Question About Showering on BLM Land

[bullfrog !]

^^^lol!!! Tell me that when you step out at a new campsite and it’s sticky and smells like a truck stop overnight parking lot!

 

[rruff]

Many rules are written to avoid worse case scenarios

Exactly. The rule gives the ranger a means to quickly punish an egregious offender. The more popular and densely packed a camping site is, the more likely that dumping a 100 gal greywater tank is going to have adverse effects. Parked out in the boonies and using 1-2 gallons per week for washing dishes and yourself...?

Where I grew up in rural IL, sewage in the small town nearby was dumped into the stream that passed through town. Yes, it stank. On the farm we piped it out to a ditch nearby that also stank. Where I live now, dumping sewage into the river was the common practice back in the day. I'm definitely not advocating this, but treating everything we touch or expel as toxic waste is a bit silly...

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

Wash water is not a hazard, but that can't be said for all grey water. It is easier to prohibit all grey water than to specify an exception you hope will be correctly followed.

 

[mespringer]

There are several references to bacterial contamination from gray water in the discussion above. There are two broad classifications of bacteria: anaerobic and aerobic. Anaerobic bacteria do not live in an environment saturated with oxygen. That includes bacteria in our gastrointestinal tract. Anaerobes cannot live or replicate in an environment saturated with oxygen. Aerobic bacteria live and replicate in areas that have high concentrations of oxygen (normal air contains around 21% oxygen). Aerobic bacteria cover our entire bodies. Take your shirt off and you contaminate the area with enormous quantities of aerobic bacteria. Oxygen does not phase aerobes but sunshine (deadly UV rays) and a lack of water can kill most of them quickly. Soil contains a mixture of bacteria such as tetanus bacilli and other microorganisms that can cause infections but their role as a human pathogen is limited by our skin and immune system response. If you have fallen and "skinned your knee" the bacteria in the soil can proliferate quite easily in an open wound. That is why we wash the wound with water and soap and protect the open wound with some kind of barrier (a clean bandage being the most commonly used barrier). In a practical sense, if you throw your wash water into the air with a quick flip of your wrist, it will create small droplets that will dry and be exposed to sunlight. The use of chemicals in our soap products is another discussion but antibacterial soaps are everywhere. They reduce the burden of bacteria before the water hits the ground. Someone mentioned the stench that is inherent to gray water. Vans seldom have a gray water tank larger than 10 gallons. If you use a small amount (1/2 tsp) of "enzyme" deodarizer in the gray water tank it will eliminate the unpleasant odors.

 

[hwdean]

Here is my first post - Never trust legal (or health) advice given in a non-professional forum. Lots of BLM says this or that here but no quotes....so here we go:

According to CFR Title 43, § 8365.1-1 Sanitation,

(b) On all public lands, no person shall, unless otherwise authorized: (3) Drain sewage or petroleum products or dump refuse or waste other than wash water from any trailer or other vehicle except in places or receptacles provided for that purpose;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/43/8365.1-1

Note that the regulation does not specifically define, “wash water”, but it is understood to mean any water that was used for washing purposes (i.e. hands, dishes, showering, clothes, brushing teeth, etc.), which meets the definition of gray water

 

[BelgianPup]

Reading these posts, for some reason, I thought of septic tanks. They've been around for quite a while, and they're still being installed. People put urine, poop, and all kinds to pharmaceuticals into them.

Just a passing thought......

 

[user 22017]

Here is my first post - Never trust legal (or health) advice given in a non-professional forum. Lots of BLM says this or that here but no quotes....so here we go:

According to CFR Title 43, § 8365.1-1 Sanitation,

(b) On all public lands, no person shall, unless otherwise authorized: (3) Drain sewage or petroleum products or dump refuse or waste other than wash water from any trailer or other vehicle except in places or receptacles provided for that purpose;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/43/8365.1-1

Note that the regulation does not specifically define, “wash water”, but it is understood to mean any water that was used for washing purposes (i.e. hands, dishes, showering, clothes, brushing teeth, etc.), which meets the definition of gray water

That exact quote and link has already been posted twice in this thread Thx.

 

[Tony's Dream]

We live in a world of freedom. We should all recycle, but most people don't. You aren't suppose to throw used batteries in the trash, but most people do. You are'nt supposed to drain your grey water, but many people do. Some take precautions and use proper soaps which is great, but some people don't. Each person must make their own decisions and hopefully do what they do responsively.

 

[user 22017]

We live in a world of freedom. We should all recycle, but most people don't. You aren't suppose to throw used batteries in the trash, but most people do. You are'nt supposed to drain your grey water, but many people do. Some take precautions and use proper soaps which is great, but some people don't. Each person must make their own decisions and hopefully do what they do responsively.

From the comments on other forums regarding grey water, it sounds like most people do not dump it on the ground. Quite the opposite... which is surprising.

 

[Tzygania]

My guess is if you keep the water volume down to few gallons and use a natural soap it shouldn't matter too much. What are some decent soaps that can be used for this purpose?

Castile unscented was what I had to use when I stayed on an organic farm.

 

[RonDean]

Castile unscented was what I had to use when I stayed on an organic farm.

When I was a small child we would visit my GGMother in the Midwest. She had neither electricity nor running water, except for the hand pump on the back porch. No shower, but we would drag out a big, galvanized metal pan that was big enough for me to sit in next to the wood burning cook stove. After my bath they just poured the water on the ground. Out past the outhouse and barn there were corn fields as far as the eye could see and to my knowledge it was never affected by my bath water.

As I have said before, there is a difference between what is permitted and what is likely to cause harm. Not to mention the details of the activity. In this case we are talking about standardized rules written to avoid any possible harm in ALL camping or park situations. Reminds me of building regulations that were not intelligently thought out. I owned a home in a dry location where we were always short of water. Yet the regulations insisted I use flush toilets that wasted almost 2 gallons of potable water with each flush and said I could not water ANY of my shrubs with graywater. That was STUDID! --- IMO.

 

[Tony's Dream]

From the comments on other forums regarding grey water, it sounds like most people do not dump it on the ground. Quite the opposite... which is surprising.

I think that is because when most people talk about gray water.......they are talking about larger storage tanks, like their black water tanks. There are many people, myself included, that have small gray water "tanks" (a gallon or less) that simply catch water from our sinks. I think the amount of gray water being dumped might determine if people would dump it on the ground.

 

[afblangley]

There are four issues that need to be addressed when it comes to designing a shower system: water source, power source, space, and grey water drainage. My personal criteria required having clean, hot water flowing over my body. Therefore, using a sponge repeatedly dipped into a bowl of water, or using baby wipes were not acceptable solutions for me. I bought a Geyser shower and it was worth all of the 35,000 pennys it cost. It works exactly as advertised: using less than a gallon of water you can choose a 1 to 15 minute long shower.

I use the ubiquitous 1 gallon water jugs for water storage because they can be purchased or refilled anywhere. There are multiple ways to heat water, all requiring some combination of time and power, the Geyser is no exception. But the water pump uses very little power while showering. Since it oozes water instead of spraying it, a shower curtain isn’t needed. Neither is a shower pan. An absorbent mat/towel can be used to recapture the water.

From the first time I used the Geyser, I felt it delivered a shower experience that was in some ways better than in my class A or even in my house. I was apparently not alone in that thinking, because the company now sells setups for those uses. Even when there’s an unlimited supply of hot, pressurized water, it’s nice to have it dispensed from a sponge.

 

[user 22017]

There are four issues that need to be addressed when it comes to designing a shower system: water source, power source, space, and grey water drainage. My personal criteria required having clean, hot water flowing over my body. Therefore, using a sponge repeatedly dipped into a bowl of water, or using baby wipes were not acceptable solutions for me. I bought a Geyser shower and it was worth all of the 35,000 pennys it cost. It works exactly as advertised: using less than a gallon of water you can choose a 1 to 15 minute long shower.

I use the ubiquitous 1 gallon water jugs for water storage because they can be purchased or refilled anywhere. There are multiple ways to heat water, all requiring some combination of time and power, the Geyser is no exception. But the water pump uses very little power while showering. Since it oozes water instead of spraying it, a shower curtain isn’t needed. Neither is a shower pan. An absorbent mat/towel can be used to recapture the water.

From the first time I used the Geyser, I felt it delivered a shower experience that was in some ways better than in my class A or even in my house. I was apparently not alone in that thinking, because the company now sells setups for those uses. Even when there’s an unlimited supply of hot, pressurized water, it’s nice to have it dispensed from a sponge.

Is this what you bought? A couple things: some ppl won't want to use the same sponge for dishes and for their bodies. Additional sponges are $16 each. How long do they last?

Also, from the comments and rating thing it looks like the main weakness is that it doesn't get hot enough. How often have you used it?

I'm curious what detergents are used.

$389.00 is too high for me.

https://a.co/d/3yIWe7h

 

[bullfrog !]

A video stated it came with a sample of environmentally friendly soap and 3 sponges for different or to be determined uses. It seems to me a 2 liter black bottle sprayer with a screw on adaptor/hose/sponge with preheated water (100 degrees isn’t all that hot) could serve the same function much more cheaply and efficiently. I do like that it is 12 volt DC and doesn’t use propane.

 

[rruff]

$389.00 is too high for me.

Ya, if it's cold or not sunny, it isn't that hard to heat a small pan of water and use that to wash. I'm skeptical that "less than a gallon" in a fancy contraption that needs expensive solar electricity for heating, and dribbles moisture, is going to give me more of a "real shower" experience. I feel refreshed and clean already, doing what I do... and look and smell so, based on the testimony of others.

 

[hwdean]

. I bought a Geyser shower and it was worth all of the 35,000 pennys it cost. It works exactly as advertised: using less than a gallon of water you can choose a 1 to 15 minute long shower.

I use the ubiquitous 1 gallon water jugs for water storage because they can be purchased or refilled anywhere. There are multiple ways to heat water, all requiring some combination of time and power, the Geyser is no exception. But the water pump uses very little power while showering. Since it oozes water instead of spraying it, a shower curtain isn’t needed. Neither is a shower pan. An absorbent mat/towel can be used to recapture the water.

From the first time I used the Geyser, I felt it delivered a shower experience that was in some ways better than in my class A or even in my house. I was apparently not alone in that thinking, because the company now sells setups for those uses. Even when there’s an unlimited supply of hot, pressurized water, it’s nice to have it dispensed from a sponge.

It seems they are charging that much for a fancy package . You can get similar experience for about 50 bucks or less using something like this https://amzn.to/49dOsRk

Plus its more efficient since it has many more uses and packs nicely. But to each his/her own.

 

[user 22017]

It seems they are charging that much for a fancy package . You can get similar experience for about 50 bucks or less using something like this https://amzn.to/49dOsRk

Plus its more efficient since it has many more uses and packs nicely. But to each his/her own.

I use something similar, by Ivation, that works great and is $34. My grandchildren love playing with it and I let them because the charge lasts a long time. I just drop it in a collapsible bucket filled with water.

Here: https://a.co/d/bRf0KcG

 

[rruff]

I love how the price keeps dropping with each response....

A sunshower uses gravity instead of a pump or pressurized tank, but you have to lift it up too, which can be inconvenient. The valves kinda suck also. Plus I usually want to wash in the morning before I go to town, so I end up using the propane stove to heat water anyway.

I'm fine doing a no-rinse wash/scrub with one of those long knit "sponge" things on my body. Maybe a quart of water? But even though my hair is short, it takes a bit more for a good rinse.

 

[afblangley]

I am really picky when it comes to showers. The Geyser is my third iteration. My first was an Ivation battery powered shower head. It didn't deliver adequate water pressure. My second was the Sun Joe battery powered spray washer. It was noisy and cumbersome to use. In addition, both required the use of a shower curtain to contain the spray and a shower pan to capture the water, which my van build doesn't have. Furthermore, I like showering on a daily basis, which typically requires large fresh and grey water tanks.

I was very skeptical when I bought the Geyser, I had every intention of returning it. I was throughly surprised by how refreshed I felt after using it. And it really does use less than a gallon of water to achieve this. At home, I normally squirt soap on a loofah and rub that across my body. The Geyser delivers a similar experience. I set the speed to medium which oozes water out at a rate of ~12 oz per minute. With this continuous flow, I apply soap a couple of times while making multiple passes over my body. I then rinse off (my body and the sponge) by switching to a medium flow rate, which oozes at ~24 oz per minute. The whole process takes 5-7 minutes.

I've owned my Geyser for more than a year, and I've used it a couple of dozen times. I've replaced the sponge twice, as a matter of hygienic principle, not because it was worn out. The sponges are $10 each. I do not use it for doing dishes (my build has a sink with running water). It seems like it would do a great job, although I have no experience with that use case. But I do use dish soap as body soap ...

For folks that are accustomed to super hot showers, the Geyser may feel lukewarm. The heater turns off at ~100F, though the pump remains operational at higher temps. In the cooler months when I want a hotter shower, I bypass the built in heater and bring it to my desired temperature by inserting a sous vide rod.

Like other premium products (read: RinseKit Cube), the Geyser is expensive. But it is a well engineered piece of kit by a US based company. There is nothing comparable to it on the market. There are many ways to stay clean on the road, most of them cheaper than the Geyser. But when it comes to ultra low flow showers, in my opinion, it is the best. I'm hoping they release a battery powered model that will allow it to be truly mobile.