Should a solar setup be wired like this?

[Minivanmotoman]

A good friend of mine just wired up his solar like this. He asked for my opinion and told him that I know nothing, maybe some others might.

From your deep analysis and your electrical background, comments?

Main question is fusing and the bus bar links, ok?
Charge controllers are each wired to a pair of solar panels in parallel. 2 T105 Trojans.
Thx for your assistance.

 

[Trebor English]

Mine is wired differently.  At my battery I have an 85 amp maxi fuse.  The short wire from the battery to the fuse is so short that if the fuse catches fire and totally vanishes the burnt end of the wire can't reach anything grounded.  Some people have fuses bolted directly to the battery with no short piece of wire at all.  These pictures show batteries with no fuses and plenty of plywood kindling.  

My battery has a steel thing over the top that holds it in place rather than just a corner.  

There's a lot in those pictures I have done differently.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Thx for the response Trebor.
The are three fuses inline, two from the panels to the charge controller. And one from the battery to one of the charge controllers. They are scosche inline fuses for stereo amplifiers, currently 40 amps, but have 50 ,60 and 80 amp fuses can be plugged in.
They are the little black things in the red power lines, one is under the charge controller and it can easily be moved from the battery to just before the bus bar.
What else would you have done differently, comment away!

 

[highdesertranger]

why are there 2 charge controllers and where do they go? I am not saying that's wrong, just curious. highdesertranger

 

[B and C]

I guess I am missing it. I don't see a fuse between the positive battery post and the buss bar. I see a fuse from the charge controller going to the buss bar though. The other charge controller doesn't have one there.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

I guess I am missing it.  I don't see a fuse between the positive battery post and the buss bar.  I see a fuse from the charge controller going to the buss bar though.  The other charge controller doesn't have one there.

You're correct, it's after the bus bar and can be moved to before the bus bar.

 

[ZoNiE]

If it is fused like you say. that is probably fine, but I also don't see a fuse between the Controllers and the busbar.
The wire management is a mess and some of the connections look a bit rough.
Loose wires in a vehicle are a recipe for disaster.
The inverter isn't the best but those HF ones do work.
The batteries will eventually corrode the electronics and any arc's in the devices or loose connections could cause fire with the H2 gas from the batteries.
Also, Why two charge controllers?

 

[jimindenver]

Fuse/switch for one of the controllers, the inverter, the 12 volt panel and the positive bus bar.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I hope your good friend has good insurance.

 

[Weight]

Must be fixed first; Hold downs for the battery, close to 70 pounds each, sliding around while driving.. Catastrophic fuse at positive battery terminal. Then clean up the wiring rats nest.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Thx everyone for taking the time to respond.

1. Add more battery tie downs. Check.
They were wedged in on 4 sides tight, but easy to add the others.

2. Fuse from battery to bus bar. Check.
Where's a good place to get fuses that aren't Amazon btw? What about circuit breakers? Where?

3. Does every thing after the bus bar require a fuse, if the bus bar is fused, as well? In which case where to get economical fuses?

4. Rats nest wiring, get Wayfarin. Check, don't want no pesky rats getting in there. Lol.
Seriously, any suggestions as to how and where to run the wiring more securely? Good insurance I don't think really helps much Tex. Am sure your knowledge exceeds much more than that.
Support the wires securely with attachment, shortest lengths possible, and???
The routing is a challenge it appears here due to entry points and other constraints or limitations. But not everyone has a masters or experience in wiring so help would be appreciated I'm sure.

5. Hydrogen off gassing and corrosion, certainly an issue. Would proper ventilation and or open area be sufficient? No one wants to see the Hindenburg.

 

[Trebor English]

Thx everyone for taking the time to respond.

3. Does every thing after the bus bar require a fuse, if the bus bar is fused, as well?

If the fuse at the battery is sized for the smallest wire connected to the bus bar then additional fuses aren't required on each wire.

If there is a 100 amp fuse at the battery all wires need to be able to handle 100 amps.

Many people use fuse box for smaller fuses for smaller wires. The top photo, left of the solar charge controller, shows such a fuse box with only 2 of the 6 positions used. The wire to the fuse box needs to be protected. It is substantially smaller than the wire from the battery to the bus bar. It is substantially smaller than all the other bus bar wires. If the battery gets a fuse sized for the other wires then the wire to the fuse box needs to be embiggened to match the fuse or it needs a fuse at the point where the bus bar applies power to the skinny wire.

The fuse box itself has a rating. The rating of the fuse protecting the box should be should be less than the rating of the box.

Imagine taking a fat ground wire and touching it to every point in that picture. Ask, will it blow a fuse or start a fire? Which fires do you want and which fires do you want to avoid with a fuse?

 

[Master Mechanic]

positive from battery needs fuse and on/off switch. inverter connect to battery and again fuse it. cover battery terminals - battery box with hold downs. not looked at other parts yet . the wiring a rats nest.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

@Trebor, fuses it is, but again, where's a good cheap place to get online fuses? With all these fuses required, adds up.
@ MM, good points, cover battery terminals.
Thx for the suggestions so far.

 

[Master Mechanic]

View attachment 22699View attachment 22699View attachment 22698

@Trebor, fuses it is, but again, where's a good cheap place to get online fuses? With all these fuses required, adds up.
@ MM, good points, cover battery terminals.
Thx for the suggestions so far.

fuses are ok but i like midnite solar circuit breakers. i use a midnight solar big baby box. 2 controllers id do 2 baby boxs treat them as separate systems.
id change bus bars for Blue Sea Systems ST Blade ATO/ATC Fuse Blocks for smaller items.
attwood Battery Tray - The polypropylene hold-down strap has a positive locking, quick disconnect buckle.

added 2 picts of 12v system im working on.

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Great stuff MM. Nice.

There are lots of $$$ solutions that can be implemented by skilled $$$ professionals.

Sometimes, that just isn't realistic for some people and so they do the best that they can with limited skills, out in the boonies, with what they have, on a limited budget. CRVL style.
That's the challenge often.
That's the why here, for the critiqued setup, I think.
From allot of the comments and limited solutions beyond fix the rats nest, maybe many don't consider that.

Simple, cost effective and still safe is what is needed and what would be helpful.

 

[Master Mechanic]

Great stuff MM. Nice.

There are lots of $$$ solutions that can be implemented by skilled $$$ professionals.

Sometimes, that just isn't realistic for some people and so they do the best that they can with limited skills, out in the boonies, with what they have, on a limited budget. CRVL style.
That's the challenge often.
That's the why here, for the critiqued setup, I think.
From allot of the comments and limited solutions beyond fix the rats nest, maybe many don't consider that.

Simple, cost effective and still safe is what is needed and what would be helpful.

fuses and on off switch and battery mount u be safer. safety is main thing low budget or high dollar.
i do have skills and go for perfection. im not rich and in same boat as many here. i almost starved to death . had a stroke lost everything. been dead broke. 8 months no hot water. i just never give up and it does take me long time to buy solar items.
the midnite solar box and breakers dont cost alot.

 

[Weight]

Do not cheap out on wiring and fuses. I use http://www.genuinedealz.com/ and https://shop.marinehowto.com/products
Unless you are seriously over charging the battery, no need to worry much about hydrogen gas. Some people are troubled by the fume, I don't find it unpleasant. What is annoying, My CO detector will respond to very small amounts of hydrogen and blare out during solar charging.
A few zip ties and anchoring wires to a wood wall will go far to clean up the power area.
Rule; fuses are sized to protect wires. Different fuse used where wires change sizes. I use Blue Sea MRFB terminal fuse on the battery positive to bus bar, then on the positive bus bar for the inverter, chargers, and fuse block. Fuse block has ST blade fuses for the smaller circuits.

 

[B and C]

An electrical system is not the place to cut corners on fuses and switches and hold downs. What good is it if you saved $40 only to have your home burn down?

 

[Minivanmotoman]

NOBODY mentioned saving on fuses by not using them. One comment was made in regards to high priced, high end products.

Actually asked twice for cheap fuse sources and no responses so far...
Can suitable fuses and holders be bought at Home Depot?

Also asked about wiring location improvements and suggestions...

I do have a basic question from looking at the pic.
The positive bus bar and the flow of current.
With the battery, charge controllers and external accessories all attached at this common point.
So why doesn't the high power output of the solar panel not blow the fuses going to the external accessories?
Or for that matter, the battery capacity not overwhelm the system since they are all connected at the bus bar? Power is being charged and withdrawn, so how is it determined which goes where?

Another point that I find interesting, solar panels have 10 AWG to the charge controllers but require 4 gauge from the battery? Same power on both sides.