Propane heater headache

[HarmonicaBruce]

According to the Mayo clinic,

"Signs and symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning may include:

Dull headache
Weakness
Dizziness
Nausea
Vomiting
Shortness of breath
Confusion
Blurred vision
Loss of consciousness
Carbon monoxide poisoning can be especially dangerous for people who are sleeping or intoxicated. The fumes may be fatal before anyone realizes there's a problem."

Yes, it will kill you. Even though you should realize you have it, you're confused, and just want to lay down. And you never wake up. I tried using a little propane heater. To use it and not die, you need to open windows. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting warm when it's cold outside?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Sleeping bag, long underwear, stocking cap.

I have a carbon monoxide tester, and that's just for the little alcohol stove I have to make coffee. I've slept in my van with the temperature in the teens without any heat, it was cold, but I lived.

 

[ccbreder]

No, spiff. I disagree. True only for a moment. But due to what is called the dissolvability of said gasses in the atmosphere of the room, CO and CO2 disperse.

 

[cinemaphonic]

Thanks guys. This thread turned out to be really informative. I can't afford to get a roof vent installed right now, but my van has all kinds of windows that I can open. I also bought a couple of small USB computer fans that I'll stick the windows to pull air in and push some out. In addition I have another small fan that I'll mount on the ceiling to push the pooled up hot air around.

Any tips for staying stealth while needing to vent but not having a roof vent?

I'm hoping to not have to city dwell for very long as I'm really doing this to isolate myself for a while. With my dog of course (an additional source of heat )

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

No, spiff. I disagree. True only for a moment. But due to what is called the dissolvability of said gasses in the atmosphere of the room, CO and CO2 disperse.

Ccbreder, I respectfully dissagree. The condition of higher oxygen concentration lower will exist as long as the heater exhausts hot gasses (we are not talking about a furnace that exhausts combustion byproducts to the outside). How long it takes to mix is a complex environmental problem involving heat transfer, convection currents, and temperature gradients and is very dependent on the enclosure. Smoke and CO detectors are placed high for this reason.

...
does the oxygen deplete from top to bottom (roof to floor?) also I assume there are some kind of fumes. ... I love my heater and hate the cold and would really like to know the dynamic of how it actually works in more detail.

To reiterate:
Someone breathing air close to the ceiling (in a room with Buddy or Wave heater going) will feel the effects of low O2 or elevated CO before someone breathing air close to the floor.
Fumes are dependent on what else is burning; dust, pollen, socks hung too close to the heater, ...
Heaters work like fireplaces (chimney effect). Heated air rises, creates a vacuum, drawing cooler air into the heater from below.

Hope I answered the question without becoming too obtuse

-- Spiff

 

[akrvbob]

These heaters produce so much heat that they overwhelm the small amount of cold air allowed in by ventilation.

The bottom line is if you open both front windows an inch you will have enough ventilation for most heaters (read your owners manual to be sure, don't guess!!). And the van will be drastically warmer because it puts out much more heat than cold air it draws in.

My goal in this life is higher than simply surviving a miserable night of not freezing to death by huddling in a sleeping bag. If I can't be comfortable and happy, I need to make some changes.

The sun is down by 5 pm I don't go to sleep under the sleeping bag until 10 pm. I simply refuse to spend the best moments of my life in misery because I'm afraid to use a heater that if used correctly is perfectly safe. I'm a vandweller, not a cave-man; although to be honest, there are people who would dispute that!!!!

But everyone has to make their own decisions based on their pain and risk tolerance. If you'd rather be cold than risk a heater, that's a perfectly valid decision, just not the one I make.

Bob

 

[ccbreder]

I'm with Bob.

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

yeah, the heater produces so much heat i wind up increasing ventilation just to regulate temps. the cold produced by the minimum safe ventilation even in freezing temps is a pittance to a buddy heater.
people use these things in hunting blinds.

 

[pseudo_mccoy]

Here is me testing CO in that van with the roof vent and rusty holes

Those who do something “just to see what happens” are the true heroes of youtube. Thanks for intentionally closing your vent so we don't have to.

Holding the detector in front of an exhaust pipe may have coated/degraded the sensor. Idk for sure and forget what I read to make me think that. I just think those things are delicate.

 

[Sameer]

DazarGaidin...I do the same thing by adjusting the heat with opening windows....I actually like it because I can be toasty warm and have wonderfully fresh air at the same time...I also like driving in cold weather with the van heater blasting on high and the windows 'mostly' down.....Fresh Air and Toasty Warm...Hahahaha! I love it!

 

[highdesertranger]

Sameer I am with you 100%. I have actually had ice form on my hair on the window side while driving in a freezing rain. highdesertranger

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

re exhaust pipe...well like i mentioned it alarmed in just seconds...and it wasnt pressed against the pipe just held in the fumes. maybe it degraded it but i dont think so. it still works in vid
i needed a worst case test for my comfort, i was prompted to buy after getting sick from car next to me fumes.

---

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=6524

 

[cinemaphonic]

So I got a CO detector. A Kiddie with a CO level display. I've been doing trials runs in the van with Mr. Heater on high for a few minutes then down to low. I've been monitoring it and trying to make sure that the ceramic plate stays orange and not with bluish flames.

However, I am still having the same issues I reported in my first post in this thread. I don't quite know how to explain it. The symptoms aren't too extreme, I just feel a little weird. I had my roommate come in and hang out with me for 10 minutes in the van and he had a similar experience. He simply said, I feel kind of weird. It's not like I feel like I'm going to pass out or getting confused. It's almost like having sinus problems without the drippy nose, my head just feels stuffy I guess.

I've been cracking each of my windows 2-4 inches, and I even installed a couple of small usb PC fans. 1 faces out to push air out, and another faces in to pull fresh air in, and still I'm getting the same effects. Meanwhile, the CO detector shows nothing. I have it mounted high, and no beeps, or CO levels going up on the display.

Is this normal, or might there be something wrong with my heater?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ccbreder]

"Heat and smoke rise, which is why we place smoke alarms high on the wall or ceiling. Carbon monoxide, however, mixes with the air. For this reason, it is preferable to install CO alarms at knee level – the approximate height of a sleeping person’s nose and mouth."

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

not sure on this one. i know my eyes dry out pretty bad when i run mine a while, maybe its buggin your sinuses or allergies or something. cracking a window near me or widening my vent seems to help me if i get overheated or dried out.

if you dont feel safe maybe the body warmth/bag method is in order. i have used those electric blankets with middling success.

 

[akrvbob]

I have a friend who is literally allergic to propane, she can't be around it no matter what the appliance is. As unlikely as it seems, it is possible.
Bob

 

[SternWake]

Propane itself has no smell, they actually add the Sulfur type smell to it. I've noticed there is a slight smell difference between Coleman and benzomatic and Warrington green cannisters. Perhaps it is the added scent which is causing the issues. Total guess though.

 

[ccbreder]

I'm with Sternwake. Propane is a manufactured gas and has no measurable contaminates except what is used for odor protection. The only emissions of a properly functioning burner would be water vapor and carbon dioxide, plus what ever chemical is added for the odor. Different suppliers different chemicals or amount of chemicals added.

 

[LeeRevell]

I can understand the allergy thing, as I know people who are severely sensitive to many chemicals. Even if something cannot be smelled, it can still cause the reaction.
I am like that with cats - I may not smell the critters, but pretty soon I have watery eyes and sniffles, and a sick feeling. First thought it was a cold coming on, but when I left all went back to normal. Otherwise I kinda like kitties.......

 

[GotSmart]

According to the Mayo clinic,

"Signs and symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning may include:

Dull headache
Weakness
Dizziness
Nausea
Vomiting
Shortness of breath
Confusion
Blurred vision
Loss of consciousness

Are we talking about my ex wife?

I bought the fancy California and Canada approved Buddy.

Just running it on pilot gives enough heat to keep me comfortable. BUT~~~ it had not gone below freezing when I was using it.

 

[highdesertranger]

ha ha gotsmart. highdesertranger