Power Consumption 12 V Cooler VS 12 Fridge

[MaxfieldMax]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Hello everyone.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Do you guys have any experience with cooler and fridge in term of power consumption?[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]From what I read online.First they both can operate on 12 V.  For a more specific example.  [/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]FM-45G Whynter 45 Quart Portable Fridge Voltage power AC (115V/ 60Hz – 65W/ 0.75A) or DC (12V/24V – 4.5A /2.5A Car Lighter Socket)[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]On the other hand,  Coleman 40-Quart Wheeled Cooler 12V plug (5 Amps/60 Watts) with an 8-ft.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Which one requires more power to operation continuously to keep drink cool, 24/7[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]From what I read online, the fridge seems like require less power because they don't alway run compressor.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]On the other hand, the cooler will run the fan always, which end up requiring more Amp hours to run them 24/7. Is that correct?[/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Assume, You are two 12 V batteries in parallel, which has total 270 amp hours. At the same time, you have a 100 Watt solar panel to charge the batteries. Do you think if can run the cooler 24/7 with the current setup? [/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Thank you so much for all your inputs [/font]

 

[Trebor English]

The cooler takes 5 amps always, a 100 watt panel makes 5 amps when the sun is shining.  That leaves you with a deficit of 12 hours of 5 amps.  To run the cooler from a battery will need 300 watts of solar and then the cooler still isn't cold enough to keep food below 40 degrees when the ambient is 90.

The cooler is ok to have in the car to take drinks to the beach.

 

[highdesertranger]

a little more detail,

the cooler use's 5amps continuously(100% duty cycle) the refer turns on and off just like the one in your house the duty cycle for the refer is usually in the 20 to 40% range. so in a hour the cooler uses 5A and the refer uses 1.35A @ 30% duty cycle big difference.

also the coolers only cool 40 degrees below ambient under the best conditions so if it is 90 degrees ambient the inside of the cooler will be 50 degrees. I find that 40 degrees to be rather misleading I think they only achieve that under lab conditions in real life my experience has been around 30 degrees. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

The cooler is ok to have in the car to take drinks to the beach.

To clarify, that's just about all they're good for.

Bottom line is, don't bother with these powered coolers to run off solar or for van living generally.

If you get one for free, get what you can for it and save up for a decent 12V fridge.

 

[RoadtripsAndCampfires]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Hello everyone.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Do you guys have any experience with cooler and fridge in term of power consumption?[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]From what I read online.First they both can operate on 12 V.  For a more specific example.  [/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]FM-45G Whynter 45 Quart Portable Fridge Voltage power AC (115V/ 60Hz – 65W/ 0.75A) or DC (12V/24V – 4.5A /2.5A Car Lighter Socket)[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]On the other hand,  Coleman 40-Quart Wheeled Cooler 12V plug (5 Amps/60 Watts) with an 8-ft.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Which one requires more power to operation continuously to keep drink cool, 24/7[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]From what I read online, the fridge seems like require less power because they don't alway run compressor.[/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]On the other hand, the cooler will run the fan always, which end up requiring more Amp hours to run them 24/7. Is that correct?[/font]

[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Assume, You are two 12 V batteries in parallel, which has total 270 amp hours. At the same time, you have a 100 Watt solar panel to charge the batteries. Do you think if can run the cooler 24/7 with the current setup? [/font]
[font=Helvetica, Arial, 'Nimbus Sans L', sans-serif]Thank you so much for all your inputs [/font]

I feel a need to respond here, not about the question you asked but to state that I bought a Coleman 12v cooler a few years back and it quit after a few months.  I recently asked about 12V fridges on this forum and got a lot of thrumbs up for the TruckFridge and Whynter so I am passing that along to you regarding brands.

 

[tx2sturgis]

These guys and gals are giving the correct answers, as always.

But, the bottom line is this:

For the amount of money you SAVE buying a thermoelectric cooler, you WILL be buying more solar panels and batteries to run it. Period.

If you spend more $$$ on the 12v compressor fridge, you will SAVE money on the panels and batteries.

There are a few thermoelectic coolers with a thermostat, and they MIGHT save a bit of DC amperage IF they are used in cooler ambient temperatures.

If you are constantly driving and traveling and you have alternator charging the batteries for several hours per day, then it MIGHT make sense.

I wore out (and rebuilt) about three of those thermo coolers in about 15 years but that was in the truck, OTR, and the engine was running (obviously) about 10 to 12 hours per day. The inside of the cab was climate controlled so no high ambients to worry about. And STILL...they cannot keep anything frozen. Cold yes, but not FROZEN.

If we forget to empty and unplug the cooler over a 2 or 3 day weekend, the 4 heavy duty truck batteries were DEAD (or very weak) by the time we wanted to start the truck on Tuesday morning. (no solar on a semi!)

Yep...spend the money wisely if you value the food in there!

 

[John61CT]

Actually a 40' container would make a sweet conversion, talk about room for panels up top!

Rent the trailer when needed, just need to figure out a cheap setup for getting it on and off out in the middle nowhere.

 

[jonyjoe303]

For a 12 volt fridge (set to 40 degrees) I was able to run one nonstop 24/7 for months at a time on a 120 watt panel and a 75 ah agm battery, battery only charged by the solar panel. 

But this was only when I had perfect weather, when it was cloudy the fridge usually stop working around midnight from low battery, but everything in fridge was able to stay cold until the sun came up and recharge the battery. But in southern california cloudy weather was rare.

270 ah of battery would be 135 ah of usable power.

 

[DLTooley]

If my math is correct, amp hours for a solar panel are at the panel's ~ 18.9v output, not 12v. The better alternative to a 12v compressor fridge is running a 120v appliance off of an inverter, which need not be huge. There are people here who have done it. I personally would try it with a used appliance and expect vibration damage at some point.

 

[sephson]

I have a request if it's okay with the OP.

Can we add 120 volt cube refrigerators in the 1.5 to 2.0 cubic foot range to the discussion for comparison's sake?

 

[John61CT]

Better in what sense?

Maybe you just mean the fridge is cheaper?

Nor designed for portability or bouncing on down the road for years.

Not going to be nearly as energy efficient, need bigger solar panelage and batteries as already stated.

So maybe not cheaper overall.

 

[jonsun]

cube fridges have rubber feet on the compressor. not sure how much dampening any other fridge could have but there's been little if any breakdown issues reported. but for $60 you can go through about 10 of them before you break even.

 

[Zizzer_Zazzer_Zuz]

I have an Engel 45qt fridge/freezer. I have been using it on 120AC for months as a freezer.

As an experiment I used the Engel in conjunction with a Yeti-knock-off freezing ice packs and using the yeti for what little refrigeration that I needed swapping out ice packs every morning and pulling out dinner from the freezer. This worked OK. I had little spoilage and all of it could be attributed to me and my neglect of swapping the ice-packs. I would say that as a long term solution this is not ideal. For weekend warriors, vacations and even extended roads trips this is totally doable with just a little effort. Every day for months and or years? It gets to be a lot of maintenance.

Recently I came across some surplus medical transport coolers. The unit itself is hardened plastic, insulated like a Yeti, and has a built in industrial cooling unit similar to the Coleman electric coolers but an industrial unit built for life and death 99.9999% reliability. Alone, it cools about 40 degrees F below ambient. It took 4 days for a 2 quart block of ice to melt. By incorporating both units and the practice of swapping ice packs I have a 45qt freezer/fridge, a 45qt fridge/cooler, and a picnic sized cooler all of which are superbly insulated. This gives me a versatility and flexibility to allow me my obsession with food. Power consumption while running both is high and I will need to keep that in mind when planning food storage. (These are available for $100 through Habitat for Humanity Re-Stores in Raleigh. If interested you might contact the manager of your local Re-Store to see if you can acquire one of these.)

The discussions regarding these sorts of topics so often focus on anecdotal stories and technical specifications. Both of these sorts of posts are very helpful. What I don't see discussed enough is the intended use by the poster/user/consumer.

Some questions that I think need to be answered before anyone can really suggest a unit or even type.

How much power do you have to run any unit?
How long do you hope to run the unit off of solar+battery ONLY?
How long do you plan to be out? Weekends? A week or two? Months?
How much refrigeration do YOU really NEED? Freezer space?
What is your budget?
How much access will you have to supplemental ice? Freeze half gallons of water at home? Buying ice on the road when you go to town every few days? Pack a freezer and head in to the bush for a few weeks?

Quality, IMHO, is the deciding factor in all of this. I would NOT buy a Coleman Electric Cooler due to quality reasons but if you can find a decent replacement fo rit they can be handy to have. Just because you have it doesn't mean you must run it non-stop at all times.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

If my math is correct, amp hours for a solar panel are at the panel's ~ 18.9v output, not 12v.  The better alternative to a 12v compressor fridge is running a 120v appliance off of an inverter, which need not be huge . . .

Solar panels are spec'd in watts which is voltage independent.  Amp hours is the number of amps supplied in time.  And you are correct in that panel specs (Voc & Isc) are measured at the panel.

You will need to add the inefficiency of the inverter to your energy budget, which can be 5% - 20% of rating and will need to be on constantly (unless you get an expensive auto on inverter).

I have a request if it's okay with the OP.
Can we add 120 volt cube refrigerators in the 1.5 to 2.0 cubic foot range to the discussion for comparison's sake?

Do you have a specific frig to compare?  The problem with small dorm type refrigerators is that they run the gamut of 'will last a couple of semesters' to 'household appliance standards'.

cube fridges have rubber feet on the compressor. not sure how much dampening any other fridge could have but there's been little if any breakdown issues reported. but for $60 you can go through about 10 of them before you break even.

The rubber feet on cube fridge's compressor are for sound suppression; they will give some vibration support.  12V RV compressors are designed to withstand shock and vibration (think miles of washboard road or a boat pounding in heavy seas).  There have been a number of reports of dorm fridges failing on other sites (sites that deal with boats and campers that don't stay on paved roads).

 . . . Some questions that I think need to be answered before anyone can really suggest a unit or even type.

I'd like to add two more questions:
  - How important is your refrigeration?  Do you have medications or dietary needs that require temperature control?
  - What kind of driving do you do?  Hiway, lots of washboard roads, or serious off-road.

 

[UptownSport]

cube fridges have rubber feet on the compressor. not sure how much dampening any other fridge could have but there's been little if any breakdown issues reported. but for $60 you can go through about 10 of them before you break even.

LoL, good point!  Said with all respect to a previous poster, there's reports of 110v lasting- But, in a brief search, multiple reports of the 12v failing in a couple years.
I'm new, but I'd guess most people here would hardly have $400 for a tiny 12v, letalone the risk it could fail in a few years.

Cube fridges also have little freezer. and a 1/5yr warranty at WalMarts everywhere you go

You'd get more efficiency from the 12v?

 

[sephson]

Do you have a specific frig to compare?  The problem with small dorm type refrigerators is that they run the gamut of 'will last a couple of semesters' to 'household appliance standards'.

No, nothing specific. I'm just curious to see how they compare to their 12 volt equivalents in the realm of power consumption.

 

[highdesertranger]

for me it wasn't even close. the dorm fridge sucked a ton of power while the 12v sipped power. I don't have any numbers because this was all done before this forum even existed and I just wanted something that worked I didn't care about numbers. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

I've seen detailed posts with numbers.

Even the most efficient EPA rated dorm fridge with inverter used 2-3x the electricity compared to the same size Danfoss-style compressor unit.

And brands like Engel do routinely run many years trouble-free.

Budget $1 a day, compared to buying ice.

If I needed one but didn't have the money, I would certainly make saving up for one a high priority.

Not buying pre-prepared foods, cooking a large pot and being able to put the leftovers by, etc saves a heck of a lot.

Just getting your drinks from discount mart instead of convenience stores will pay for the nicest unit many times over.

And bargains do come up on Craigs. . .

 

[jonsun]

if you have a space heater of a 1000w, would it be better to run it on 12v or 120v?

there's detailed posts here for 3.7cu ft unit using ~50A a day. Mine is running steady with overcast on a 80w panel. there's youtube vids of measured usage that all seem to agree with the rest. In fact the only thing I've seen against them so far are claims here of "I tried it once."

there's no free energy.

 

[John61CT]

I have no idea what the space heater analogy has to do with anything.

I assume you mean 50AH per day, and you think that's not much?

It's much better than you'd get with most cheap dorm fridges, but at least double the usage of a 12V.

Fact is with grid power so crazy cheap, mfg has little incentive to spend more on incremental efficiency.

And I am assuming indefinite boondocking, and that 80w panel would not be getting the bank back to 100% many days in most places, maybe in the southwest?

In any case do what you like, long as you're making your decision now fully informed.