Plywood alternative?

[Txjaybird]

These cots are pretty nice, comfy, and about the size you're looking for:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Comfortsmart-Folding-Camping-Cot/20594108

If I'm building a bed from scratch, my preferred method is to build the frame out of metal conduit, and then string it with rope to support whatever mattress you decide to use.  This method should make you an extremely durable, yet lightweight bed that should last a lifetime.  Using this method, it is pretty simple and easy to construct a lightweight bed of any length, width, and height to fit your space.

Any hardware type store, or Home  Depot type store should have everything you need to make thee frame, then I use dollar store rope to string them.

With only slightly more difficulty, you could make it foldable as well.

Another option is to pick up a used Hollywood style bed frame such as this one:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/fuo/5462808169.html

Totally adjustable for width, and then you can string it with rope to support a foam mattress.  You  can add conduit or pipe to the legs, to make it higher for added storage underneath.

what diamater [ *&^^%&*!]  what size conduit do you think is the best & what about supports in the middle on the long sides?            i also see a hanging bed in a shade tree.........U R Awesome!......thanks TJB

 

[SoulRaven]

I think you're in the Seattle area if I'm not mistaken. You might check if any boat builders are using a product called Nida Core. Maybe they could prep a scrap piece for you cheaply. It's basically a honey comb panel that when covered with fiberglass resin becomes very rigid and strong. It's used to build everything from boats to semi sleeper cabs to expedition campers. I have friends who's camper is built from it. The wife is not weak, but also not a muscle woman. She probably weighs about 120 - 130 lbs. She can lift a 4 x 8 sheet of it over her head and hold it there with 1 hand. The that same sheet can support her standing on it while the sheet is supported by 2 saw horses with very little deflection. I think it's rather expensive to buy new, which is why I suggest looking for someone already using it that may have a scrap. It seems ideal for your application, if you can find a piece you can afford.

Looks like Nida Core was purchased by 3M 5 years ago, and i wonder if they re-branded it because it's difficult to find upon first glance.

Is it at all similar to the Lexan multiwall fiberglass sheet?http://www.homedepot.com/p/LEXAN-Th...02473?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053 I was getting in touch with Home Depot to see if I could special order this in a smaller dimensions for cheaper.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LEXAN-Th...02473?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

 

[SoulRaven]

Ugh, sorry the link got all messed up and I was interrupted before I could edit it.

 

[SoulRaven]

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Bitty wrote:

What's metal conduit? Could you describe what you mean about "stringing it with rope"? My back problems require pretty stiff support, would this setup provide that?

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Metal conduit (EMT) is a lot like the round metal tubing that is used for lawn chairs, chaise lounges etc.  There is a good possibility that a place like Home Depot will even cut it in the lengths you need for you.  The 1" conduit I normally purchase comes in 10 foot lengths.  You would need a total of 3 for your project @ $6.40 ea.

For the corners you have many choices, I usually go with the pre curved 1.25" elbow, which will simply slip over the 1" sides and ends.  Double check the fit before purchase though, because there have been times when I needed to go to the larger 1.5" ones. Regardless, this will give you nice smooth rounded corners!  The 4 corners are about $4.20 ea.

Next you will need 6 Tee's for the legs.  1.25" PVC Tees x 6 @ $1.48  Finally I use el cheapo crutch tips for the ends of the conduit where they meet the floor.  I think they're about $3-$4 per set of 2, and you'll need a total of 6 tips.  You can probably get cheaper tips, I just prefer the crutch tips because they feel like they'll last forever.

I generally buy my rope at the dollar stores.  It is a little bit gamblers choice, one time you might get 50 feet for $1.00 and the next time you might get 100 feet for $1.00.  Regardless $3.00 worth of rope should fix you up.

You should come in at a little under $50 going by the prices on the Home Depot website.

Next you will want to string the rope lengthwise every 6", then do the same width wise every 6" as well, weaving it over then under the rope going the opposite direction.  You can string this rope as tight as you wish.  I prefer it a little softer, but the choice is yours.  An X of rope between the legs on each end will stabilize them to prevent collapse, while keeping them foldable.

Give a holler if you need more!

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Tjaybird wrote:

what diamater [ *&^^%&*!]  what size conduit do you think is the best & what about supports in the middle on the long sides?          Big Grin   i also see a hanging bed in a shade tree.........U R Awesome!......thanks TJB

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I use the 1" for the ends, sides, and legs, then use 1.25" for the pre bent corner elbows.  So the 1" pieces just slide nicely into them.  Since we're stringing it with rope, that will hold the ends, sides, and corners all together on it's own accord.

Then I use 1.25" PVC T's to connect the legs, with rubber tips where the legs touch the floor.  If your floor is uneven, the length of each leg can be adjusted to make your bed level.

Give a holler if you need more!

 

[myway_1]

"Next you will want to string the rope lengthwise every 6", then do the same width wise every 6" as well, weaving it over then under the rope going the opposite direction. You can string this rope as tight as you wish. I prefer it a little softer, but the choice is yours. An X of rope between the legs on each end will stabilize them to prevent collapse, while keeping them foldable."

Do you tie off every run of rope or do you just wrap it around the conduit and only tie off twice lengthwise and twice width wise? What king of knot do you use? How do you keep the X of rope between the legs from sliding?

 

[AndrewB]

Poor man's fiberglass is using canvas (drop cloth from lowes or fabric store or bed sheets, etc) + wood glue. Coat your standard blue or pink foam board (2 or 3 in thick) with a layer or 2 of canvas soaked through with wood glue. People make teardrop trailers from foam + poor man's fiberglass all the time: http://www.tnttt.com/viewforum.php?f=55 They normally use titebond 2 for the outside, and regular glue for indoors.

 

[LeeRevell]

Sounds kind of like the "doped fabric" used on vintage aircraft.   

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Bitty, take a look at the bed shown in this project:

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/live-conversion-van/

It's the fifth picture down.

With three bars, just set into the ends and able to be easily lifted out, you could then lay multiple smaller pieces of plywood or OSB board across them and it would be easy to disassemble the bed when needed.

Regards
John

 

[masterplumber]

Looks like Nida Core was purchased by 3M 5 years ago, and i wonder if they re-branded it because it's difficult to find upon first glance.

Is it at all similar to the Lexan multiwall fiberglass sheet?http://www.homedepot.com/p/LEXAN-Th...02473?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053 I was getting in touch with Home Depot to see if I could special order this in a smaller dimensions for cheaper.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LEXAN-Th...02473?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

From what I can find the Lexan product is completely different. It appears to be more of a glazing product (think greenhouse roofing). I didn't find any Lexan fiberglass sheet - just polycarbonate - so I may have been looking at the wrong product. This is the product I was talking about. 
http://www.lbifiberglass.com/NIDA/nida.html

 

[sephson]

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Bitty wrote:
Metal conduit (EMT) is a lot like the round metal tubing that is used for lawn chairs, chaise lounges etc.  There is a good possibility that a place like Home Depot will even cut it in the lengths you need for you.

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Or you could wander over to the plumbing section and get a tubing cutter. With a little practice they make cutting EMT conduit a breeze. The trick is to tighten a little, go once around, tighten a little more, go once around, rinse and repeat until it cuts through. The one Home Depot stocks that'll cut 1" conduit is a little under $30. You can get something comparable from Harbor Freight for about $5.
[img=400x400]http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pr...91-c2c5-4f62-b5ba-24430f8ff57b_1000.jpg[/img]

 

[SoulRaven]

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone! I'm blown away by how many suggestions I've received, and I'm in the process of following up on several of them to see what might pan out.

Do you tie off every run of rope or do you just wrap it around the conduit and only tie off twice lengthwise and twice width wise? What king of knot do you use? How do you keep the X of rope between the legs from sliding?

I'd love to know this as well!

Poor man's fiberglass is using canvas (drop cloth from lowes or fabric store or bed sheets, etc) + wood glue. Coat your standard blue or pink foam board (2 or 3 in thick) with a layer or 2 of canvas soaked through with wood glue. People make teardrop trailers from foam + poor man's fiberglass all the time: http://www.tnttt.com/viewforum.php?f=55 They normally use titebond 2 for the outside, and regular glue for indoors.

Good to know, thanks. I'm severely sensitive to most adhesives, especially for sleeping with my face near. Would hoof glue work? Are there any similar less toxic alternatives? I figured out the other day that this would work with corrugated plastic instead of poor man's fiberglass, though the price would be about $70 for the foam board and two pieces of corrugated plastic, one for either side. One concern with the design is the screws ripping out of it. Do others who build with it run screws into it like wood or use adhesives instead when you need to attach something, e.g. legs to the platform?

I'm also revisiting whether building with wood might be a possibility after all. Things with family are always shaky but currently on an upswing and my dad has some carpentry tools he's showing me the ropes of. Held and used a 7 1/2 circular saw the other day, though in order to feel comfortable with it I'd need a smaller blade and some sort of clamps to secure the wood. He also said he'd show me the jigsaw. We'll see...

I feel like apologizing for going in so many different directions at once, but there are so many different considerations I'm still not sure which will turn out to be the option that makes the most sense. You all have definitely speeded up the brainstorming process!!

 

[SoulRaven]

Please keep in mind that I'm no artist, but hopefully this will help...

 

[Konaexpress]

Good to know, thanks. I'm severely sensitive to most adhesives, especially for sleeping with my face near. Would hoof glue work? Are there any similar less toxic alternatives? I figured out the other day that this would work with corrugated plastic instead of poor man's fiberglass, though the price would be about $70 for the foam board and two pieces of corrugated plastic, one for either side. One concern with the design is the screws ripping out of it. Do others who build with it run screws into it like wood or use adhesives instead when you need to attach something, e.g. legs to the platform?

I'm also revisiting whether building with wood might be a possibility after all. Things with family are always shaky but currently on an upswing and my dad has some carpentry tools he's showing me the ropes of. Held and used a 7 1/2 circular saw the other day, though in order to feel comfortable with it I'd need a smaller blade and some sort of clamps to secure the wood. He also said he'd show me the jigsaw. We'll see...

I feel like apologizing for going in so many different directions at once, but there are so many different considerations I'm still not sure which will turn out to be the option that makes the most sense. You all have definitely speeded up the brainstorming process!!

Hahaha! I know someone will disagree with me but it is election season and I see a ton of election signs out ther made from plastic.  You could use this to sandwich the foam but put wood blocks in where you plan to put bolts.

John

 

[myway_1]

Please keep in mind that I'm no artist, but hopefully this will help...

Thanks so much. I am going to give this a try. I'm not vandwelling yet but getting used to sleeping in my future bed seems like good preparation.

 

[AndrewB]

Good to know, thanks. I'm severely sensitive to most adhesives, especially for sleeping with my face near. Would hoof glue work? Are there any similar less toxic alternatives? I figured out the other day that this would work with corrugated plastic instead of poor man's fiberglass, though the price would be about $70 for the foam board and two pieces of corrugated plastic, one for either side. One concern with the design is the screws ripping out of it. Do others who build with it run screws into it like wood or use adhesives instead when you need to attach something, e.g. legs to the platform?

No idea about the hoof glue, but I imagine it would. So long as it A) attaches the cloth to the foam and B) stiffens the cloth dramatically. I would do a test piece and see how well it holds up.

Also, from quick reading, hoof glue doesn't like to get wet, so under mattress might have issues from condensation.

 

[myway_1]

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I generally buy my rope at the dollar stores.  It is a little bit gamblers choice, one time you might get 50 feet for $1.00 and the next time you might get 100 feet for $1.00.  Regardless $3.00 worth of rope should fix you up.

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What size rope do you use?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I was hoping to copy BigT's bed but I've hit a snag--plywood is too heavy for me. Even if I got the bed built, I wouldn't be able to remove it as needed. And considering it's been necessary 3 times already in less than a year, this is something I absolutely must factor into my build.

Are there any suggested alternatives to plywood for this project? My research yields a variety of possibilities, but they all seem lie they would require more of a frame beneath to support the platform. 

Just had a brain fart:

Have you considered plastic totes (bins, storage containers, ...) for support under you?  Tipped upside down they will support 180 lbs. (just tried standing on one of mine).  Four of mine, positioned side by side would give you 60" x 24".  Larger bins would give you more length/width at the cost of supporting less weight.  A 3" piece of foam on top should be all you would need but could put a thin piece of plywood or 3/4" formular on top to spread your weight out more.  Might be able to use the bins right side up also, just have to experiment.

-- Spiff

 

[gcal]

I was hoping to copy BigT's bed but I've hit a snag--plywood is too heavy for me. Even if I got the bed built, I wouldn't be able to remove it as needed. And considering it's been necessary 3 times already in less than a year, this is something I absolutely must factor into my build.

The hardware is fine, since even though it's heavy it's small and the legs can be removed and carried separately. I can do bulky and lightweight, or small and heavy, but not bulky and heavy. The current folding massage table, smallest size they come in, is about at my limit (can't get the weight anytime soon, sorry). I would hope to reduce it, or at the very least need to keep that about the upper limit.

Are there any suggested alternatives to plywood for this project? My research yields a variety of possibilities, but they all seem lie they would require more of a frame beneath to support the platform. :-/

Plywood in small, workable pieces that assemble and disassemble into the bed you want. Sure, it is more of a pain to move. But everything is a compromise.

 

[SoulRaven]

What size rope do you use?

FWIW if I end up going with this design I plan to use some sort of nylon or polypropylene webbing as suggested earlier, e.g. one of these. I would feel better about the supportive material being stronger and lying flatter, and the cost isn't prohibitive.

Just had a brain fart:

Have you considered plastic totes (bins, storage containers, ...) for support under you?  Tipped upside down they will support 180 lbs. (just tried standing on one of mine).  Four of mine, positioned side by side would give you 60" x 24".  Larger bins would give you more length/width at the cost of supporting less weight.  A 3" piece of foam on top should be all you would need but could put a thin piece of plywood or 3/4" formular on top to spread your weight out more.  Might be able to use the bins right side up also, just have to experiment.

-- Spiff

Thanks! Actually my first "vandewlling" (cardwelling) bed ever was comprised solely of bins with a very thin board laid over them. A few ended up breaking, but the main issue is under the bed is about 60% of all my storage, and if only counting storage I access often, it's more like 90%. When bins form the support of a bed they become difficult to access, which is fine if all your deep storage stuff is there but not so much if you need to access it a dozen or more times per day. There's not much room in a minivan to begin with but what is there needs to be as accessible as possible!

Plywood in small, workable pieces that assemble and disassemble into the bed you want. Sure, it is more of a pain to move. But everything is a compromise.

I appreciate the idea. A "pain to move" for me can put me out an entire week, so unfortunately it's not an option for me. I'm forced to find solutions to what others deem a small annoyance, simply because it's disabling for me personally. Now I could simply build my life around "well if I want to move that others will have to help me" but I choose to make a solid attempt towards making my life doable for myself to manage independently. I have found myself at the mercy of strangers and known abusers way too many times in my life, for reasons similar to realizing I can't move the bed myself and asking for help, or attempting to move it anyway and perhaps succeeding but then requiring assistance in order to eat for the next several days. I might not be able to solve everything that leads to such scenarios but I'm now quite hopeful that a satisfactory solution to this one is achievable--one that does not compromise on what's most important to me.

 

[SoulRaven]

What size rope do you use?

I'm not sure of the exact size, but it's not much bigger than paracord.  Paracord will too, but it does stretch more.