Reason - Why there such a growth in vehicle living.

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ethnic and racial division is another way for them to keep us distracted. If you've noticed any trends in the last few decades, increased division, confusion, and chaos should be at the top of the list.
True that. (Disagree on whether immigration is likely to be net (+) or (-) for those of us already here, but at least that's something you can make a reasonable case for/against and think constructive thoughts about, instead of blindly passing on random Chicken Little from Hell stuff.)
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IMHO interest rates are not the problem. If you look at interest rates over 50 years they are close to what they are now & were pushed down by the gov to stimulate home sales. We paid 14% on our 1st home in '82 & got a 6 ARM when we bought the farm only because I knew it would be paid before any adjustment & it was in less than 2 years. See the graph
Here's an Associated Press article dated yesterday (April 12) reporting that many economists believe that immigrants not only haven't harmed our economy, they've helped it -- for example by stepping in to fill jobs during the current labor shortage.
Remember all the worry, when the Fed raised interest rates (to try to tame inflation), that this would lead to a recession? And how that recession so far (knock wood) hasn't materialized? Economists say you can at least partly thank immigrants for that.
So, go figure! Things are not always what they seem.
This is simply untrue. Every link I posted is from well within the last 10 years and the first two are from this year.
You have every right to disagree on how to interpret facts, but you do not have the right to state falsehoods. Your statement is false. That is not OK.

This resource says nothing about the question being discussed here. (Nothing. zero.) In other words, you have not supported your argument in any way.
Gr8ful I gotta admit I'm getting tired of spending my time chasing down your false statements and bogus links. You seem to think it's OK to create any sort of a brouhaha you want and leave it to other people to clean up.
If that sounds a little harsh, it's because I want to get you to think about what you are doing here -- and, if failing that, to get other people to think about how they decide what to take seriously.
We live in crazy times. There is no shortage of REAL crazy. There is no shortage of FAKE crazy either -- clickbait, rabble-rousing, attention-grabbing nonsense. And there is no shortage of people with something to sell (including your attention and clicks, which is one of the hottest commodities in today's market) who profit from your being upset and taking sides too quickly.
If you want to be an independent thinker, you've got to do more than just stay off "Fakebook," you've got to stay off ALL the fake "books" and really think about every idea someone pitches you. The more emotional the idea makes you, the more careful you should be.
I'm gonna post a couple of links to "how to avoid fake news" resources in a separate post and then that's me done with this topic. If someone wants to post another falsehood or crazy non-sequitur then I just hope people will think carefully before swallowing it whole.
Morgana, I could not agree with your observations more. I also use many of the same sources to guard against misinformation.
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Here's an Associated Press article dated yesterday (April 12) reporting that many economists believe that immigrants not only haven't harmed our economy, they've helped it
What "many economists say" lost all credibility for me a long time ago. Trickle down, free trade will make us all richer, marginal productivity product, a higher minimum wage will increase unemployment, we need tax relief for "job creators", etc... just to name a few. All easily shown to be bogus concepts with a little thinking... and proven so by history.

If you want to ponder a real mind blowing mystery, how about the economy being shut down by the government during the pandemic and the GDP tanking... and yet we had an economic boom at the same time, and the stock market soared! Remember the shortage of container ships and the ports not being able to handle the traffic because we were buying so much shit? They print $$$ that they don't extract in taxes; massive budget deficits. This is always stimulative. Same thing is happening now. Biden keeps looking for ways print more of it, especially because it's an election year (happens every time, not just him). He wants to make sure to push through more student loan relief, which will be more debt and more stimulus... and more votes.

We are spending much more to police the border, and process illegals, and support them financially than we are getting out of them in work. More debt and stimulus. Maybe they will eventually make up for it, but for now it's a big expense.

The only thing that naturally raises worker wages, is a shortage of workers. Importing low wage workers will create the opposite condition. Who benefits?
^^^... until we have a functioning House that can work with the Senate and the President[,] government is forced to do the best it can with what is has...
a -- The government agents care about the government agents.
If anything productive happens, they would suddenly sit, bewildered.
b -- The house-senate grifts function as the house-senate designed their grifts to function.
For that matter, 99% of the government agents is grift.
The rest is wasted.
c -- I get the impression you might think the government agents are in the 'helping folks' business?
Is that accurate?
Based on decades of evidence, the government agents are the equivalent of the 400# circus-lady rasslin' the midget.
He may have the advantage of mobility and speed, but sooner or later, she is going to suffocate the little guy.
[I am certain I started that with something in mind, but my point escapes me just now...]
^^^... you don’t shoot the horse because the saddle fell off! You put the saddle on better.
Is it cool to shoot the saddle?
And the reins and bit?
I ask because instead of relying on somebody to lead me, I do better leading myself around.
[edited to add]
Marginally, but still.
Note to Moderators [stands, salutes]:
Is there some way I can give this comment a 'LIKE!!!'?
^^^iI gave a like for you as I had a spare one! Lol!!! Well my viewpoint and attitude are probably different than most people’s. It really is hard to explain even to myself and not very logical thinking. Most people that come here are chasing some form of the “American Dream” believing that even if they don’t achieve it they and or their children will have a better life than where they came from in my experience. The economy seems to feed on cheap labor and to these people are grateful to get a job that doesn’t envolve risking your life to get enough food to not be hungry, some form of shelter even if it is shared with several others and not having to deal with daily theft of their property or sexual abuse. The opportunity for education and possibly advancement without money changing hands is what they are after. For most just the amount of money a minimum wage job here makes feeds several that wouldn’t get fed where they came from. Cheap labor means a lot to businesses in this country and now as it is getting harder and more expensive to import goods business is reaping the benefits of importing more cheap labor attempting to increase the number of financial slaves in my opinion. As the American people have become dumber because the education system has been underfunded and sabotaged ( I get a real kick out of listening to teachers and former teachers) people living here already also worked harder to get to the carrot of Social Security age wearing themselves out physically and mentally to a point we have an epidemic of physically disabled people and mentally depressed no longer willing or able to work trying to beat the odds and be successful but usually forced into living as cheaply as possible, usually in a vehicle for a while. Businesses are using government funds and policies to get cheap labor to continue to grow in my opinion. I’m seeing immigrants coming to this country beginning to organize and unionize much like the agricultural workers did 50 years ago. If fact many have better educations than citizens get in this country as far as street smarts go! Dealing with a manager here is a lot easier than a well armed cartel I imagine!
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TX2 I wouldn't have your job for all the tea in China (or all the beer in Abilene). :LOL: Thanks for what you do!(y)
Would you do it for all the whiskey in Wuscatooza?
How about all the sassparrilee in South Sarasota Springs?
I'd do it for the majority of the molasses in Manitova.
What say, Canadian folk:
* Does 'Manitova' sound vaguely Russian to you, too?
[nods to elicit reactive nods, too...]
What were we discussing, I got side-tracked.
Something about living in your car something.
Is there a poll, are we supposed to vote?
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@rruff I think economists should be taken with a grain of salt, too. The article is not the final word from Mount Olympus but it is something to think about.
We are in an unusual moment, economically, and this is one credible explanation.
I doubt the influence of foreign labor on wages is quite as cut-and-dried as you describe. In real life it looks much more complicated and dynamic. For example, when a business closes because it can't afford to hire staff, then a bunch of people's wages go from "crappy" to "zero."
This is NOT an argument for suppressing wages. But I think we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. When a statement as counterintuitive (to some of us) as this turns out to have some serious research support, it's worth at least stopping and checking it out.
^^^but one wants to stay there permanently and not be held to account at all while his party ransacks what is left of the country by force. I believe there are still smart people out there wanting to better not only themselves but this country even those that are not citizens and welcome anyone willing to try to make this world and our country a better place by protecting and upholding our Constitution.
@rruffWe are in an unusual moment, economically, and this is one credible explanation.
I don't find it credible at all.

We've been in a very incredible "moment" economically, since 2008. Actually scratch that... 2008+ has been a new kind of incredible, with even more rabbits being pulled out of the hat since 2020... but it really got serious way back in the 70s, with the big show happening ~1980. I keep expecting the house of cards to collapse, but then they pull out some new financial global-exchange-trade-debt wizardry and continue to kick the can down the road. I suspect they have a plan to keep that going until AI makes the whole system defunct.

If you sift down through all the smoke and mirrors... and the very deep steaming pile of BS... what the "economy" really is, is people working and providing goods and services to other folks who are working and providing goods and services. The more productively we do this (primarily through the intelligent application of tech and energy), the more aggregate prosperity/wealth grows... the size of the "pie".

In the "old" system it was very difficult for the oligarchs to take a bigger share of the pie for long. If they extract too much profit, then this naturally reduces worker wages and buying power, and if you are producing more goods and services you need to be able to sell them... to someone. In the 1920s this imbalance got to ridiculous levels resulting in the Great Depression. They learned their lesson... and structured the laws so that the workers share of the pie stayed steady until the 70s. Not surprisingly this arrangement is optimal for maximizing aggregate wealth too, which is important when you want to rule the world. Once that goal was accomplished (communist rivals being dead), they hatched a plan that would not only let them extract greater profits (at our expense, of course), but to do so from the whole world. The sudden shift in many policies that all came together to achieve this goal was amazing. It was absolutely planned from the start in detail, and I'm in awe of its brilliance. And the reason it has gone so well was because they got nearly all the oligarchs in the world on board... they've all been on the gravy train.

I don't think the oligarchs themselves are that smart... but they tend to be very clever and ruthless bastards, and are smart enough to hire the smartest people to figure these things out, and listen to them. And if you can put together a plan that benefits them all, you can be sure that will get done!

Make no mistake... none of what is really going on is happening by accident... and what is happening is what these people want to happen. I thought the system would collapse when private debt hit a ceiling in 2008... but they hatched a new plan to extract wealth from savers via "quantitative easing". It's important to note that no one got in trouble for the horrendous fraud scheme that caused the 2008 crisis in the first place... in case you are wondering where the power lies.

And now since 2020 it's apparent that fiscal debt escalation is the way forward. That one seems like it should have a practical limit as well, but Japan has been chugging along with a much bigger debt than ours for a long time, so who knows? We've built a lot of US$ security through deficit trade with China and other developing countries. So long as we remain world hegemon, and so long as there are countries looking to grow their economy through surplus trade and the US is willing to comply with deficit trade, this can probably continue for a long time. One thing I'm 99% sure of is that they have it figured out.

Anyway, this is a summary of my thought process that led to the realization that "power of the people" has always been a fantasy. The masses are manipulated to support their plan. When they needed us to be rich, and free, and happy... then we were. But their need for our compliance has been clearly tapering for many decades now, and their ability to keeps us divided and confused has grown to amazing levels... and will only get better. We are focused everywhere but behind the curtain.

And the more advanced AI gets, the better the manipulation will be, and the less they will need anything from us. The optimal outcome for them is a very small human population and a large AI slave force, that utilizes all the world's energy and material to build whatever the oligarchs want. That is their utopia.

Our utopia is one in which that AI slave force is working for us... everybody. But that will only happen if "power to the people" becomes a reality. And I fully expect they will keep us mollified with welfare as our work gradually becomes unnecessary. This is insufficient though, as it is only a stepping stone to their eventual goal. We need to control this ourselves. It would be extremely naive to believe that their "generousity" will persist when we merely consume and pollute and provide no benefit to them.

We need to stop buying in to the ridiculous "issues" they keep floating up to keep us tweaked and divided neatly into 50/50 camps. This bogus divide is the main thing keeping us powerless. If you want to do something then get to know how it is from the "other side" (or both sides if you have none)... listen with compassion. There is surprisingly little difference in what is most important to people. Freedom, autonomy, safety, prosperity.... that's about it. If we come together, we can make this happen, I think.

Else, I don't see how we will avoid a very different and shitty fate.
The unusual moment I'm referring to is more specific: the fact that the rise in interest rates has not, as expected (and as it usually does), led to a recession. This is a specific unusual phenomenon, and one potential explanation for it is the input of migrant labor.
This explanation may or may not turn out to be right, and it may or may not be the one each of us most instinctively resonates with, but it is definitely credible -- i.e., built on meaningful evidence with a reasonable argument -- and thus worth listening to.
The unusual moment I'm referring to is more specific: the fact that the rise in interest rates has not, as expected (and as it usually does), led to a recession. This is a specific unusual phenomenon, and one potential explanation for it is the input of migrant labor.
Yes, I know. But not only would the rise in immigrants not have that effect, there are other actions happening that do... chiefly a hike in deficit spending. The recent immigrations are definitely a drain on the economy at this point, not a bonus. The amount we are spending to police, process, house and feed them, probably outstrips even the amount that a small fraction of them might be earning, let alone the small fraction of that that's providing benefit to the country as a whole. Over time yes, they will likely be productive, but there is large investment in them initially. But I already said that earlier... so what is confusing?

Long term it would be good to ponder how "good" it is to import cheap labor at all, which clearly puts downward pressure on wages. Good for who? I guess it wasn't enough that we shipped all the jobs to low wage foreign countries that we possibly could, which is what has gutted unions and killed wages for 45 years.

Another point... the regular citizens of a country care about per-capita prosperity. The "owners" of the country are the only ones who care about the total GDP number, and increasing the population naturally increases this.
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When you think about it, we're all probably immigrants, or descendants of immigrants . Even the Native Americans are believed to came across the Bering Strait long ago. Then came Europeans hoping to find an express route to India in quest of spices. One of the more significant accidents of history.

Of all the building & infrastructure, it was made possible by immigrants.


Item: I once lived where I had a Native American neighbor from the Great Lakes area. Another neighbor married a Chinese girl and the first time she saw the Native American neighbor.....she couldn't believe he wasn't from China.

Until we stop electing Politicians who play us against each other while they do nothing and get rich doing it.....and bridle the unbridled capitalism that would put the ultra wealthy back in Eisenhower's tax of the 50's so they can't fund trouble makers such as Newt Gingrich, Reagan Limbaugh, Fox, and other pundits who weaponize politics against us, we will continue to suffer.

It's interesting to me that so many of the uber wealthy won't leave massive amounts of money to their heirs. They claim they will only get themselves in trouble with it. (Apple don't fall far from the tree does it ?)
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