Questions about Dremel use/charging

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Primal1

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I searched and didn't see anything but maybe I'm asking the wrong questions. I'm going to be living/working from my vehicle and I use Dremels extensively. I'm trying to figure out if I need to buy cordless Dremels and if so will I need a pure sine wave inverter to charge the 12v Lithium-Ion
batteries? Can I just get a PSW inverter and run a corded Dremel instead of the cordless?
 
I run a corded Dremel off a MSW inverter. no problems. extremely versatile tool. do they make a 12v charger for the cordless? highdesertranger
 
Do you happen to have a link to the Dremels you use?

In general I would say that any 12V-to-110V inverter can be used to charge you cordless dremel stations.

I would also think that any inverter can run you corded dremels.

Though PSW inverters are more expensive, they might simply work better and cause less energy loss in the conversion of those voltages.
But unless your tools/dremels have sophisticated electronics in them I doubt it will be a problem, even with modified sine wave inverters.


Well, to get closer to a realistic answer I tested my small dremel on a very inexpensive modified sine wave inverter. 
And it runs just the same as if it was plugged into wall power. 

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Okay. I just did another test. Mainly to get more info about the Ah usage.

The Dremel I have is with variable speed, and it turns out, that the variable speed basically did not work, when running on my modified sine wave inverter.  It runs fine at full speed, but that is basically the only speed where it works.
At full speed the amp draw from a 12V battery (well, a LiFePO4 battery at 13.9V) is about 6 amp. (13.9V x 6A = 83,4W) And this is when it is just running free. The label on the Dremal says it is a 125W motor, so once I start cutting anything, I expect the amp load to get higher.

So for a corded Dremel with variable speed, I would choose a Pure Sine Wave inverter. 


I see that the Dremel you have is a two speed version.  That one is likely to function fine on a modified sine wave inverter, as I expect the the speed setting is not electronically controlled, but rather mechanical switching between using different spools in the motor. 


Would the modified sine wave inverter bea ble to run the cordless charger? Yes I would think so, as I have run other cordless charger tools on my modified sine wave inverter, without any problem. 



But back to the Ah usage, and the question of how big a battery is needed, and how little solar might be enough. 
The Dremel 200  website says 120V at 0.9A = 108W

From a 12V battery that is about 9 amp. Then add some loss in the inverter and it will possibly take 10-11A per hour to run the tool. Probably a little less when the motor is only idling, and not being used for heavy cutting etc. 
But lets say an average of 10A per hour. 

When running at half speed, the power usage is likely to also be less, but perhaps not half.



200W solar panels might produce around 15A per hour with good sunny conditions. So while the sun is out, you could run your tool just fine. And any size battery would ensure that those few minutes without sun, your tool would keep running. 


Does these Ah calculations make sense to you? 



My next question would be, if you have any other power sources, for when the sun is not perfect, or when you choose to work outside daylight hours? 

And as big of a (car) battery as possible might also help on those days with less than perfect sun. 


A battery example
For a 33Ah battery it is advisable to only use half, in order to help the battery las as long as possible. So that is about 16Ah usable (when there is no or very limited sun).  Or 1½ hour of full use, and possibly 2 maybe 3 hours of use, when the tool is at half speed. 




The cordless Dremel only has limited information about the actual power of the tool, expressed in watt of the motor or watt of the battery, or how long it can typically run on a full charge. 

All I can find is, that it is 12V and the battery is 1 Ah, and typically takes 3 hours to charge. And that the 8220 runs 33% longer than the 8200 - when cutting screws. 
And the 8220 comes with two batteries. 


So it is very difficult to guesstimate much about Ah use, only based on data from the Dremel  website. 
But is seems that the battery might be a 12W battery. If the tool is only half as powerful as the Dremel 200, and about 1/3 as powerful as the Dremel 300, that makes it about a 40-50W motor and at full speed, it could then run 10-15 minutes on one battery charge.  


Does any of these thoughts and calculations make any sense or seem useful to you?
 
Wow, thank you Alvin! It does make sense (due to the fact this site has taught me quite a bit about solar/batteries since I started reading). It sounds like I can start out with the inverter and corded Dremels I already have and add another battery I can charge off the alternator for cloudy days. I'm planning on adding 200 W of solar as well to assist in charging. Great info, thank you, corded Dremels are half the price of the cordless so that's money I can spend on solar and batteries instead.

Thank you!!
 
frater secessus said:
Alvin - I appreciate the testing you do and the way you share the info with others.  Useful stuff.

Why, thank you. It is always nice to hear, when ones efforts are appreciated. So thank you :) 


Primal1 said:
It sounds like I can start out with the inverter and corded Dremels I already have and add another battery I can charge off the alternator for cloudy days. I'm planning on adding 200 W of solar as well to assist in charging. 

I believe your basic design will indeed be able to get you off the ground, and help you to get started to work off-grid.  

I do however also advice you to be aware of the level optimism used in the "calculation" of available power.  

To do something like this, on a limited budget, a certain level of optimism and hope is always a good thing. 

And then the design can always be improved, if it turns out that one more solar panel would make a huge difference in how deep the battery would be drained on a regular basis. 


I hope you noticed that a 33Ah battery only seems to give you power enough to run the Dremel for a rather short time? Like a few hours, but all depending on how continuous you use the Dremel tool. 


While observing on this site, did you also notice that charging a lead acid battery from the alternator, can take many hours. Especially from the 80% to 100% charged? 

So unless you have other reasons to drive for awhile, then charging from the alternator can turn out to be a necessary, but not optimal solution, especially not if it needs to be done on a regular basis?  


Either way, I hope your endeavor, and power usage patters, will turn out to be a perfect match for your 200W solar setup.
 
I did note the 33ah would be limiting, I'll also be powering a CPAP and other essentials, thus I planned a larger battery bank, probably 2 golf cart batteries (or a pair of learner batteries from Walmart), I haven't worked out my ah needs yet to decide how many AH I'll need.

One of my Dremel's was dying and needed a replacement so I figured I needed to buy the one I'd need on the road. I had not caught the part about taking awhile to recharge the batteries from the alternator though, thank you once again. I will be adding some extra panels over the 200W when I can afford it as well as adding this Gen/inverter combo. Eventually I'd like to have 600W-800W with some panels on a shed/shop to augment the Van's 200W.

https://www.amazon.com/WEN-56200i-2...=WEN+2000W+Inverter+Generator,+CARB+Compliant

Any pure sine wave inverter advice? I was looking at this KISAE with the idea it would serve me well as I upgraded and help run my grinder and other power tools....maybe even a small window unit if I'm really lucky (and have the 800W of panels and a larger battery bank).

https://www.amazon.com/KISAE-Techno...e+Power+Inverter2000w+pure+sine+wave+inverter
 

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