Slept in 2006 Dodge Caravan Minivan WITH Diesel Heater - Nearly Froze

[ckelly78z]

A small 12 volt circulation fan mounted up near the ceiling will pull some of the warm air down towards you...run it on low, and it won't even really make a noticeable breeze.

 

[PeterPiper]

A small 12 volt circulation fan mounted up near the ceiling will pull some of the warm air down towards you...run it on low, and it won't even really make a noticeable breeze.

I added just such a fan......AFTER the last cold encounter.

Still, since then I've come a LONG way.   I now have a complete set of 1 inch thick insulating window covers which will make the most difference.
At the time this thread was started, the windows were bare and the frigid temps transferred through the glass as if they were open.

I was also sleeping on an air mattress on the floor.
Now I have a raised cot, 14 inches above the floor with two 3/4 thick closed cell foam pads .
I did it this way so I could still utilize the van as a normal minivan if I wanted to.

Also, the diesel heater is now properly installed and not running in through an open window.
Here is a picture of the OEM floor insulation that came with the van.  Not bad actually.
About 1/2 inch of composite and then 1/4 inch of carpet.  Which leads me to believe I was correct that most of the heat loss last time was not via the floor itself.

 

[PeterPiper]

So the Diesel heater is installed inside the van now with the exhaust hose passing through to the outside.
I think I've got the cold problem licked.  With it mounted inside (so I don't have to leave a window open) and no cold air coming in it really keeps the cabin comfortable.

Along with the new insulated window coverings and being raised off the floor 15 inches bring on the cold.

Did a test run today for just over an hour with all the windows closed......toasty warm on the lowest setting.....
Headed back to frigid temps next week.   Now I'm ready!

Just for overkill.....I keep multiple CO detectors in the van at all times.
CO detector after more than an hour with all windows and vents closed.....Nice DRY odorless heat.



I still think Diesel Heaters beat everything on running cost, low maintenance, safety and comfort.
Thought about a wood burning stove but too much hassle.  Too much ash, soot, flue cleaning, waste etc plus you have to find wood. Not to mention hacking up your vehicle.  The only attraction for me is the comfort of a glowing fire on a dark cold winter night.
Thought about propane....the stand alone cabin heaters create a sauna bath and running it costs a good bit more than the Diesel Heater.
Built in propane heaters are better but much more expensive and still propane to run them costs more than diesel fuel.

I can run my diesel heater for about 3 days on ONE gallon of diesel fuel.  Sometimes 4 days or more.  That's simply unbeatable.
Ok...there is one drawback to diesel heaters.....the fuel pump .....CLICK....CLICK....CLICK......CLICK........

 

[JDelete]

I've seen a solution for the clicky fuel pump. It is somewhere on this site—can't remember where.

 

[hugemoth]

Good way to help with pump noise is to suspend it with zip ties and wrap it with a piece of cotton bath towell.

 

[gtinseth]

Good way to help with pump noise is to suspend it with zip ties and wrap it with a piece of cotton bath towell.

Or a piece of foam swim noodle/pipe insulation around the pump then hang it like you said. There is also a guy in the UK that makes a pump replacement that is supposed to be silent, but it is about the same price as the whole heater was on Amazon. Check the facebook chinese diesel heater group for more info. James Browning-Smith is the builder/maker of that pump.

 

[vegan_vagabond_]

I 2nd the post that said ditch the air mattress. I once had to sleep on an air mattress in CA in the summer and I was freezing. I put a blanket beneath me and that helped.

 

[Vannautical engineer]

I even wonder if you could build a fresh air intake that was wrapped around the exuast if the disease heater that way it would even heat up the air flowing into the van hmm.. Just a thought..

NO! One leak in the exhaust pipe and now all of a sudden you have exhaust leaking into your cabin. Also be aware that if you're cooling the exhaust too much, you will have added condensation in the exhaust, and you'll need to ensure that is draining properly.

It is true that this is a similar concept as to how a modern high efficiency home furnace works, but they have a robust stainless steel heat exchanger that is designed for this. Not to mention an exhaust fume leak into a vehicle will build up a toxic amount of gas a lot faster than in a house.

I wouldn't try something like this. Exhaust fumes in a small enclosed space are nothing to play with, just get them out into the open air as fast as possible.

 

[Vannautical engineer]

I even wonder if you could build a fresh air intake that was wrapped around the exuast if the disease heater that way it would even heat up the air flowing into the van hmm.. Just a thought..

NO! You don't want to do anything to promote any possibility of the exhaust and the cabin air mixing. Also be aware that if you're cooling the exhaust too much, you will have added condensation in the exhaust, and you'll need to ensure that is draining properly.

It is true that this is a similar concept as to how a modern high efficiency home furnace works, but they have a robust stainless steel heat exchanger that is designed for this. Not to mention an exhaust fume leak into a vehicle will build up a toxic amount of gas a lot faster than in a house.

I wouldn't try something like this. Exhaust fumes in a small enclosed space are nothing to play with, just get them out into the open air as fast as possible.

 

[ky jr]

I 2nd the post that said ditch the air mattress. I once had to sleep on an air mattress in CA in the summer and I was freezing. I put a blanket beneath me and that helped.

i agree the cold comes right up through the air mattress i put a thin camping mattress between me and the air mattress no more freezing my butt off. it works

 

[JamesAdam]

The heater was set at 2.4hz and I could have raised the setting higher but I was concerned about running out of diesel fuel overnight.

The solution to this is to raise to 5.5hz (5.5 fuel pump pulses per second) to increase temperature.

This is the equivalent to saying " I didn't raise the Thermostat in my house above 60 degrees to save money. I nearly froze! Does anybody have a suggestion how to get the house warmer? I would suggest "Raise the Thermostat"!

Sorry, I couldn't help myself...

 

[PeterPiper]

The solution to this is to raise to 5.5hz (5.5 fuel pump pulses per second) to increase temperature.

This is the equivalent to saying " I didn't raise the Thermostat in my house above 60 degrees to save money. I nearly froze! Does anybody have a suggestion how to get the house warmer? I would suggest "Raise the Thermostat"!

Sorry, I couldn't help myself...

Hmmmm...it seemed obvious.
If I had raised the temperature to Max setting and run out of fuel half way through the night, would that have been better?
It seems you missed the point of not setting it higher. Unlike a home situation, there was a limited amount of fuel for heating available.
Had I done what you suggest, I could have been dealing with 30 degrees in the van instead of 45 ish

45 > 30

Hope that helps.

 

[PeterPiper]

I 2nd the post that said ditch the air mattress. I once had to sleep on an air mattress in CA in the summer and I was freezing. I put a blanket beneath me and that helped.

I ended up getting a folding Cot that is 14 inches off the floor with 2 inches of closed cell foam on top of that.
That made a world of difference.

If I had had that setup on the night in question I would have been comfortable.

 

[hugemoth]

It's not difficult to figure how much fuel will be used per hour since we know that each pulse of the pump is .022 ML. Mine is usually set at 2.0 pulses per second overnight which equals 24 hours per gallon.

 

[PeterPiper]

It's not difficult to figure how much fuel will be used per hour since we know that each pulse of the pump is .022 ML. Mine is usually set at 2.0 pulses per second overnight which equals 24 hours per gallon.

It depends. In certain situations it can be a hill too tall. Normally it wouldbe easy but....
In some cases fatigue and changes in elevation play a role.

Imagine......

Arriving at your destination at 2AM after driving 11 hours in a relatively small, fully loaded vehicle and it's 30 outside and all you desperately need at that point is rest. The tack no longer has a sharp point. That particular journey I was loaded to the gills with equipment for working at a project site where I needed to be the next morning. Took another 30 minutes to get situated.
Getting things reoriented just so you can get in the cot and go to sleep can be all you can do. More than likely other van dwellers know that situation and have been there, done that.

Besides, even if you calculate it, I was at a higher elevation and it would have run richer meaning my calculations (if I had had the clarity to take the time for them), could have been off and I still could have run out of fuel. The real problem wasn't even the heater, it was being on the floor of the van I know now.
I'd bet that I could have run the heater on max and it would have been just as cold on that floor on that air mattress.

Anywho, under those circumstances doing those calculations was not thinkable and could have been off. You'd just eyeball it and make a quick decision.
I did. Some heat vs potentially no heat. Little did I know how freezing cold the airmattress on the floor was gonna be. It was nice and warm starting about 14 inches off the floor.

Moral of the story....don't use an airmattress on the floor in cold weather.

Peace.

 

[hugemoth]

Pulses per second is pulses per second no matter the altitude. Yes it'll run rich at high altitude unless you adjust the air/fuel ratio but fuel use will remain the same. 1.3 pps is about 36 hours per gallon. 2.0 pps is about 24 hours per gallon. That is with the .022 ML pump that nearly all Chinese diesel heaters use.

First time I ever went backpacking as a kid was with a tube tent and a $10 sleeping bag with no sleeping pad. By morning I had learned the necessity of insulation from the ground.

 

[PeterPiper]

I understand the pulses are calibrated for a particular fuel flow. But it's a little more complicated. Ever had an air bubble in the fuel lines?
In fact, in several of my diesel heaters I have replaced the fuel pumps in order to adjust the fuel flow rate.
Fuel flow rate is dependent on the pump used.

The heat output will vary. Efficiency will be lower.

I have at least 3 diesel heaters and a variety of pumps and spare parts for servicing and adjustment.
One of the most critical things about these diesel heaters is having absolutely no air in the fuel lines.
The tiniest air bubble will lower the fuel pressure significantly and can even make it not work at all

 

[award]

So, this whole post was because you were pulling in cold outside air, trying to heat it, running it through an open window (I assume some sort of air tight rigging too) and sleeping on a cold air mattress (your body will never heat the mattress) on the floor with sheets and a blanket (not a sleeping bag made to keep you warm)?

 

[bpdchief]

Hi,
This is my first post. I came here because a few days ago I was in the North Georgia Mountains near Helen, GA and temps dropped below freezing.
But even a few days later when it only dropped to 44 degrees at night, I was still freezing.

I have a properly working 5KW Diesel heater that puts out plenty of dry heat, yet I was literally freezing in my 2006 Dodge Caravan and this is why I came to this forum today...to get help answers. I was not prepared for the inside of my van to be that cold with a 5KW diesel heater going.
It was as if the windows were open, but of course, they were not.

We can rule out the heater. It pumps out TONS of very hot, dry air. And I have two others so I can compare it to those.
It was definitely not due to a lack of heating by the diesel heater.

First of all, the upper, ceiling area of the van was quite warm, about 16 inches from the ceiling.....but down on the floor where I slept was 40 degrees or below. I slept on an inflated air mattress with sheets and comforters. Maybe I was naive to think the 5KW diesel heater would keep the van warm, or maybe it was just too drafty and/or un-insulated?

The heater was set at 2.4hz and I could have raised the setting higher but I was concerned about running out of diesel fuel overnight.

Im sure that some of you have slept in your van/mini van in colder weather so I'm wondering if you've encountered this and what I should do for next time?

Things I am going to do even with no advice......

1). Make window coverings because all that glass was ice cold and probably absorbed a lot of the heat and transferred it outside?
2). Insulate the floor. I think the steel floor acted as a freezer because of lack of insulation?
3). Create a divider curtain behind the front seats.
4). Insulate more. I plan to remove the rear panels and add insulation behind them.

Any additional thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Oh, if you are going to Helen, Georgia be fore warned, there is absolutely ZERO Sprint cellular coverage in that area.
My phone was totally useless until I was about 7 miles out of town.
Fortunately I always carry a backup secondary phone. TracFone worked just fine.

SEEKR by Caframo Ultimate Fan. Bought mine at Amazon.... super quiet, powerful and very low draw on battery. Put it out of the way, aim at ceiling and let it circulate the air. I used mine for a year in my van - way comfortable. Listen to HDR then man knows a few things.​

 

[PeterPiper]

So, this whole post was because you were pulling in cold outside air, trying to heat it, running it through an open window (I assume some sort of air tight rigging too) and sleeping on a cold air mattress (your body will never heat the mattress) on the floor with sheets and a blanket (not a sleeping bag made to keep you warm)?

Wait, are you trying to suggest a diesel heater can't heat the entire atmosphere?
How DARE you !!

ok, in all seriousness.......
In physics class I learned that compressed air gets hot.....well....wasn't the air n the air mattress compressed ? Where did I go wrong?