Solar Generator
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urbanhermit70
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John61CT
this is your quote:
"Have you not been reading the information posted for you here?
Please stop using the term "solar generator", it really is meaningless, just marketing BS. "
I'm here to learn from RV/van dwellers . I'm not here to feel stupid for asking any question.
this is your quote:
"Have you not been reading the information posted for you here?
Please stop using the term "solar generator", it really is meaningless, just marketing BS. "
I'm here to learn from RV/van dwellers . I'm not here to feel stupid for asking any question.
Feel free to ignore my request, just trying to help people understand the relevant details, get beyond the marketing BS.
Certainly don't mean to make you feel stupid.
By actually reading, striving to understand, googling and asking questions when something isn't clear, you will get past your inconfidence and learn to judge the relative merits of different products yourself, understanding their specs relative to your needs.
Certainly don't mean to make you feel stupid.
By actually reading, striving to understand, googling and asking questions when something isn't clear, you will get past your inconfidence and learn to judge the relative merits of different products yourself, understanding their specs relative to your needs.
SondraRose
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I suggest you call the friendly folk at Inergy and ask them your info questions directly. They've been very helpful.kllcbosmetris said:
rm.w/aview
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urbanhermit70 said:
Trebor English
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kllcbosmetris said:
According to the Inergy web page the Kodiak has an 1100 watt hour battery. That means it can deliver 1500 watts for no more than .73 hours. 1100÷1500=.73. It is less because the inverter is going to lose some of the 1100 watt hours as heat.
That's 40 minutes at most.
And that's assuming the conditions of their watt-hours rating was based on such (unrealistic) high draws, probably much lower in reality.
That's why 20-hour rate is a standard in rating normal deep cycling batteries, have to take Peukert's Law into account.
A 100AH battery (20hr rate = 5A draw) may run 1A for 120 hours, and 20A for only 4.
And that's assuming the conditions of their watt-hours rating was based on such (unrealistic) high draws, probably much lower in reality.
That's why 20-hour rate is a standard in rating normal deep cycling batteries, have to take Peukert's Law into account.
A 100AH battery (20hr rate = 5A draw) may run 1A for 120 hours, and 20A for only 4.
Let me try to simplify this...
Operating an appliance draws power like opening a faucet draws water from a tank. The larger the tank, the longer the appliance can run. But with electricity it's more complicated than that. The size of the pipe matters, for example, and the speed of flow. If they're different, with electricity, the amount of "water" available can sometimes be different as a result. Plus, while appliances have a rating (measured in "watts") of how much power they use, that's misleading as can be. Starting a motor creates a "spike" in "water" usage, that doesn't appear in the rating-- this is why generators that appear capable of doing certain things based on paper ratings in reality cannot. Even an installer's personal skill at wiring matters-- poorly-crafted connections are inefficient and waste power. Yes, all this sucks when you're trying to plan out a power system-- I ought to know as I'm doing exactly that myself just now, and have learned most of the above just in the past few weeks. (Begin with Ohm's Law, I suggest. If you can't grasp that, have someone else plan your system.)
That said...
My goal is to run a 5000 btu window A/C system, with little to nothing else needing to run at the same time. (That matters-- remember the pipe-size and speed thing.) Luckily I have enough money saved to credibly try and achieve this, because quite simply it ain't gonna be cheap. I found a window unit that will draw 500- 550 watts for a reasonable price, and it comes from the factory with a "soft-start" capacitor that smooths out the problem-causing "demand-spikes" mentioned above. (Of all common appliances, air conditioners apparently are among the worst for creating spikes.) Since I also plan to keep a mobile home at least temporarily in a place prone to long power failures, I decided that it was worth paying extra to purchase a modularized, easily-transported device to serve as the "core" of my new system. Since my max draw will be about 550 watts, when the unit's compressor is running (which is not 100% of the time under some but not all conditions) I chose to pay through the nose for an Inergy Kodiak, because it's modularized and rated for such a draw. (Other than the price, so far I not only have no complaints with the product itself but am deeply impressed with the customer service.) This "solar generator" (I hate the name too, but it's in general use and its meaning is commonly agreed-upon, so I'll continue to use it) is as near as I can tell the best currently on the market, and...
...will, if I'm lucky and it's not too hot out_ provide enough power from its internal battery to run my air conditioner for about _2.5 hours_. That's all, if I'm lucky. And in the real world I'm expecting a lot less.
Due to my research, I am aware that the Kodiak is not an entire, complete system, despite the misleading name "solar generator". It must be externally charged (more water pumped in) from time to time, and while the internal battery is of very high quality and has an unusually long service life, the more often and the more deeply you discharge it the sooner it'll have to be replaced, at a very high cost. That means that even though I might maybe get 2.5 hours, I'd be a fool to use it that way on a regular basis. So, here are my options to "get more water"...
1) I can install up to 600 watts of solar panels (limited by the _input_ circuitry of the Kodiak, which is different from the output circuitry specification printed on the box in big letters, as is normal with solar generals and _not_ deceptive practice so long as it's in the fine print elsewhere), which I indeed plan to do. However... Note that 600 watts of actual charging input is obtained from 600 watts worth of panels only under ideal lab testing conditions. Six hundred watts of real-world solar panels probably equates to _at best_ (I have no real-world experience to go by, remember-- all this is still theoretical planning on my part and I freely acknowledge this) 500 watts for at most an hour or two a day around noontime under excellent conditions, and the air conditioner is going to draw 500-550 whenever the compressor is running, not just near noon. So while this can help (again, I plan to do it) it's not going to make me anything close to power independent.
2) I can recharge the Kodiak while driving from the vehicle's cig-lighter plug. Again, I plan to do this. But you can see that even full Kodiak charges won't carry me long. Even tiny air conditioners need lots of "water"
3) I can buy and use a pricey, obnoxious, unreliable, fuel-requiring, attention-requiring, theft-prone and maintenance-demanding generator to run my AC whenever I need it, and the solar for everything else. (The solar should be more than enough, for me, minus the air conditioner. I don't expect to consume a lot of other power.)
4) I can pay to stay at power-providing campgrounds during unbearably hot weather until I go completely broke.
5) I can live without AC, despite the fact that my circumstances will probably require me to spend considerable time every summer in the miserable Southeast and lower Midwest.
6) I can try to install more solar panels, and then due to having more cells than my solar generator can handle simply not use the Kodiak as the heart of my power system as planned. I may or may not be able to find enough flat roof space and money for enough solar cells and batteries to run the AC 24/7; I'm still not certain, in part because too many other factors are still up in the air. In any event, it won't be easy. Or even remotely cheap.
Now, why did I write this long, lengthy posting? In order to demonstrate what another poster said-- you simply _must_ figure this out for yourself. No one else can do it for you. The issue is so technically complex and individual requirements so varied that it'd be like having someone else order for you at a restaurant, or make important health-care decisions. I also did it because I'm in sort of a unique position just now-- not eight weeks ago I knew _nothing_ about this subject, but with a little patience and internet research... Well, it hasn't by any stretch made me an expert. But at least I now know enough to make much more intelligent decisions than I could back then. Like... If I had it to do over, I'd probably not've bought the $1600 Kodiak and used the money for other things. This is no knock on Inergy-- I truly believe that the Kodiak is probably the best of its kind available and will be perfect for many power-systems. But in my case it lacks the solar input capacity to do what I potentially need done, and I bought it mostly out of a combination of ignorance and mistaken advice from someone who failed to understand my individual needs. Live and learn, I suppose. So...
Please, do _not_ take this as someone saying the Kodiak absolutely isn't the right answer for van-dwelling-- for some, I bet it's perfect. Instead, I'm suggesting that you have to know a certain amount before you even begin to ask questions about this sort of thing-- otherwise, you won't understand good answers when you get them. Go to the internet first, and learn. Learn a lot, and I suggest you begin with Ohm's Law. And if you can't master that, then you probably _should_ ask someone else to design your system for you. But at least you'll understand why this is a much bigger favor than it seems. And also why the results probably won't perfectly suit your individual requirements no matter how hard they try.
Operating an appliance draws power like opening a faucet draws water from a tank. The larger the tank, the longer the appliance can run. But with electricity it's more complicated than that. The size of the pipe matters, for example, and the speed of flow. If they're different, with electricity, the amount of "water" available can sometimes be different as a result. Plus, while appliances have a rating (measured in "watts") of how much power they use, that's misleading as can be. Starting a motor creates a "spike" in "water" usage, that doesn't appear in the rating-- this is why generators that appear capable of doing certain things based on paper ratings in reality cannot. Even an installer's personal skill at wiring matters-- poorly-crafted connections are inefficient and waste power. Yes, all this sucks when you're trying to plan out a power system-- I ought to know as I'm doing exactly that myself just now, and have learned most of the above just in the past few weeks. (Begin with Ohm's Law, I suggest. If you can't grasp that, have someone else plan your system.)
That said...
My goal is to run a 5000 btu window A/C system, with little to nothing else needing to run at the same time. (That matters-- remember the pipe-size and speed thing.) Luckily I have enough money saved to credibly try and achieve this, because quite simply it ain't gonna be cheap. I found a window unit that will draw 500- 550 watts for a reasonable price, and it comes from the factory with a "soft-start" capacitor that smooths out the problem-causing "demand-spikes" mentioned above. (Of all common appliances, air conditioners apparently are among the worst for creating spikes.) Since I also plan to keep a mobile home at least temporarily in a place prone to long power failures, I decided that it was worth paying extra to purchase a modularized, easily-transported device to serve as the "core" of my new system. Since my max draw will be about 550 watts, when the unit's compressor is running (which is not 100% of the time under some but not all conditions) I chose to pay through the nose for an Inergy Kodiak, because it's modularized and rated for such a draw. (Other than the price, so far I not only have no complaints with the product itself but am deeply impressed with the customer service.) This "solar generator" (I hate the name too, but it's in general use and its meaning is commonly agreed-upon, so I'll continue to use it) is as near as I can tell the best currently on the market, and...
...will, if I'm lucky and it's not too hot out_ provide enough power from its internal battery to run my air conditioner for about _2.5 hours_. That's all, if I'm lucky. And in the real world I'm expecting a lot less.
Due to my research, I am aware that the Kodiak is not an entire, complete system, despite the misleading name "solar generator". It must be externally charged (more water pumped in) from time to time, and while the internal battery is of very high quality and has an unusually long service life, the more often and the more deeply you discharge it the sooner it'll have to be replaced, at a very high cost. That means that even though I might maybe get 2.5 hours, I'd be a fool to use it that way on a regular basis. So, here are my options to "get more water"...
1) I can install up to 600 watts of solar panels (limited by the _input_ circuitry of the Kodiak, which is different from the output circuitry specification printed on the box in big letters, as is normal with solar generals and _not_ deceptive practice so long as it's in the fine print elsewhere), which I indeed plan to do. However... Note that 600 watts of actual charging input is obtained from 600 watts worth of panels only under ideal lab testing conditions. Six hundred watts of real-world solar panels probably equates to _at best_ (I have no real-world experience to go by, remember-- all this is still theoretical planning on my part and I freely acknowledge this) 500 watts for at most an hour or two a day around noontime under excellent conditions, and the air conditioner is going to draw 500-550 whenever the compressor is running, not just near noon. So while this can help (again, I plan to do it) it's not going to make me anything close to power independent.
2) I can recharge the Kodiak while driving from the vehicle's cig-lighter plug. Again, I plan to do this. But you can see that even full Kodiak charges won't carry me long. Even tiny air conditioners need lots of "water"
3) I can buy and use a pricey, obnoxious, unreliable, fuel-requiring, attention-requiring, theft-prone and maintenance-demanding generator to run my AC whenever I need it, and the solar for everything else. (The solar should be more than enough, for me, minus the air conditioner. I don't expect to consume a lot of other power.)
4) I can pay to stay at power-providing campgrounds during unbearably hot weather until I go completely broke.
5) I can live without AC, despite the fact that my circumstances will probably require me to spend considerable time every summer in the miserable Southeast and lower Midwest.
6) I can try to install more solar panels, and then due to having more cells than my solar generator can handle simply not use the Kodiak as the heart of my power system as planned. I may or may not be able to find enough flat roof space and money for enough solar cells and batteries to run the AC 24/7; I'm still not certain, in part because too many other factors are still up in the air. In any event, it won't be easy. Or even remotely cheap.
Now, why did I write this long, lengthy posting? In order to demonstrate what another poster said-- you simply _must_ figure this out for yourself. No one else can do it for you. The issue is so technically complex and individual requirements so varied that it'd be like having someone else order for you at a restaurant, or make important health-care decisions. I also did it because I'm in sort of a unique position just now-- not eight weeks ago I knew _nothing_ about this subject, but with a little patience and internet research... Well, it hasn't by any stretch made me an expert. But at least I now know enough to make much more intelligent decisions than I could back then. Like... If I had it to do over, I'd probably not've bought the $1600 Kodiak and used the money for other things. This is no knock on Inergy-- I truly believe that the Kodiak is probably the best of its kind available and will be perfect for many power-systems. But in my case it lacks the solar input capacity to do what I potentially need done, and I bought it mostly out of a combination of ignorance and mistaken advice from someone who failed to understand my individual needs. Live and learn, I suppose. So...
Please, do _not_ take this as someone saying the Kodiak absolutely isn't the right answer for van-dwelling-- for some, I bet it's perfect. Instead, I'm suggesting that you have to know a certain amount before you even begin to ask questions about this sort of thing-- otherwise, you won't understand good answers when you get them. Go to the internet first, and learn. Learn a lot, and I suggest you begin with Ohm's Law. And if you can't master that, then you probably _should_ ask someone else to design your system for you. But at least you'll understand why this is a much bigger favor than it seems. And also why the results probably won't perfectly suit your individual requirements no matter how hard they try.
Headache
Well-known member
When math is complicated just mimic a system close to your needs. In talking with JiminDenver he does everything I want to do including run an air conditioner. Math solved. I won't have the exact solar panels he has but I'll be a little over from panels he told me about.
I have a "solar generator" and while in town it served my needs. Out here it can be a pain to charge. Recently the company changed their description on Amazon and solar generator isn't the first thing you see. They ARE NOT worth the money you spend for them out here! I only spent $150 for mine.
Bob and Jim did a seminar on solar generators and a simple solar system. I haven't checked lately but the video should be very informative one it is out. You can't truly justify the cost of a power storage box when solar can be had so cheaply.
I have a "solar generator" and while in town it served my needs. Out here it can be a pain to charge. Recently the company changed their description on Amazon and solar generator isn't the first thing you see. They ARE NOT worth the money you spend for them out here! I only spent $150 for mine.
Bob and Jim did a seminar on solar generators and a simple solar system. I haven't checked lately but the video should be very informative one it is out. You can't truly justify the cost of a power storage box when solar can be had so cheaply.
dklassen
Well-known member
Took our Kodiak solar generator out for it's first run a couple weeks ago. Also had a 100Ah AGM tied to it. Ran our Maxxair, a 12v desktop fan, Dometic CFX-50 fridge, phone chargers, other misc and even a couple DVD movies on the 19" TV/DVD. Worked beautifully for the nearly 3 days we were there (Mid-West Vanlife gathering in MO). Didn't have any panels at the time so never recharged. Now we have a 100w Renogy Eclipse solar suitcase to help out. Very pleased with how it all preformed.
dklassen
Well-known member
I got the suitcase without the charge controller. The Kodiak has one built in. What you do need is their MC4 to Neutrik adaptor. I suppose you could make one but I just bought theirs for $25. With that you can plug in any standard panel(s) with MC4 connectors up to 600 watts, no separate charge controller needed.
dklassen
Well-known member
You'll want to use the panels without the charge controller. Let the Kodiak manage the solar charge. Even if the suitcase has the charge controller you could just disconnect it and use the adapter directly.
JessePettyjohn
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Would you mind stating how you were able to Hook up your MaxxAir fan to your Inergy Kodiak?? Just curious because I will be creating a similar set up. Any help would be appreciated!! Thanksdklassen said:
dklassen
Well-known member
I ran a wire from the Maxxair down to where I have the Kodiak and put on cig lighter plug. The Maxxair is on one 12v port and my fridge is on the other. I do have a splitter on one for a desk fan or whatever.
JessePettyjohn
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Awesome. Is your 12v cig lighter plug rated for 5amps or 10amps? The Inergy Kodiak doesn’t exceed 12v for charging output right?dklassen said:
dklassen
Well-known member
The 12v cig lighter ports are 15 amps each. No, it doesn't exceed 12v output.
JessePettyjohn
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dklassen said:
Awesome. Do you mind telling me what brand cig lighters you got that were 15amps? Appreciate it
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