Smart Charger vs. Inverter Charger

[user 23166]

Hello everyone,
I have a question for all electrical geniuses out there, I'm hoping you can explain something to me.

I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a NoCo 4 bank smart charger for my 350 AH battery bank...orrr if I should just get an inverter charger like an Iota.

My setup is most likely going to start out with 2/ 6 volt, 350 AH Trojan FLA batteries, and within 2 months, buy another 2 of the same. So I'll have2 seperate banks of 2 batteries each, and 700 AH each bank.

I Want to use 3 different methods of charging said battery banks....shore power, gas and/or propane generator (for emergencies and until I get my solar up,) and of course, solar. I would also like to be able to charge my house batteries while I drive, but I'm not sure that will be feasible with my cars small alternator.

With all that said, what is the fastest method for charging my battery banks with shore power and/or generator....a NOCO 4 bank smart charger or an IOTA, and why does a NOCO charger only charge at the most with 10 amps, but an inverter charger can go as high as a 100 amps?

It's a bit confusing :huh:

Any help is appreciated,
Thanks

 

[highdesertranger]

well I am not an electrical genius and I don't play one on TV. but I have a question why NOCO and why a 4 bank charger? you only have one bank to charge right?

most of the marine charges are more of a maintainer than a charger for when the boat is not being used and most boats have multiple battery banks that are isolated from each other so all your batteries don't go dead at once leaving you dead on the water.

also I prefer to have a separate inverter and charger. so if one fails you don't have to replace both. It's kinda of a waste if you throw out a perfectly good inverter because the charger failed, or vice versa.

highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

My setup is most likely going to start out with 2/ 6 volt, 350 AH Trojan FLA batteries, and within 2 months, buy another 2 of the same. So I'll have2 seperate banks of 2 batteries each, and 700 AH each bank.

Two 6 volt, 350 AH batteries in series (for 12v) is STILL 350 AH.

So, two banks of each pair will be 350 AH, each bank, not 700 AH, each bank. Total for BOTH banks will be, 700 AH.

This is important because it might help in sizing your charger, and figuring rate of discharge when you program your controller or monitor, if it has that feature.

The NOCO is more of a battery maintainer for constant shore power. The IOTA, Progressive Dynamics, etc, are faster and designed to use shore or generator power to re-charge partially or greatly depleted batteries, at higher rates, when that AC power is available.

 

[highdesertranger]

oops, thanks Texas I missed that. highdesertranger

 

[user 23166]

well I am not an electrical genius and I don't play one on TV.   but I have a question why NOCO and why a 4 bank charger?  you only have one bank to charge right?

most of the marine charges are more of a maintainer than a charger for when the boat is not being used and most boats have multiple battery banks that are isolated from each other so all your batteries don't go dead at once leaving you dead on the water.

also I prefer to have a separate inverter and charger.  so if one fails you don't have to replace both.  It's kinda of a waste if you throw out a perfectly good inverter because the charger failed,  or vice versa.

highdesertranger

That"s a good Idea HDR about a seperate converter and charger.

I will have 4 batteries, 1 set of 2 batteries hooked in series/parallel, and the other 2 batteries hooked in series parallel. One to run my refrigerator off and the other to run my CPAP off....so that's a total of 4 banks which is why the 4 bank charger.

 

[user 23166]

Two 6 volt, 350 AH batteries in series (for 12v) is STILL 350 AH.

So, two banks of each pair will be 350 AH, each bank, not 700 AH, each bank. Total for BOTH banks will be, 700 AH.

This is important because it might help in sizing your charger, and figuring rate of discharge when you program your controller or monitor, if it has that feature.

The NOCO is more of a battery maintainer for constant shore power. The IOTA, Progressive Dynamics, etc, are faster and designed to use shore or generator power to re-charge partially or greatly depleted batteries, at higher rates, when that AC power is available.

TY, that's what I needed to know.

My Bad, I assumed everyone would understand that I would be running these batteries in series/parallel, hence the 700 AH's.

 

[B and C]

That is actually two banks at 12V. You would be better served me thinks by making one big bank. Your depth of discharge will be lower extending the life of your batteries. The shallower you discharge them, the longer they will last. All you need then is one charger and one solar charge controller.

 

[Elbear1]

Inverter charger is very different than converter charger ....which is what IOTA is.

Inverter chargers are big $$$ worth it generally only if you have a pre-wired camper.

To keep it simple: get the Iota or whatever brand in 100A. They dont charge at their full capacity (100a may only output 80-90a measured) and you need at bare min 100A actual.

 

[MotorVation]

Also, make sure the charger you pick will run on the generator you (a) already have or (b) are planning to get.

For instance, I just ordered a Progressive Dynamics charger for my 12 volt bank. It's rated at 30 amps and the specs say it pulls 500 watts.
My generator (Sportsman 1000i) is only rated at 800 running watts and 1000 peak. I don't know if the charger spikes past 1000 watts when it's first turned on.

I took a gamble on that because I have tested the generator by running a 5000 BTU air conditioner that's rated at 450 watts and it was ok. If the charger is successfully pulling 500 watts from the generator, it will be working pretty hard. I only intend to use the generator for that purpose as a backup in case for some reason my solar hasn't charged the batteries or I have no access to shore power.

Keep asking questions before you pull the trigger on anything. There are people in this forum that have the correct answers. I only know what I've recently learned here

 

[Elbear1]

Also, make sure the charger you pick will run on the generator you (a) already have or (b) are planning to get.

For instance, I just ordered a Progressive Dynamics charger for my 12 volt bank. It's rated at 30 amps and the specs say it pulls 500 watts.
My generator (Sportsman 1000i) is only rated at 800 running watts and 1000 peak. I don't know if the charger spikes past 1000 watts when it's first turned on.

I took a gamble on that because I have tested the generator by running a 5000 BTU air conditioner that's rated at 450 watts and it was ok. If the charger is successfully pulling 500 watts from the generator, it will be working pretty hard. I only intend to use the generator for that purpose as a backup in case for some reason my solar hasn't charged the batteries or I have no access to shore power.

Keep asking questions before you pull the trigger on anything. There are people in this forum that have the correct answers. I only know what I've recently learned here

Excellent point. They pull way more than theory due to efficiency losses. A 100A probablly needs at least 2000 running watts. My 55A pulls pretty good on my 1400 running watt sportsman.


I said this (oversize your generator) to a lady here a month or so ago and was called an idiot I believe was the word....at least implied. 

Generators dont always output what they advertise and elevation robs power.

 

[Beavers]

I have an Iota DLS-45 charger that I run with a Ryobi 1800 watt generator.  According to the display panel on the Ryobi the Iota is pulling about 90% of the generator capacity when the charger is in bulk charge mode.  


It's nice not to have the charger completely maxing out the generator, I still have a little capacity left over to run other things while charging the batteries.

 

[user 23166]

Also, make sure the charger you pick will run on the generator you (a) already have or (b) are planning to get.

For instance, I just ordered a Progressive Dynamics charger for my 12 volt bank. It's rated at 30 amps and the specs say it pulls 500 watts.
My generator (Sportsman 1000i) is only rated at 800 running watts and 1000 peak. I don't know if the charger spikes past 1000 watts when it's first turned on.

I took a gamble on that because I have tested the generator by running a 5000 BTU air conditioner that's rated at 450 watts and it was ok. If the charger is successfully pulling 500 watts from the generator, it will be working pretty hard. I only intend to use the generator for that purpose as a backup in case for some reason my solar hasn't charged the batteries or I have no access to shore power.

Keep asking questions before you pull the trigger on anything. There are people in this forum that have the correct answers. I only know what I've recently learned here

Thx Motor, I'm trying to learn as much as possible before I pull the trigger.

I'm thinking a generator between 2 and 3000 watts is what I want and I only want to use it as a last resort and only to charge my batteries if no sun and/or shore power. :thumbsup:

 

[user 23166]

Excellent point. They pull way more than theory due to efficiency losses. A 100A probablly needs at least 2000 running watts. My 55A pulls pretty good on my 1400 running watt sportsman.


I said this (oversize your generator) to a lady here a month or so ago and was called an idiot I believe was the word....at least implied. 

Generators dont always output what they advertise and elevation robs power.

How many AH's are you replacing and how long does it take to charge them on your 55A charger using your 1400 watt gen?

 

[Elbear1]

How many AH's are you replacing and how long does it take to charge them on your 55A charger using your 1400 watt gen?

My bank is 235AH. I don't think of it like that. I run generator about an hour in morning then let solar take over. I have a powermax which lets you choose 3 stage charging or a contant voltage thats adjustable. I keep it on contant voltage set to 14.8v

 

[user 23166]

My bank is 235AH. I don't think of it like that. I run generator about an hour in morning then let solar take over. I have a powermax which lets you choose 3 stage charging or a contant voltage thats adjustable. I keep it on contant voltage set to 14.8v

is that a powermax CONverter?

 

[B and C]

I have a progressive dynamics converter (45A) that gives me filtered 12V DC also and use it to charge my 350Ah bank. I run my generator first thing in the morning to make coffee and bulk charge the batteries for a little while. Solar then takes over. I have a 350 watt MSW inverter that I don't remember the last time I turned it on.

 

[user 23166]

I have a progressive dynamics converter (45A) that gives me filtered 12V DC also and use it to charge my 350Ah bank.  I run my generator first thing in the morning to make coffee and bulk charge the batteries for a little while.  Solar then takes over.  I have a 350 watt MSW inverter that I don't remember the last time I turned it on.

TY B and C

Does that short bulk charge bring them back to full charge?
By my calculations I'll only be consuming 40-60 ah's everyday. Not a lot of consumption and if it doesn't take a long time to refill batteries with a generator/solar, it will allow me to stay dry boondocking for longer periods.

 

[B and C]

No, bulk charge is not a full charge. That short cycle is just to give the solar a head start on charging (and to make coffee). There are three charge cycles, bulk, absorption and float. Bulk is the batteries taking all the amps a source can give them while the voltage rises. When the voltage gets to a set point (somewhere in the 14V range) at that high amperage, it goes into absorption stage. Absorption is where the voltage is held at that higher voltage but the amperage the batteries will take tapers off. Absorption usually takes hours and is where solar shines (no pun intended). Float is when the amperage at the high voltage falls to a preset point somewhere around .5% of battery capacity. It then goes into float stage usually somewhere in the 13 something volt range. The batteries you get will specify these points for you.

I dry camp (boondock) almost exclusively except for some campgrounds to dump tanks and fill with water, laundry, etc. Most of the time I find dump and fill places and then go to a laundromat. Stop at a grocery store and gone again.

 

[wayne49]

I can say from experience that a 1KW generator (Yamaha) is definitely insufficient for a 60amp converter/charger.

Had I known that in the beginning, I would have purchased a larger generator.

A 30 amp charger, depending on how depleted the bank(s) are, may have to run for quite awhile per cycle.

You are confusing "inverter" and "converter". A converter converts AC input to DC output and can have battery charging circuitry.
An inverter converts DC input to AC output and it makes no sense to add battery charging capability to an inverter. What would be the power source for charging the DC side?

 

[highdesertranger]

Wayne believe it or not they are combining inverters and chargers. highdesertranger