what do I know.


That's another complication, unless the right metal one-piece stems fix the problem ...  

I have a helluva time using the normal gas station air gauge/pumps on my tires, especially the outer dually tires that have small 45 degree metal extenders on the stems now.  They were the only way to reach the original short stem that is hidden behind the rim.

I'm beginning to wonder if people who drive duallies must carry their own source of compressed air / pump, special tire gauges, and special air chucks?

Tom
 
yes Gary only the tire shop will have dozen of different configurations not just a few.

Tom remember you just need the valve stems they shouldn't gouge you for those. highdesertranger
 
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