Refillable 1 Lb. Propane Bottles

[LoveCareThinkDo]

This is a pretty small bus (only 20 feet long, and not a lot of underneath clearance at all). The average space I have to park it in at a show is only a few feet longer than that, so I can't extend the length really, plus I like that I fit in a parking space now and I'm not psyched about changing that. HOWEVER after HDR's suggestion I'm thinking about mounting a small tank rack just big enough for a 20 pound bottle (upright) on the back, next to the rear door on the driver's side. The window there is covered by the side of my murphy bed anyway so I'm not getting any window use out of it. What do y'all think of that idea?

I think that's a great idea. You could take out the glass and cover that whole area with either sheet metal or just plywood to insulate that area a little better. As someone said, make sure that someone can't come around that corner and wack their face against a sharp edge. 

I gotta tell you there is a lot more room under the floor of those buses than you seem to think. The sides of the bus come way down below where the bottom of the floor is. In a skoolie that I did some work on, they had simply strapped a large cooler under the floor, under the shower, to act as a temporary water catchment. (yes, they would just reach under there and pull out the plug to drain the thing.) It was a very large, 30 gallon cooler. You could not even see that it was there if you didn't climb under the bus.

 

[Firebuild]

If you put it on the back up high like your picture depicts, be sure to leave clearance for your head (and others) when you round the corner.

OOH, great point, didn't really think about that. I just didn't want to cover up the lights. I thought about putting a cage above the door itself, but it would have to go sideways and I can't really afford one of those tanks. Plus at 5 feet tall I was just imagining climbing a ladder with a tank to put it in there.

 

[Firebuild]

I gotta tell you there is a lot more room under the floor of those buses than you seem to think. The sides of the bus come way down below where the bottom of the floor is. In a skoolie that I did some work on, they had simply strapped a large cooler under the floor, under the shower, to act as a temporary water catchment. (yes, they would just reach under there and pull out the plug to drain the thing.) It was a very large, 30 gallon cooler. You could not even see that it was there if you didn't climb under the bus.

Well I spent a good bit of time under there when I was pulling the seats so I'm skeptical but I will take another look.

 

[Matlock]

It was mentioned that it is OK to transport a 20# propane tank on it's side. I remember reading an interstate fire call report about this and wanted to offer something for the noob's about why one might not want to do this.

If propane tanks are stored improperly, such as on their side, with the relief valve in contact with propane liquid and the safety relief valve opens for venting because of heat or for any reason, liquid will be escaping instead of vapor, posing a real danger.

I'm sure many people have had years of trouble-free miles using various methods and positions for transport but wanted to mention that it might cause a problem when the vent valve freezes. Oh, and the horizontal propane tanks that you see mounted under the RV are designed to be mounted in that position.

 

[B and C]

The horizontal tanks don't need recertification either.

 

[LoveCareThinkDo]

It was mentioned that it is OK to transport a 20# propane tank on it's side. I remember reading an interstate fire call report about this and wanted to offer something for the noob's about why one might not want to do this.

If propane tanks are stored improperly, such as on their side, with the relief valve in contact with propane liquid and the safety relief valve opens for venting because of heat or for any reason, liquid will be escaping instead of vapor, posing a real danger.

Oh yes. I forgot to mention that I have magical powers, just like Bob. 
Where I store my propane tank is in the part of my car that is specifically designed to protect the passengers legs in case of a crash. That is why I chose to store it there. The way I see it, if I get into a crash that is bad enough to bend and break off metal parts that are protected by a steel rim, which is protected by the crumple-zone of my car.... then I will probably not care whether the leaking propane is gas or liquid. Where I store the tank is also one of the coolest locations on a sunny day, other than inside my fridge. When I am in the vehicle, I never let the temp get above 80 degrees F. So, the likelihood of said valve opening up is vanishingly slim. 
We kind of need a common FAQ with standard warnings about all this kind of stuff. Then we need a bot to automatically insert a link to said standard warnings every time certain keywords (such as "propane") are mentioned. That way, every time propane is discussed, we all don't have to go through this rigamarole of "That could be unsafe," "But everyone does it and never has a problem." I know I've been on your side of this conversation several times. You don't want people to do stupid things, but you can't keep retyping all the same warnings in every thread on every forum we participate in. It's tiresome for both sides.

 

[LoveCareThinkDo]

Well I spent a good bit of time under there when I was pulling the seats so I'm skeptical but I will take another look.

The horizontal tanks are longer and skinnier than a standard 20 pound tank. The one under my old RV was only about 12" in diameter. Maybe less. Everything on it was mounted on the sides so it left as much clearance under it as possible. 

Normally, the horizontal tanks are pretty expensive. Like over $200. But you may be able to find one in an RV salvage yard. Some people are gonna jump in and say you gotta get one with the newer style fittings. But on many horizontal tanks that I have seen, those fittings are screwed into pipes, and thus can be more easily changed to meet the new standards. You'll have to do your own research on all that. Just know that those issues are there. 

Now, another issue you will have with using a horizontal tank is that (I am pretty sure) their regulators are usually set to a higher pressure than standard 20 pound tanks provide. This means that using a regular cook-stove that is meant for use with a 20 pound tank would be a problem. The solution, is to either get a different pressure regulator and use all low-pressure appliances, or add a second regulator and make sure to always attach your low-pressure appliances to your low-pressure regulator. 


In the end, given all the issues at hand, your life might be made much easier just by sticking that rack over your back window, like you suggested earlier.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Now, another issue you will have with using a horizontal tank is that (I am pretty sure) their regulators are usually set to a higher pressure than standard 20 pound tanks provide. This means that using a regular cook-stove that is meant for use with a 20 pound tank would be a problem. The solution, is to either get a different pressure regulator and use all low-pressure appliances, or add a second regulator and make sure to always attach your low-pressure appliances to your low-pressure regulator. 

All of the horizontal RV frame-mount ASME tanks that I am famililar with have a two-stage regulator so that normal low pressure propane is supplied inside the coach.

In fact on the old Class A motorhome that I used to own, you could unscrew the fitting and hook up a portable 20# tank to supply the coach appliances with low pressure LP gas from that portable tank, if the main tank was empty.

 

[Firebuild]

We kind of need a common FAQ with standard warnings about all this kind of stuff. Then we need a bot to automatically insert a link to said standard warnings every time certain keywords (such as "propane") are mentioned. That way, every time propane is discussed, we all don't have to go through this rigamarole of "That could be unsafe," "But everyone does it and never has a problem." I know I've been on your side of this conversation several times. You don't want people to do stupid things, but you can't keep retyping all the same warnings in every thread on every forum we participate in. It's tiresome for both sides.

To be honest, I vaguely knew it wasn't recommended to store tanks sideways, but I'd really never heard WHY, which is important info in the process of deciding what risks I'm comfortable with (or how to mitigate the risk). For me the info was appreciated. I don't think links would really do it because I'm betting most people aren't going to click on them - I doubt I would. From my perspective, if someone is suggesting something unorthodox, it's probably a good idea to spend a sentence explaining what the risk is, what would offset that risk, and why the poster feels it's an acceptable risk. 

It's funny you would bring up Bob's "magical powers" statement; it made me very uncomfortable the way he threw off the 'crack a window for ventilation' line as if of course everyone knows you have to do that. That video is clearly aimed new van dwellers, and it's actually pretty counterintuitive that you'd open a window while trying to heat the vehicle, so to me it seemed irresponsible not to fully explain the risk, the solution, and why he's decided it's not enough of a risk to worry about. People tend to look at Bob as an authority figure so why be so glib about something that does have risk, no matter how slight? I wouldn't want to take on the possibility of someone else's misunderstanding. 

In the end, given all the issues at hand, your life might be made much easier just by sticking that rack over your back window, like you suggested earlier.

I did check out the horizontal tanks, and yeah, they're outside my price range. All that extra regulator stuff and whatnot sounds complicated. Again, given that I don't have super high propane needs, I'm trying to solve the issue in the simplest way possible. I think I will either go with one of the smaller tanks someone posted links to (thanks for that!), or else build the tank cage on the back - with a generous foam padding around it, because if anyone can crack their head open by forgetting something is there, it's me.

 

[highdesertranger]

yes I meant the proper tank. I know I didn't state that so thanks for pointing that out. I assumed everyone would know, and you no what happens when you assume. I would just pull one off a junk yard regulator and all. it might need a new flex hose, again only use the proper one. also any hard line must be pipe or flare fittings, nothing else is approved for gas. highdesertranger

 

[Firebuild]

Of course you could always make little hot dog cookers out of your spent 1 lb. bottles instead.

 

[Cinj]

There are 5 and 11 pounders (I own one of each) that might work well for you, and they ARE refillable at any propane filling station. Just be aware that they cost more than the 20 pounders, but they are very easy to handle even when full. 

In my opinion the little 5 pounders are of little value since they hold so little fuel, but if you know for a fact you wont be using much propane, they are available. They can work well for occasional cooking with table-top propane stoves, but are a very poor choice for a heating appliance.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Worthington-Pro-Grade-11-lb-Empty-Propane-Tank-281165/202034839

https://www.walmart.com/ip/5Lb-Propane-Tank/39086357

Good to know and thanks for sharing links on these!