Solar and Batteries

[duckwonder]

Hi All.

I'm trying to increase the number of days that I can boondock.  I'm a little confused about how to run things to get optimum efficiency and power.  Here's what I have or am carrying on the RV van and how I think I am supposed to power them while boondocking.  I will also need to be able to charge several electronic devices:  

A/C - generator
Microwave - generator
Stove - onboard propane
3-way Fridge - onboard propane (but if i have enough solar would it keep fridge cold on dc?)
Furnace - propane, but will use Mr. Buddy to allow more onboard propane to the fridge plus onboard propane uses some battery, I think
Mr. Buddy - portable propane - use for any heating needs, onboard propane as backup only
Water Pump - onboard propane, only use water pump when needed and turn it off
Lights, Electronics - battery

For solar, the current set-up from the previous owner is a 100w panel and there is only room on roof for the one panel.  When this was added, the owner added a 12v battery so now there are 2 12v lead batteries onboard but they are in different compartments and I do not believe they are connected to each other, i.e. one is the regular house battery and one was added for solar.

If I get a Zamp 160 Suitcase solar system, it seems like I will increase my solar from 100w to 260w.  Is that correct?  If I do that, how does all this need to be set up (not details, just what-to-what) in order for all systems to work?  Is this enough solar power?  How many boondocking days could I anticipate if I am very conservative?  Thank you for your help.

 

[Blanch]

It is never a simple answer. First you need to know what is going on with your batteries. Are they connected and both running your onboard systems?

I have not heard of a propane water pump, mine is 12volt.

I can tell you of my systems and boondocking as I have experience there. I use a Zamp 160watt solar suitcase that connects directly to my two 12 volt batteries. My two 12 volt batteries supply 180 amp hours. I carry extra water- three six gallon containers. So in total I carry 78 gallons of water. I also have a cheap 1000 watt generator. With all of this I can boondock for two weeks. If I am able to empty my gray water tanks and bring in more water, I can last a month before I have to empty my black tank.

I am not able to run my AC with this set up, so if it gets too hot I move to another location. To run an RV AC unit you need a large and expensive generator. My first generator was stolen, so I am unwilling to get another expensive unit.

But two weeks is easy for boondocking with what I have. I live in a TT and boondock almost exclusively.


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[highdesertranger]

lets see first the 12v on the refrigerator is only meant to use with the engine running. the 12v element sucks a lot of power. your water pump runs off the 12v system.

you need to figure out the wiring of the system. two batteries are best but they should be right next to each other. yes you can add the portable to increase your solar. once you get everything straighten out 2 weeks out boondocking should be no problem. highdesertranger

 

[duckwonder]

For the water pump I thought it was the propane that heats the water so that's why I thought that, but glad to know that it's really from the battery.  Thank you.  Glad to know that once it's wired properly that the Zamp 160 and 100w panel on top should give me a good stretch of boondocking.  Will try to find a way to get both batteries side by side someplace.  Thanks for your help.

 

[highdesertranger]

the water pump is 12v the water heater is propane but needs the pump to move the water. highdesertranger

 

[duckwonder]

the water pump is 12v the water heater is propane but needs the pump to move the water.  highdesertranger

Thanks for setting me straight.  It must take so much patience being so much more knowledgeable and trying to help the newbies.  If we ever meet, just let me know what I can cook for ya.  So appreciate the assistance.  Thanks again to you both.

 

[jonsun]

Dont be spending more than about $2 per watt for solar.

 

[duckwonder]

Dont be spending more than about $2 per watt for solar.

Hmm, how is that possible?  The system I saw has the mono panels and mppt controller and folds up and has a case.  It's $800 for 160watts.  What would you suggest?

 

[Blanch]

Dont be spending more than about $2 per watt for solar.

I disagree. Zamp Solar makes a high quality product that I am very happy with. I've seen the cheaper ones and I have not been impressed. For a solar suitcase Zamp is the best around. I was in Ehrenberg camped with someone who had a 160 watt Zamp Suitcase and another person who had 400 watts of cheap panels on their roof. The Zamp was better built and brought in more power than the 400 watt on roof system. I was impressed and went to the Solar place in Quartzsite and purchased the Zamp. It is plug and play, no wiring required, and it meets my needs. I like to park in the shade in summer so roof panels don't work. I can move these during the day to maximize output.

Why is it people recommend a Honda generator over others? The quality. Well Zamp is the high quality system for portable solar.


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[tx2sturgis]

Even though the fridge and the water heater run on propane, they still need to pull a small amount of DC from the batteries to operate the control circuits. So if your batteries did go dead, the fridge and the water heater will not work either.

The fresh water pump, and lighting, radio, TV, and several other small loads probably all run off of batteries, either one or the other, or possibly both.

It sounds like the previous owner set up the RV with a 100 watt panel for limited boondocking, and of course, you are adding to that. The 100 watt panel is probably just able to keep the battery (or batteries) at a suitable level for basic needs, but any surplus power you can generate will be a plus.

 

[jonsun]

Hmm, how is that possible?  The system I saw has the mono panels and mppt controller and folds up and has a case.  It's $800 for 160watts.  What would you suggest?

$180 plus shipping

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/solar-cynergy-160-watt-foldable-12-volt-solar-panel-2/

 

[duckwonder]

$180 plus shipping

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/solar-cynergy-160-watt-foldable-12-volt-solar-panel-2/

Wow, that is WAY less expensive.  It looks like it's polycrystalline though it did not say in the description.  I am so new it's ridiculous but in my research so far it looks like monocrystalline is still better quality-wise but that poly is starting to catch up at least with some brands.  This is hard for me because I will have to save up for awhile in order to get the Zamp but options like this where the price difference is so substantial, I don't know.  Since the solar is so incredibly important for boondocking time and without a battery, nothing else will work, I think I might have to save up and do the quality thing on this one.  With the suitcase I will not have to fool with set-up and wiring; however, since I have that 100w panel, looks like I'll need to mess with the wiring anyway to get all that working together. (Thanks highdesert). Makes me nervous but I have awhile to research a little more before I'm able to get the suitcase, so we'll see.  Would hate to hit the road and then find I can only go 5 days and have to deal with it all over again.  Thanks to all for input.  Much appreciated.

 

[highdesertranger]

remember conserving power is always easier then making power. highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

Here's a 120 watt monocrystaline system that might work...at a middle price range.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Nature-P...-Charging-in-Briefcase-Design-55702/205395394


I like getting panels from Home Depot because its usually free shipping and I can pick them up right at the store....when I'm always gonna find something else I need! Dangit!



Or maybe something like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-12V-Be...630778?hash=item465352913a:g:ULEAAOSwQr5ZrMFl

Flexible panels dont weigh much, and you can easily slide one behind a couch or even under the mattress when traveling.

 

[duckwonder]

Here's a 120 watt monocrystaline system that might work...at a middle price range.

Thanks tx, those look like interesting options in the middle.  Time to think on it but will keep you all posted.  Thanks for being here.

 

[jonsun]

Wow, that is WAY less expensive.  It looks like it's polycrystalline though it did not say in the description.  I am so new it's ridiculous but in my research so far it looks like monocrystalline is still better quality-wise but that poly is starting to catch up at least with some brands.  This is hard for me because I will have to save up for awhile in order to get the Zamp but options like this where the price difference is so substantial, I don't know.  Since the solar is so incredibly important for boondocking time and without a battery, nothing else will work, I think I might have to save up and do the quality thing on this one.  With the suitcase I will not have to fool with set-up and wiring; however, since I have that 100w panel, looks like I'll need to mess with the wiring anyway to get all that working together. (Thanks highdesert). Makes me nervous but I have awhile to research a little more before I'm able to get the suitcase, so we'll see.  Would hate to hit the road and then find I can only go 5 days and have to deal with it all over again.  Thanks to all for input.  Much appreciated.

IDK but they're the same size and produce the same current, and have pretty much the same controller so....it really doesn't matter. they're both probably made in the same asian factory with a different brand label like most things nowadays.

high price doesn't equal quality especially in the solar industry, if it did I have the perfect setup for you

 

[John61CT]

The flex panels are pricier, have heat issues and don't last as long, otherwise they're great.

Within broad type categories, panels are pretty much generic, best to buy local if possible to get some support.

Sunpower cells at 22% efficiency are good to look for.

The **controllers** make a huge difference in overall performance, getting the battery bank to 100% full each cycle, more so than panels.

Why I don't advise getting kits.

Any two framed panels can become a "portable suitcase" by adding hinge and handle.

 

[Almost There]

And any two framed panels can be used as portable without joining them together. I keep each of the two panels separate so that they are easier for me to handle. The wiring from each plugs in to a multiple outlet cord.

I intended to build a support system to allow for tilting but for the past 6 months 2 of my square 5 gallon buckets have proved more than sufficient to use as props. I can adjust the tilt, move the panels easily for tracking, put rocks in them if needed, stack them under my pine shavings bucket for storage and use the buckets for carrying river water if needed....   Oh and they cost me nothing...the buckets I mean!

 

[jimindenver]

$180 plus shipping

https://www.solarblvd.com/products/solar-cynergy-160-watt-foldable-12-volt-solar-panel-2/

I had this until I was talked into selling it someone out here that needed it more than I did. As a portable it is a good price. You do have to provide your own wires from the controller on the back of the panels to the batteries. The bag is another $25.

My thoughts have been that the controller is barely functional and a pain to set. It can not be removed from the panels to be placed near the batteries so in my opinion you really need to supply a set of wires/fuses AND a decent controller you can put where is does best.

The quality of the rest of it is fine , panels/hinges/handle and folding legs. Still considering that the cost of 12v panels has dropped recently, you may be able to get a few 100w panels and a acceptable controller for about the same money. A handle, a few hinges and set of sticks as legs isn't going to break the bank either.

One of the reasons I was willing to sell it was that it weighs more than I am allowed to lift. It and other portables like it are not exactly a small item to store or even move around. If these were not issues I would tell you that a single high voltage panel and a inexpensive MPPT controller is a wonderfully inexpensive portable.

Since I do have weight restrictions and storage issues I am going to look for a decent deal on a pair of flexible panels before the RTR. I am not a fan but the issues they have should not affect me using them occasionally for demonstration.

 

[duckwonder]

One of the reasons I was willing to sell it was that it weighs more than I am allowed to lift. It and other portables like it are not exactly a small item to store or even move around. If these were not issues I would tell you that a single high voltage panel and a inexpensive MPPT controller is a wonderfully inexpensive portable.

Since I do have weight restrictions and storage issues I am going to look for a decent deal on a pair of flexible panels before the RTR. I am not a fan but the issues they have should not affect me using them occasionally for demonstration.

First of all, did I see you on YouTube, is that you making me think on internet/cell needs a little more?
Second, I have Sciatica but I did physical therapy for a year and then my 7 week maiden voyage in the van strengthened my back because I was very, very careful - but I had help then, and won't going forward.  So now I can do some things but need to be very careful.  One unthoughtful lift can put me back in the hospital.  That's one of the reasons I looked at the Zamp 160-P - it weighs 38 pounds altogether or I may have looked at the 200w system (but it weighs too much).  I'm having the same problem with the Mr. Buddy and a regular size propane tank in a milk crate (I might not be able to do that and Have to use the one pounders) as well as 1gal water jugs so my rig is FULL and mostly of individual items in an already inefficient spread of space.  So that's some more info about my back and the space issue.
Third, earlier in the thread Blanch was saying that the Zamp met her needs; I should ask her more about that, but assuming our needs are somewhat the same, why can't I use the system as it is set up now plus the suitcase and keep them as separate units?  (May be a question to HighDesert about that wiring).  I see you mentioned a single high voltage panel.  I am wondering if there is such a thing, mostly I just see 100w out there but that is watts, not volts, no I'm just confused.  Maybe I need to scrap the current batteries, inverter and mounted panel and replace them with a new system that works together really well, just don't want to if what I have works perfectly well and will last a long time and could act as additional watts.  But if I had a great system with a single panel on the roof and did not have to carry a suitcase against my kitchen galley as I drive, then I would not do the portable.  Except that boondocking time is what is the most important to me, and the portable would allow me to park under a tree when available and add precious time to a stay before having to spend a full day packing up my camp, getting services, and re-setting up camp in the same spot.  In short, I am more confused that when I started.  Should I scrap the current system and look at a whole new System?  The lead batteries I have work but are anywhere up to 13 years old now.
Third,