Solar/Power Help....

[highdesertranger]

you can edit the font stuff out when it shows up. highdesertranger

 

[akrvbob]

If I were you, I'd buy a Renogy kit. For some reason they don;t include fuses, so you need to order in-line blade fuse holders

 

[riggyk]

OK, so let's circle back here, my helpful pals:

Right now here's my inventory I'll be taking on, is there anything I'm missing or anything I should change?

(Renogy 200W Kit)
- https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monoc...F8&qid=1476973665&sr=8-1&keywords=renogy+200w

(In-Line - Blade Fuse Holders)
- https://www.amazon.com/Qiorange-Hol...796&sr=8-1&keywords=in-line+blade+fuse+holder

(Batteries)
- Locally purchased - 2 :: 6 Watt Golf Cart Batteries

(Fuse Box - Blue Sea)
- https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Sys...blue+sea+fuse+box&refinements=p_85:2470955011

Thoughts here: Assuming 12V cover would be the way to go? If not, what's the move?

(Buss Bar - Blue Sea)
- https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Sys...=1476974687&sr=8-1&keywords=blue+sea+buss+bar

Thoughts here: What's the "A" of choice for this setup "100-250?" and what would be the screw/stud choice as well?

Alternator:

(Continuous Duty Solenoid)
- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005K2429I/ref=s9_dcacsd_bhz_bw_c_x_2

(Thick Gauge Battery Wiring)
- http://www.genuinedealz.com/custom-cables/custom-battery-cable-assembly

Thoughts here: - What is the best overall option for this? The 8WG? If so, what would be a decent/rough estimate on footage from say a cargo area of chevy express van to the alternator? I know I'll have to measure and get a vague idea, but just curious if anybody had experience on a general length range that would suit well without over-analyzing? - Also, any need for heat shrink here? And what kind of connector types? Does this order require 2X orders? Or just one long one?

- Do I need a portable battery charge on top of this? If so, what's a good brand to look for?
- What type of inverter would fit well here? What to look for on amazon?
- Do I need a digital voltmeter as well?
- What incremental products are needed to additionally get power from the alternator given what I plan to purchase?
- Given the time constraint and the only non-primeable item here is the thick gauge wiring for the solenoid-->Alternrator wiring, is there a reasonable way to get my solar setup in and arrange things so as to just have the solenoid/alternator setup ready for plug and play? - I guess this brings me to my next question:

Next step:

- Can anybody point to a reasonable/easy to follow diagram or circuit for this kind of setup? Also what would be a good way to house all of this?

 

[highdesertranger]

here's a simple dual battery set up,



I would change the factory wire to a larger gauge,  the one from the alternator to the main battery.   I would also hook the charge wire going to the solenoid straight to the alternator.  highdesertranger

 

[davidsan]

I am adding solar to our new van next week using AM Solar of Springfield, Oregon.  They are outstanding for their service, kits, or installs.

Our first rig was a Class C where we had two panels of 85 Watts each.  That was good enough for our everyday use for seven years before we sold the rig. 

These days, there are numerous options. We plan to use one 160 Watt panel with two 6V Life Line batteries.  I suggest you check out their website as they have excellent videos on understanding Solar and how to apply it to your van/camper/RV.

 

[ccbreder]

You are on the right road. I would skip the inline fuses, as you have picked a fuse block. You should draw out a wiring diagram to outline your system first. Then figure what cables and what size you need. There are more cables involved than from alternator to battery. There are more fuses involved than the small blade fuses. Called catastrophic fuses they go on or very near the battery. Let's see a rough drawing/diagram of what you plan. Plan first then buy parts.

 

[SternWake]

Those inline fuse holders are of duboius quality.  Theyu certainly are not water proof despite the caps and the included fuses will likely not blow anywhere near their rating.


Go blue seas here or wirth.


The Buss bar, One could use the 100 amp one with the smaller studs, but bigger ring terminals will not make the best contact.

8 awg is as light of wire as I would go for the alternator- solenoid-house battery circuit.  I plan on upgrading to 2 or 1 awg.  the lower the number the thicker the cable.

My circuit is 11 feet one way with battery under floor behind drivers seat.

Most people put up an electrical wall not far from their secured batteries to keep circuits short,  Ease of access should be considered.  Mine could certainly be better in this regard, as much cursing and neck pain occurs when I need to upgrade or modify circuits.

HDR's photo link works well.  Taking power from alternator(+)  to solenoid to house battery instead of from  engine battery will yield considerable higher amperage into depleted house battery.  If one prefers to take it from engine battery then add a parallel circuit from alternator (+) to either engine battery or engine battery side of solenoid.  Other wise the original alternator circuit acts as an electrical bottle neck and can slow recharging of a depleted battery greatly.  The OEM fuse could also blow, and this 'might' also fry the diodes in the alternator in this load dump situation.

A voltmeter Ammeter combo is much more revealing than just a voltmeter.  Voltage alone tells very little, but when charging, how many amps the battery is accepting at that voltage is extremely revealing.

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Digit...e=UTF8&qid=1476983236&sr=8-3&keywords=ammeter

I've got one of these on my alternator cable, but I will move the sensor to the cable into the house battery.  it only reads the total alternator current.  That to run the vehicle loads and what the battery is accepting. The voltmeter portion reads low, but I do not use that as I have others.  Other's report their voltmeter is accurate.

A plug in battery charger is wise.  For a pair of GC-2 batteries, get at least a 30 amp charger.
i recommend the PD9245-14.8v

http://www.bestconverter.com/PD-9245C-148-45-Amp-RV-ConverterCharger_p_610.html#.WAj6nOUrLUI

Fully automatic, but one can exert control over the stages via the remote wizard/pendant by pressing and or holding the button.

Regular smart chargers sold in wally world or Ap stores will not handle dc loads while charging the battery and are generally 20 amps or less, and a depleted pair of GC-2s should get 30 amps and certainly no less than 23.

 

[riggyk]

Guys,

I'm a bit confused on the next step here. - Here's what I have inventory wise, and my concerns questions as well:

1 - Renogy Solar Kit (Controller included)
1 - BlueSea Buss Bar
1 - BlueSea Fuse Box
2 - 6V golf car batteries (is this enough or are 4 required?)
1 - BlueSea Solenoid

Help me walk through my basic circuit here and I apologize in advance:

Solar --> Renogy Charge Controller --> Fuse Panel --> 2 6V Batteries wired in series
Fuse Panel --> Bus Bar --> Inverter

Now, I basically understand that the alternator circuit goes like so, but I'm confused as to how it comes into play with the solar circuit:

Car Battery/Alternator --> Solenoid --- ???



Questions/Concerns:

1) My electrician pal is questioning the need for a fuse panel here.... his take is that both the solenoid and solar feeds could just go straight into the batteries themselves as opposed running through the fuse panel, and the this might constantly raise the issue of consistently tripped fuses?

2) Is the plug in battery charger (PD9245-14.8v) a supplement for an inverter? Or is this simply a failsafe mechanism should I have no juice? Literally just backup power should solar and alternator come up short for whatever reason in the same vein of one of those portable battery chargers for say an iphone or something like that?

2) If NO to the above... what's the opinion on Inverter or Converter? I know this is a crucial requirement here and I'm kind of frazzled as to what route to go and what's a reliable option... My sense is that an inverter is the way to go here? What's a popular option?

3) How can a Maxxair roof fan fit into all of this? How do most go about rigging up the wiring for this fan?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

If I were doing this, I would not have one Buss bar, I would have TWO.  One for positive and one for negative.

Solar Panels -> Solar Charge Controller -> Bus Bars

Two 6 volt batteries in series -> Bus Bars (positive terminal of batter needs it's own main fuse)

Alternator/Battery -> Main Fuse -> Solenoid -> Positive Bus Bar

Short, heavy wire from negative bus bar to vehicle chassis as return path for Alt/Bat


PD9245 -> Bus Bars (This is a battery charging source when you are plugged in to grid or generator)

Bus Bars -> Maxi fuse -> Blue Sea Fuse Box (This is your battery Output.  Everything - except an inverter - gets its power from this)

Bus Bars -> Inverter (Inverter needs to be wired directly - through it's own separate fuse - with short, fat wires)

Remember the electriacl engineer's #1 rule: ' Any unfused circuit is simply a fire waiting to happen"


The maxi fuse blocks or the terminal fuse blocks shown here would be my choice:

https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/16/Fuse Blocks
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/16/Fuse Blocks
https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/16/Fuse Blocks

 

[Mobilesport]

you can edit the font stuff out when it shows up.  highdesertranger

Good to know , the Fonts were driving me nuts

 

[riggyk]

Optimistic Paranoid,

Thanks so much for the feedback.

So my take on this is:

1) I need an extra Bus Bar
2) Add the Blue Sea Maxi Fuse Block into the chain before the ST Blade

Last questions, if you'd be so kind:
- I'm in a bit of a time crunch and unsure as to whether I can access the PD9245 in a week (might be able to find someplace that has it or get it delivered in the meantime, so TBC) but if not, would there be a way to add this into the chain down the line if I couldn't right off the bat without disrupting things too much?

- What's a good choice for an inverter?

 

[SternWake]

You can attach the PD9245 at a later date no problem.

Inverters come in cheap( modified square wave) and pricey (pure sine wave)

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=msw vs psw inverter

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

- What's a good choice for an inverter?

How big an inverter do you need?  What are you trying to run with it?

For small inverter, I like Morningstar's Pure Sine Wave one.  300 watts continuous, up ton 600 watts starting surge.

For a bigger inverter, I like Samlex.

None of these are cheap.  And they're just my personal opinion, I'm sure there are other people here who'd recommend something different.

 

[riggyk]

Not sure on the size range I'd need, but I know I'll only be powering the following:

12V Fridge
A couple outlets which would charge personal electronics (phone, laptop, and intermittently)
MaxxFan
Potentially a string of holiday lights

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Not sure on the size range I'd need, but I know I'll only be powering the following:

12V Fridge
A couple outlets which would charge personal electronics (phone, laptop, and intermittently)
MaxxFan
Potentially a string of holiday lights

You understand that an inverter is used to change 12 volt dc over to 120 volt ac, right?

Your 12 volt fridge runs directly off the batteries.  So does the MaxxFan.  You may, or may not find 12 volt charger for your phone and laptop.

It sounds like you may not need an inverter at all.

It would not be hard to add one later if you find you need it.  It would just hook up to the buss bars.

If you want one for just in case, I'll stick by my recommendation of the Morningstar

 

[riggyk]

Ok got it. - Again forgive my newbness, but let's say I wanted to install (in some fashion) an outlet or two, would that require an inverter?

Help me understand how this would all work WITHOUT an inverter and with an inverter, given the addition of the second Bus Bar and Maxi Fuse?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Ok got it. - Again forgive my newbness, but let's say I wanted to install (in some fashion) an outlet or two, would that require an inverter?

Help me understand how this would all work WITHOUT an inverter and with an inverter, given the addition of the second Bus Bar and Maxi Fuse?

Ok, if you want 120 volt ac inside your vehicle, you have three options:

Plug into "shore power" at a campground

Plug into a generator

Plug into an inverter

If you are boondocking, only the last two are possibilities.

If you want to bring ac into your vehicle, from shore power or a generator, I would install something like this on the body and then wire the outlets to it.  I would also make sure to use GFCI outlets for safety:

http://www.park-power.com/en/200bbi-pt-rv

 

[riggyk]

Guys,

Any thoughts on a way to create something like this for a fridge? -- Still looking into the mechanics here, but seems there may be a way to hack a more cost friendly and efficient fridge? - Anyone done something similar?

 

[regis101]

Copy/paste from Reply #27.
*HDR's photo link works well. Taking power from alternator(+) to solenoid to house battery instead of from engine battery will yield considerable higher amperage into depleted house battery. *

I did this today. We have an older Dodge Class C and its common knowledge that their electrics can be finicky. I recently noticed the dash Amp gauge being a bit more wonky than usual. Also the (+) wire from the alt to the vehicle factory electrics was getting kind of warm as felt by hand at the bulkhead connector.
I removed the coach battery charging system solenoid wire at the starting battery and ran a new wire from the coach charging solenoid to the alternator. The dash Amp gauge settled down quite a bit. Go figure.

 

[SternWake]

The dashboard ammeters can be quite wacky.  My OEM one rarely moved enough to notify me of anything.  One time 12 some years ago, when the alternator failed, I was unaware until the windshield wipers were moving at a reduced speed.


A voltmeter saying 11.7v woould have alerted me, but the 1/32 of an inch to the left on the ammeter needle went unnoticed.

I now have a digital ammeter on my alternator output with display on dashboard.

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Digit...e=UTF8&qid=1477773611&sr=8-3&keywords=ammeter

It takes 4 more amps to run my  engine at 2000 rpm(12.2amps) compared to idle speed(8.2 amps).  the ammeter is also revealing how much it can output at any given rpm and temperature, which I find interesting.

But at some point, i will move the hall effect sensor to read amps into and out of battery, instead of alternator current. 

Usually ammeters require a shunt( precision resistor) to be inserted into a cable to read amperage, but the hall effect sensor only needs a single wire going through its middle and as such is much easier to install.

I did extend the 3 wire 2 meter long ribbon cable that comes with the above ammeter without a noticeable loss of accuracy.

Bypassing the OEM alternator circuit is wise, as most are just big enough for stock maximum electrical demands, and only for briefly, and never intended to have another set of depleted house batteries tacked onto the end of the circuit.  When more batteries are tacked onto the starter battery, the OEM charging circuit becomes an electrical bottleneck and significantly slows the charging of depleted batteries when the rpms are available to spin the alternator fast enough where it can approach its max rating

If the vehicle's voltage regulator sees that higher field currents are required to maintain voltage, it 'might' allow the higher voltages in the mid 14's to occur for longer, but this is very platform specific.

The vehicles voltage regulator, wherever it might be located, controls how much juice the alternator makes, and if it decides 13.7v is all that is needed, the depleted  house batteries will recharge at half the rate as they would if it was seeking 14.4v instead.

So Fatter cable bypassing original alternator charging circuit, is beneficial in two ways, but one is still ultimately at the mercy of the vehicles voltage regulator.

UNless one gets a little anal retentive and installs an adjustable voltage regulator with a trimpot on the dashboard and laughs maniacially whenever they get to bend the alternator to one's will, and gets to also see the amperages flowing at different voltages at the twist of a wrist.